How badly did Mittens fuck up?

A secretly filmed video has emerged showing Mitt Romney disparaging Barack Obama voters at a private donor dinner.

The Republican nominee is shown saying the 47% of Americans who back the president do not pay income tax and would never vote for him.

"I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives," Mr Romney says.

In a late-night appearance, Mr Romney said his remarks were not "elegantly stated", but did not retract them.

"This is the same message I give to people in public," he said in response to the video, released by liberal investigative magazine Mother Jones.

Earlier, his campaign said Mr Romney "wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy".

"As the [former Massachusetts] governor has made clear all year, he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people who are on food stamps, nearly one in six Americans in poverty, and the 23 million Americans who are struggling to find work," spokeswoman Gail Gitcho said in a statement.



[The 47%] are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them”


The Obama campaign was quick to pounce.

"It's hard to serve as president for all Americans when you've disdainfully written off half the nation," Jim Messina, Mr Obama's campaign manager, said in a statement.

The BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says that this may prove to be a significant setback for Mr Romney, who has been relentless characterised by his political opponents as privileged and out of touch.

Also on Monday, Mr Romney's campaign unveiled a significant reworking of its strategy less than two months before election day.

Campaign advisers told the US media on Monday that Mr Romney would speak more on his specific policy proposals in the coming days and weeks.

Until now his message to voters has largely consisted of repeated attacks on President Barack Obama's economic record.

More after the jump
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19631430

So considering I fall under the 47%, I must be a freeloading socialist because I get returns on my taxes and I need the gubment to bail me out. I wonder how he's expecting to garner votes from the actual middle class and lower? He's going to need to pull some disillusioned Obama voters, and the independents...but this sure as hell isn't helping.

Mittens just gifted Obama a damn motherlode of quotes to hit on for the next 2 months. If this is "off the cuff" as he put it, makes Palin seems palatable. She may have been a moron, but she was a moron who at least said and did what she believed in, unlike I'll-do-anything-for-a-vote-Mittens.

Mittens is already having to deal with being seen as out of touch ala:

"$200,000 and $250,000 income earners are middle class"

And just for proofs, this was apparently shot at a fundraiser from a equity firm Marc Leder


Post edited by hackshot. at 9/18/2012 12:02:15 AM

I guess telling the truth gets you in trouble in politics....WHO KNEW!!??

Romney 2012
_______________________________________________________________
"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making it easy for them in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it" Ben Franklin

Originally posted by: Smiling Canadian
I guess telling the truth gets you in trouble in politics....WHO KNEW!!??

Truth, most times...but people are willing to believe and go along with it if you don't change your story depending on whom the story is told to.

I mean fuck, mittens is already polling lower than Obama and he just purposefully alienated just under half of the population. A fair portion of that 47% are people that will vote for Romney, you know the ones in the shitholes of West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, South/North Carolina. Those are the white folk that Romney is trying desperately to try to get vote.

I don't mention the inner cities because they aren't his voter base to begin with (and yes, I acknowledge the fact that they are freeloaders) but speaking in absolutes will get you absolutely no where, especially not the WH.

Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Romney 2012

hackshot, you can't even quote Romney properly. He didnt say middle class is 200K - 250K, It was that & lower. At least get it straight.

Not to mention, he's only speaking the truth. If people choose to see him telling the truth then there's not much hope for those people.

& how do you fall into this category? How did we have to bail you out?

Originally posted by: Stoneymontana
hackshot, you can't even quote Romney properly. He didnt say middle class is 200K - 250K, It was that & lower. At least get it straight.

Not to mention, he's only speaking the truth. If people choose to see him telling the truth then there's not much hope for those people.

& how do you fall into this category? How did we have to bail you out?

I'll grant you the middle class number, since it was supposed to be snake bait. Keep in mind, that there are people in your neck of the woods that can't even fathom making $200k a year. Get out of the cities of South Carolina, there's some REAL poor sections, of whom you can see at night.

I fall under Mittens category in that the IRS doesn't want my money. I withhold a portion of my paychecks only to have the government return it. I also got the benefit of having health insurance under my parents until the age of 26 or when I get married, which is extremely helpful in allowing me to save money for when I'll need it the most.

I also get the benefit of taxpayer money to conduct research, as does my fiancee. She gets to do research on the search for extraterrestrial life. I'm assisting and conducting research in maize development and turning switchgrass into a more viable biofuel than corn. Need I continue?

