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Jon Jones KO's Rashad Evans

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2012-05-10 · 35 posts




This Saturday, finally.... Evans takes on Jones for the Title.

UFC 145: Jones vs. Evans
Date: Apr 21, 2012
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Venue: Philips Arena
Broadcast: Pay-per-view, FX and Facebook

MAIN CARD (Pay-per-view)
Champ Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans (for light-heavyweight title)
Rory MacDonald vs. Che Mills
Ben Rothwell vs. Brendan Schaub
Michael McDonald vs. Miguel Torres
Mark Hominick vs. Eddie Yagin
John Alessio vs. Mark Bocek

PRELIMINARY CARD (FX)
Travis Browne vs. Chad Griggs
Matt Brown vs. Stephen Thompson
John Makdessi vs. Anthony Njokuani
Mac Danzig vs. Efrain Escudero

PRELIMINARY CARD (Facebook)
Chris Clements vs. Keith Wisniewski
Maximo Blanco vs. Marcus Brimage

This card is loaded with good fights, I hope it lives up to its potential.

Do you think Jones does it in 1 round or 2? If he is smart it will the 2nd round. Loosen up, get his rhythm, get the distance down, pepper Rashad with shots to soften him up and then a take down at the end of round 1 with some ground and pound. Round 2 threaten the take down get Rashad to back up to the fence and then unload for the KO

Rashad is a good fighter but I just can't see him winning this.
Destroy your opponent as quickly as possible. Rashad does pose an athletic threat. I don't count him out, but Jones should KO him in the 1st.
I hope evans catches jones and knocks him out cold, early in the 2nd round. Stop this JJ hype machine and I dont even like evans
Post edited by Killet at 4/17/2012 4:00:27 PM
Originally posted by: Killet
I hope evans catches jones and knocks him out cold, early in the 2nd round. Stop this JJ hype machine and I dont even like evans


QFT....but I am not confident that is how it's going to go down. Andy is right, you put the opponent down ASAP. The fighters are too skilled to leave openings for an upset victory.

Jon Jones
Rory MacDonald
Brendan Schaub
Miguel Torres
Mark Hominick
John Alessio

Quickpicks. No real preference on Jones or Rashad, but Jones is part of the 'new' generation of fighters.

Kind Regards,
"Hodor," said Hodor.
Originally posted by: =>PX<=Major
Originally posted by: Killet
I hope evans catches jones and knocks him out cold, early in the 2nd round. Stop this JJ hype machine and I dont even like evans


QFT....but I am not confident that is how it's going to go down. Andy is right, you put the opponent down ASAP. The fighters are too skilled to leave openings for an upset victory.

Dude, leave no openings. Chael Sonnen didn't finish Da Spider and he lost with 1:30 left in the 5th round. Forrest Griffin submitted Shogun in the 3rd rnd with about 10-20 seconds left. Just recently, Okami absolutely destroyed Tim Boetsch for 2 rnds. Boetsch came out and got 1 shot in in the 3rd and took it.

No cat and mouse games.
MAIN CARD (Pay-per-view)
Jon Jones
Rory MacDonald
Brendan Schaub
Miguel Torres
Mark Hominick
Mark Bocek

PRELIMINARY CARD (FX)
Travis Browne
Matt Brown
Anthony Njokuani
Efrain Escudero

PRELIMINARY CARD (Facebook)
Chris Clements
Marcus Brimage

Originally posted by: Andural69
Black guy hits white guy. I'm calling this a hate crime
_______________________________________________________________
"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
Haven't had much time.

Champ Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans (for light-heavyweight title)
Jones by KO

Rory MacDonald vs. Che Mills
Rory MacDonald by decision

Ben Rothwell vs. Brendan Schaub
Schaub by KO in the first.

Michael McDonald vs. Miguel Torres
Miguel Torres to get his groove on

Mark Hominick vs. Eddie Yagin
Hominick in a vicious battle. Dec.

John Alessio vs. Mark Bocek
Bocek by RNC

PRELIMINARY CARD (FX)
Travis Browne vs. Chad Griggs
Battle of 2 HW's doing well, who probably won't go very far. Browne is light on his own, so Browne by KO.

Matt Brown vs. Stephen Thompson
Stephen "wonder boy" by KO in the 3rd to end a war.

