Is this game worth enough to have a ladder? I own it, I just don't think it's a really competitive game. When there's games like WarCraft III, StarCraft: Brood War, and Command & Conquer: Generals (granted, that still needs SOME balancing issues), why would someone play this one? For one thing, every side has the exact same units, with each side up to 8 unique units. Well whoop-de doo, all of the "unique" units are variations of the original unit.
I like the National Border system, but it also gets rid of some tactics, like offensive building. Also, supply wagons get very tedious, and you always have to cover your entire force. If TWL DOES start a Rise of Nations division, it sure as hell better not be a deathmatch ladder. I will KILL myself before I join a deathmatch ladder for this game. Deathmatch games turn out to be "Dur hur, I can reach the information age faster than you can!", and ruin a LOT of strategies. ---
Yup, and I have played each of those games. Like I've said before, RON is easily the second best(in my opinion) RTS I've played with the first being Starcraft of course.
chewy, my guess is you aren't very good at this game mos tpeople that i play that are noobs think it is just a race to the information age, boy is that a stupid idea...i beat them before they get to the enlightenment,
i mean come on, i hate people who think you can't attack until you are done upgrading, that is the worst way to play.
THough i do agree just a normal deathmatch style ladder would be strange, i mean...you can't take advantage of diplomacy "Alright, we all allied, VICTORY....oh wait, so who won this one?"
I guess what you could do is a deathmatch style game but with AI playing as well....its like You versus someone else versus AI versus AI (4 person sounds pretty good) that way you can take advantage of diplomacy (most likely if someone allies with both AI they will win...well depends on the level AI, 2 moderates are pretty easy)
But still, you need to rethink the way you play this game if you think it is just a race to information
i mean, those other RTS games you mentioned, espiecially generals are well suited for deathmatch...heck that is all you can do in them, just create a bunch of units and kill each other...its kinda sad, you wanna take about boring game strategically....heck, i don't know what there is to do in generals besides just build up bigger then the enemy and just out number them...
oh and the border system, it prevents it from being just a mindless killing game because you actually have to think...running an army of villigers and building fortresses in their base wouldn't be fun nor would it be that hard (assuming you had an army to back em up) the border system creates strategy, finding weak points (an unprotected border town) and hitting them where it hurts...or in a early-mid game attack (gunpowder age) go at them with a two prong attack to distract their forces while you bite into their border with fortresses and maybe a city that you take...
oh and supply wagons also makes the game less of a mindless attack until you overwhelm them type games, its also a form of defense, you can't attack unless your prepared unless you rush...and they dont have attrition. I don't think i can count the number of times i have defeated someone when they still had like 40 percent of the map and plenty of resources...which brings up another point, being able to win via just taking the capital, something that again adds another layer to defeating your enemy.
Oh and dont' even get me started with the unit numbers...you bring up warcraft3? ha, ya sure their units are all unique but each team has like 10, woo...what variety oh and the unique units in RoN half the time are what i base my strategy on...when to attack, when not to attack (once i figure out who the enemy is)....i mean, why wait till the information age when you are at your prime in the enlightenment? but then again, sometimes it is better to wait like with russians and germans to get their tanks and infantry (well, with germans i usually still do a heavy infantry rush once i get barbarians)
A ladder for this game would be great but it would have to be create to take advantage of all the different angles in this game.
EDIT: Oh and iwon't be surprised if half of this stuff doesn't make sense or is gramatically and spellingly (not a word ) horrible, i'm sick, i'm tired and its late Post edited by w00k-m0nEy at 7/20/2003 3:13:43 AM
*shrugs* Alright, then. When I said "rush to the information age", I was talking about Deathmatch games. I know it's not like that in non-deathmatch games. I actually kind of like Rise of Nations, it's very interesting in many different aspects. ---
If TWL adds RoN SMAK is going to join it. We have c10 members that play it a lot and love it. None of the other RTS games have caught our attention, as a clan, but we love to play RoN. Hope to see it added and added soon.
Who knew...there is about 3 HiFi with it also. One thing to consider with RON vs other RTS's I've played. You can get a Wonder Victory. Hell, I've played 2v2's where we've won just buy taking over most of the map. There are alot of ways to win this game, the key is just developing it. The design of the game alone helps to minimize the "rush" technique of play.
totalcarnage, but at the same time a rush is a very good way to win because most people don't expect it....i mean, a good ancient age rush, while it probably won't destroy them completly (if they garrison their villagers) will pretty much secure you a victory (in a 1 vs 1) because when they garrison their villagers they aren't making resources...and you are even better off if they haven't built a barracks...but if they have, then they are spending what resources they have on units....so what i do is i keep attacking until they are out of resources (stop creating units) then while their villagers are still garrisoned i destroy their farms and wood camp....so if they are out of resources for units hopefully and most likely they can't build a camp or farm to make resources without scouting and finding ruins...giving me PLENTY of time to cover for the resources i spent on the attack and get way ahead of them.
I never liked wonder victory, i build wonders for the bonuses not to win...i want to use the bonuses when i play i usually just turn it off, but the territory victory, though it never feels satisfying, is a good way to win...on ike 70 percent territory victory i always feel so bad because i didn't actually completly annihilate them...makes me want to cry
I guess my point is that this game gives you more than one way to skin a cat. Something that is missing in many games. Its perhaps the one thing I hated about Empire Earth. If you knew how to rush you where unstoppable. This game will be good competitively up to 4v4. Most likely we'll have 1v1 and 2v2 to start.
One other note. I played a guy once that I was laying the smack down on. I almost had a territory victory on him and was seriously devestating his team. I was alone and it was him and a teammate against me. I got an early rush on his teammate and was holding him down, but he was later holding me pretty good. I was so hell bent on wasting him I didn't even worry about anything else. The guy wondered out on me. I could have screamed. I think I had like 10% to go to take them on territory Its why I say, you have to look at all avenues. Its also when I learned there is an advantage to the Egyptians Two wonders per city.
yep, egyptian is one of my favorites, don't they also get them an age earlier? i hate it when i really want things like statue of liberty (love the free upgrades) but i see some egypt guy building it before he is even in the age...
one of my other favorites, i dont' know why, is nubian...i love the merchant bonus...my economy always rocks with nubian and i usually by the end (if it lasts to information against a tough 1vs1 enemy) can have like 3 war factories and 3 barracks and 2 support places (artillery and anti-air places) running on infinite without it hurting my economy
Yes, unlike Age of Kings inwhich you could simply move close to someone and build barracks and rash em, RoN's borders creates a whole new system of play. Attrition, supply wagons, forts and expanding your cities is key. Very balanced game.
But as for a ladder for RoN what do you use as victory conditions? Conquest? Capitol? Wonder? Territory? All of the above?????
all of the above, as far as victory goes, a person should be able to have flexibility against their opponent, theonly one that is difficult is wonder victory...you'd have to decide what is a good number so that the enemy can counter it (build more wonders so that the opponent can't build them or just destroy the opponents, because remember, when a wonder is destroyed it can't be rebuilt by anyone)