Edit: Not that I want to start another thread where the typical players are going to go at each other, inevitably ending up with Snake calling someone a kid, stryk; stones; pixel; cobalt exasperatedly trying to outdo another, and etc.

The question at hand is, how is this going to impact Mittens going forward? Will it hurt him in the long run? Will he recover and pull back (remember hes still within the margin of error if only barely) even? Or will he do the seemingly difficult task of winning?

Imo, the comments will only solidify solid Romney voters (or, turn them apathetic to Romney) and will serve to turn off the moderate independent vote. The major swing states are states in which a lot of people fell on hard times come the recession.

It's very difficult to seem in touch with these people (who found minimum wage jobs flipping burgers at McD's to pay bills) when you say things like this behind closed doors.

The OP has an undertone of being incredulously insensitive, but the question still is, is this an irreparable mistake?
Post edited by hackshot. at 9/18/2012 1:02:49 AM

unfortunately for mitt supporters, while they would like to pretend people that pay no federal income tax are just a bunch of poor black and minority folk that would already vote for obama, these people include students, elderly, soldiers and a decent amount of poor whites.

and while many people don't pay federal income tax, they pay taxes on the state level and federal payroll taxes, etc...

it's a bit more complex than the right wing partisan spin.

the release of more video footage should be fun, where Romney derides latinos by saying if he was Mexican he would win this election.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The right is more virtuous than the left. They have twice as many virtues because they have double the standards.

Originally posted by: hackshot.

Originally posted by: Stoneymontana
hackshot, you can't even quote Romney properly. He didnt say middle class is 200K - 250K, It was that & lower. At least get it straight.

Not to mention, he's only speaking the truth. If people choose to see him telling the truth then there's not much hope for those people.

& how do you fall into this category? How did we have to bail you out?

I'll grant you the middle class number, since it was supposed to be snake bait. Keep in mind, that there are people in your neck of the woods that can't even fathom making $200k a year. Get out of the cities of South Carolina, there's some REAL poor sections, of whom you can see at night.

I fall under Mittens category in that the IRS doesn't want my money. I withhold a portion of my paychecks only to have the government return it. I also got the benefit of having health insurance under my parents until the age of 26 or when I get married, which is extremely helpful in allowing me to save money for when I'll need it the most.

I also get the benefit of taxpayer money to conduct research, as does my fiancee. She gets to do research on the search for extraterrestrial life. I'm assisting and conducting research in maize development and turning switchgrass into a more viable biofuel than corn. Need I continue?

I know exactly what's in this state. But this state always goes Republican also.

Originally posted by: Stoneymontana
I know exactly what's in this state. But this state always goes Republican also.

And the reasons are scope for a whole different thread.

So?

Originally posted by: hackshot.

Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Romney 2012

Reminds me of this thread.

Funny how Obama is basically tied with Romney in polls where Democrats are being over-sampled and the media is blatantly rooting for the pres.

Not fucked over at all. Couple weeks to blow over before the debates conquer the undecided, it's just another microgate. I wish the candidates would start openly arguing more than just a month before the election. Maybe even have enough time to converse before the American public? Guess I'll keep dreaming.

... we could have a subject-matter expert and everything!... ah fuck it all.

Originally posted by: Cocytus
So?

Kind of my thoughts.

I know that hackshot added a touch of spin, but the raw video comments aren't exactly shockers.

And its kind of shameless how Mitt's coverage is so blatantly cherry picked by the media just like this section of video is cherry picked.

My other thought is that the ME situation must not be reflecting well on Obama that the October Suprise has been sprung a little early.
Post edited by Stryk at 9/18/2012 6:44:11 AM

Originally posted by: hackshot.

Originally posted by: Stoneymontana
hackshot, you can't even quote Romney properly. He didnt say middle class is 200K - 250K, It was that & lower. At least get it straight.

Not to mention, he's only speaking the truth. If people choose to see him telling the truth then there's not much hope for those people.

& how do you fall into this category? How did we have to bail you out?

I'll grant you the middle class number, since it was supposed to be snake bait. Keep in mind, that there are people in your neck of the woods that can't even fathom making $200k a year. Get out of the cities of South Carolina, there's some REAL poor sections, of whom you can see at night.

I fall under Mittens category in that the IRS doesn't want my money. I withhold a portion of my paychecks only to have the government return it. I also got the benefit of having health insurance under my parents until the age of 26 or when I get married, which is extremely helpful in allowing me to save money for when I'll need it the most.

I also get the benefit of taxpayer money to conduct research, as does my fiancee. She gets to do research on the search for extraterrestrial life. I'm assisting and conducting research in maize development and turning switchgrass into a more viable biofuel than corn. Need I continue?

Edit: Not that I want to start another thread where the typical players are going to go at each other, inevitably ending up with Snake calling someone a kid, stryk; stones; pixel; cobalt exasperatedly trying to outdo another, and etc.

The question at hand is, how is this going to impact Mittens going forward? Will it hurt him in the long run? Will he recover and pull back (remember hes still within the margin of error if only barely) even? Or will he do the seemingly difficult task of winning?

Imo, the comments will only solidify solid Romney voters (or, turn them apathetic to Romney) and will serve to turn off the moderate independent vote. The major swing states are states in which a lot of people fell on hard times come the recession.

It's very difficult to seem in touch with these people (who found minimum wage jobs flipping burgers at McD's to pay bills) when you say things like this behind closed doors.

The OP has an undertone of being incredulously insensitive, but the question still is, is this an irreparable mistake?

Trying to preemptively disparage any comment i say kind of telegraphs the need for you to carefully frame this whole story.

For example, the 47% he's talking about are Obama voters, then describes who makes them up. He's not saying all people who don't pay taxes vote for Obama. But you need to spin his comments to ensure its taken that way.

The analogy is if Mitt said 'People in England speak English and have bat teeth' and then you trying to make sure its taken as Mitt said 'All people who speak English have bad teeth and live in England'.
Post edited by Stryk at 9/18/2012 7:29:02 AM

I totally agree with Mitt... although I would say the number is less than 47%... I also disagree that ALL of the people in that voting block are dependent on entitlements... You haved a lot of batshit crazy rich people who support Mitt... look at Hollywood, not an entitled person there. Divas, yes... but not dependent on the Gov't for food, transportation, and televisions.

On the other hand, Obama can say the same thing about Rmoney Romney. There's a loyal contingent of people who will vote Rmoney Romney just because they are batshit crazy as well. Different goals, and don't get your hopes up that Rmoney Romney will be fiscally conservative... he smells just as bad as Owebama... but there's that loyal block of voters...

Each candidate has to woo the independents. I don't like either of them too much. I can't even look out for #1 (ME) because I think both of them are pretty lousy and both of them are bad for the country.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap

Each candidate has to woo the independents. I don't like either of them too much. I can't even look out for #1 (ME) because I think both of them are pretty lousy and both of them are bad for the country.

qft. The first past the post voting system needs to go. Too bad the American public can't change that without another uprising. We'll never have 3rd parties taking hold until we get some sort of proportional voting system.

@Stryk, not you to me, you to cobalt or pixel. How is talking to a brick wall going to get you anywhere. You may as well be talking to Snake about Muslims.

I'm not sure what is so shocking about this video. Oh....right, it's political season, where intellectually honest discussions are replaced by the media masturbating to sound bites while citizens follow suit....even more so than usual.

What he said is consistent with Republican primary rhetoric. So saying that is not shocking at all to people who were paying attention then. But a general election audience is different than one during the primary. Romney has had some difficult moments that have hurt him a little (Europe trip, protest response, etc.), but they haven't been a killer for him because he is desciplined in staying on message. What these difficulties do is reinforce opposition attacks against him. The story they are painting of Romney gains more substance in the eyes of voters whenever attention is drawn to these kinds of comments. So it certainly doesn't help Romney with swing voters. But I don't think it helps that much with the base because they have heard it before.

Considering the setting of these comments (a private meeting of donors) Mitt's tone is one that I would expect. He is addressing people who already support him and want to give him cash. He is preaching to the choir. As long as he says what they are waiting to hear he will get their money. He needs their money to fund his campaign. So naturally he will say things like this that his audience agrees with.

Originally posted by: Stryk

Originally posted by: Cocytus
So?

Kind of my thoughts.

I know that hackshot added a touch of spin, but the raw video comments aren't exactly shockers.

And its kind of shameless how Mitt's coverage is so blatantly cherry picked by the media just like this section of video is cherry picked.

My other thought is that the ME situation must not be reflecting well on Obama that the October Suprise has been sprung a little early.

Ftw

I must have missed something... There aren't that many people who think the government owes them? I guess I don't live in the real world.

I like the timing of this release given the current chaos in the middle east, the death of an ambassador, and the current administration is stating they refuse to answer anymore questions until the investigation is complete [which will probably be after 6 Nov].

"Get the spotlight off of us and put it on romney"

Here's where his data came from:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3054



published June 14, 2011

before he can talk about X% not paying income taxes, maybe he should release all his.

please read: Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith to get more detailed info on what Romney believes in.

Paultard alert!!!
_______________________________________________________________
"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making it easy for them in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it" Ben Franklin

Originally posted by: samUwell
before he can talk about X% not paying income taxes, maybe he should release all his.

why should he release more than the law requires? If he was within the laws of this screwed up system then whats the issue?

Originally posted by: Killet

Originally posted by: samUwell
before he can talk about X% not paying income taxes, maybe he should release all his.

why should he release more than the law requires? If he was within the laws of this screwed up system then whats the issue?

Sam hates anyone who isn't RP. The good news is two of my pals who are Paultards are gonna vote for mitt because they realized that keeping Obama WH is not an option
_______________________________________________________________
"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making it easy for them in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it" Ben Franklin

The Right has the 'birthers' and the Left has the 'returners'.

Originally posted by: Killet

Originally posted by: samUwell
before he can talk about X% not paying income taxes, maybe he should release all his.

why should he release more than the law requires? If he was within the laws of this screwed up system then whats the issue?

is he not trying to show us, the 99% of America, that he knows the plight we all go through in order to survive in this country?

like snake always says, "if you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about."

Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Sam hates anyone who isn't RP. The good news is two of my pals who are Paultards are gonna vote for mitt because they realized that keeping Obama WH is not an option

bull fucking shit!

any and every Paul supporter knows there is no difference between mitt or obama. to dislike obama is the same as disliking mitt.

to vote for one to keep the other out, is only what retards do.

Originally posted by: samUwell

Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Sam hates anyone who isn't RP. The good news is two of my pals who are Paultards are gonna vote for mitt because they realized that keeping Obama WH is not an option

bull fucking shit!

any and every Paul supporter knows there is no difference between mitt or obama. to dislike obama is the same as disliking mitt.

to vote for one to keep the other out, is only what retards do.

Lmao. You really are ignorant or naive. Most RP supporters are


_______________________________________________________________
"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making it easy for them in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it" Ben Franklin

Originally posted by: hackshot.

Originally posted by: Smiling Canadian
I guess telling the truth gets you in trouble in politics....WHO KNEW!!??

Truth, most times...but people are willing to believe and go along with it if you don't change your story depending on whom the story is told to.

I mean fuck, mittens is already polling lower than Obama and he just purposefully alienated just under half of the population. A fair portion of that 47% are people that will vote for Romney, you know the ones in the shitholes of West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, South/North Carolina. Those are the white folk that Romney is trying desperately to try to get vote.

I don't mention the inner cities because they aren't his voter base to begin with (and yes, I acknowledge the fact that they are freeloaders) but speaking in absolutes will get you absolutely no where, especially not the WH.

Although harsh, I found his assesment fairly accurate. It is the independents that will decide the outcome. I doubt he alienated a large audience.

If he loses, it'll be because he's a weak candidate. It's pathetic we have to choose between dumb and dumber to lead our country.

Originally posted by: Pixel
unfortunately for mitt supporters, while they would like to pretend people that pay no federal income tax are just a bunch of poor black and minority folk that would already vote for obama, these people include students, elderly, soldiers and a decent amount of poor whites.

and while many people don't pay federal income tax, they pay taxes on the state level and federal payroll taxes, etc...

it's a bit more complex than the right wing partisan spin.

the release of more video footage should be fun, where Romney derides latinos by saying if he was Mexican he would win this election.

Yes...yes......and illegal immigrants pay legitimate taxes too under that suggestion (especially once you include sales tax).

The problem is that the SUMMATION of ALL the money collected from them.....subtracted from the SUMMATION of what they get back in tax returns, government benefits, etc......is NOT a POSITIVE number. Hence the criticism with them and hence the criticism with this 47% group.

At the end of the day almost half this country has externalized their costs for living off onto someone else. At the end of the day we have more desperate dependents than we have wealth producers. At the end of the day that system can not continue functioning forever, especially so long as that country continues to dig itself further and further into the red.

Originally posted by: subroutine
I'm not sure what is so shocking about this video. Oh....right, it's political season, where intellectually honest discussions are replaced by the media masturbating to sound bites while citizens follow suit....even more so than usual.

Yeah I have to say.......I felt the same way.

It's actually the first time that I felt Romney was being honest and actually said something with conviction. I don't know why, but I loved it. If this is damning dialogue, then I want to hear him mutter more of it.

It's the first time I believed anything he had to say and actually found myself agreeing with him.

while Romney claims to have excellent business experience while running Bain Capital, i wonder how many of the 47% he is complaining about did he create?

Originally posted by: samUwell
while Romney claims to have excellent business experience while running Bain Capital, i wonder how many of the 47% he is complaining about did he create?

Probably a good amount.......

But he has a good point of those who are addicted to government dependence don't give a shit about his pledge to lower taxes, improve the economy, or create jobs.

Sadly, it's still not like I believe him, or even think he would have the ability to do any of those things.

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: subroutine
I'm not sure what is so shocking about this video. Oh....right, it's political season, where intellectually honest discussions are replaced by the media masturbating to sound bites while citizens follow suit....even more so than usual.

Yeah I have to say.......I felt the same way.

It's actually the first time that I felt Romney was being honest and actually said something with conviction. I don't know why, but I loved it. If this is damning dialogue, then I want to hear him mutter more of it.

It's the first time I believed anything he had to say and actually found myself agreeing with him.

Good point Mockery, I agree that it is the first time someone other than Ron Paul put a laser beam on a growing problem.

Nevertheless, so what. As other posters have stated, voting for either will get the same result. I don't really blame either of these men nor the government officials before them for Americans lining up at the trough.

Our politicians reflect us. I think you've said that before and it's true.

Originally posted by: samUwell
while Romney claims to have excellent business experience while running Bain Capital, i wonder how many of the 47% he is complaining about did he create?

How so Sam? So shutting down a company that isnt profitable or a shitty company is now a bad thing? I guess you think that in school now everyone is a winner right. Even 10th place should get a medal?


_______________________________________________________________
"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making it easy for them in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it" Ben Franklin

Originally posted by: Cocytus

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: subroutine
I'm not sure what is so shocking about this video. Oh....right, it's political season, where intellectually honest discussions are replaced by the media masturbating to sound bites while citizens follow suit....even more so than usual.

Yeah I have to say.......I felt the same way.

It's actually the first time that I felt Romney was being honest and actually said something with conviction. I don't know why, but I loved it. If this is damning dialogue, then I want to hear him mutter more of it.

It's the first time I believed anything he had to say and actually found myself agreeing with him.

Good point Mockery, I agree that it is the first time someone other than Ron Paul put a laser beam on a growing problem.

Nevertheless, so what. As other posters have stated, voting for either will get the same result. I don't really blame either of these men nor the government officials before them for Americans lining up at the trough.

Our politicians reflect us. I think you've said that before and it's true.

It has been easy for me to fault the government, fault the corporations, fault the lawyers until I finally realized that all of these entities really are nothing more than a direct reflection of the wills and desires of our larger society.

If people didn't feel so removed from self accountability they wouldn't have the audacity to spill burning hot coffee between their legs, while driving, and sue McDonald's for it........if people weren't so devoid of individual responsibility a jury never would have compensated her so well for HER actions and HER stupidity.

If people weren't so removed from the idea of self accountability they wouldn't constantly demand a government who houses them, pays their bills, buys their food, educates their kids, gives them healthcare, and provides everything they need to live today.........and if people weren't so devoid of individual responsibility they wouldn't have an ever growing list of larger and more invasive/expensive responsibilities that they would also like to have the government further do for them.

If people weren't so removed from the idea of self accountability they wouldn't shop at, buy stock, or participate as active customers with corporations who they felt wronged them unjustly........who screwed over their fellow citizens, countrymen, community. And if people weren't so devoid of individual responsibility they would realize that voluntarily giving their money, or tax money, to something they vehemently disagree with only creates more of this behavior in the future (not less).

Peoples individual actions are the cure for their own cancer, their own ineptness, their own demise.......yet they continually fail to evaluate how they got into their current predicament. For that reason alone it is also obvious they never will never get out of it until they do.

Until society wises up.......changes prioritization.....there is zero hope for any level of change or correction.

Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~

Originally posted by: samUwell
while Romney claims to have excellent business experience while running Bain Capital, i wonder how many of the 47% he is complaining about did he create?

How so Sam? So shutting down a company that isnt profitable or a shitty company is now a bad thing? I guess you think that in school now everyone is a winner right. Even 10th place should get a medal?

That's the standard argument........