John Makdessi vs. Anthony Njokuani
Njokuani by Head Kick

Mac Danzig vs. Efrain Escudero
Danzig by Armbar.


There is a big difference between waiting for an opening and rushing in like an idiot to try and KO in the first 5 sec and getting KO yourself.

Seen plenty of fights where someone rushed the fight in the first round and got caught. Jones tends to feel out his opponents for at least the first few minutes in round 1 if not all of round 1. To me that's much smarter than blind rush to finish.

In this fight, the reason I raised the question is will the animosity be enough to cause Jones to go for the kill faster or can he keep his emotion in check and fight smart? Rashad is tough and even if he gets rocked in the 1st he is strong, athletic, and skilled enough to come back quickly.

Jones has paced attack in the past waiting for the right time to finish. Or maybe it will be the revers and Rashad might try to finish to early if he rocks Jones a little. Will their feud and bad blood play a big role or not?
FYI - since Overeem tested hot (big suprise!) the title fight with Junior Dos Antos has been up in the air. The hearing with the Nevada state commission is a few days away but Dana White pulled the plug on that fight.

JDS is now fighting Frank Mir. Cain Velaques was to fight Mir, now his opponent is TBD. If in some miracle Overeem is cleared they might stick him back in with Cain.

I have no idea how Overeem made it this long without getting caught.
Rules are different in Europe leagues.
Cain vs Big Country.
btw, Cain vs bigfoot. Big Country without an opponent atm.

The night started slow, but turned out pretty good. Ben Rothwell was in awesome shape, though he still looks like a Rapist.

Note on Overeem, he never tested positive for anything, just high testosterone to estrogen ratio. He said a medication for a rib injury caused it, which will be interesting to see how it pans out. But this is a big card and the fights must be promoted, so Ubereem got pulled.
Wasn't it like 14-1 Testosterone level? Max is 6-1, he was more than twice the allowable limit! Rib injury my ass, and to anyone who believes that excuse! That's twice a shadow has been cast over him! Overoids FTL.

MacDonald and McDonald look awesome, the prelims were good to watch too. Wonderboy's TDD was horrible, it's like he thought his awesomeness was enough to prevent a TD...and was surprised when it happened.
Originally posted by: Andural69
btw, Cain vs bigfoot. Big Country without an opponent atm.


Huh, thought Big C said he was offered the fight. Looks like he's fighting Gonzaga now per Dana's tweet.
Dana White is still deciding whether or not to release overeem
Originally posted by: Andural69
Dana White is still deciding whether or not to release overeem


I don't think he will, he can serve out his 9 month ban and come back. I am not a fan of Overroids, but he is a draw and Dana is all about the money.

He could make a statement and release him. That'd send a message to all the other fighters out there, stay clean or get banned. My money says Dana will chose the first option.
Dana has always given people a chance to redeem themselves from tests. Sonnen, Tim Sylvia, Leben, Thiago Silva. Let's face it, Overeem is losing a ton of money for the fight, probably sponsorships and whatnot during this period. A chance at the title. And I think he'd beat Dos Santos to. And he's in a contract dispute with his old management team (Golden Glory) as well. This is quite a punishment already. He doesn't have to be released to learn a lesson.

And people deserve a 2nd chance. He passed other tests I believe. While I think there's a good chance he does roids(look at him), I also understand that sometimes fighters make the choice to do roids for recovery reasons. A fighter said "I can be out for a year, not putting food on the table, or I can take roids and recover and fight in 3 months. In that case, I have to take the roids and feed my family." Something along those lines. Royce gracie was caught on roids and he probably can't bench his own weight. Barnett is a fatty and he has been caught. Leben is in shape, but far from GSP shape. Overeem is being treated how he is though due to how he looks.

I'm positive Overeem knew what he was taking, but there is a chance (small, but still) he took it just to heal so he can train properly and still fight. Thiago Silva came out and basically said the same for his use.
I don't have an issue if someone takes steroids to recover from an injury, but I also believe you have to file for an exception...correct? To me, that makes it legit. Asking or making up an excuse after you get caught is bullshit in my book.


Reem is definitely taking something, look at him from when he first started fighting, he's twice the size he was before....and he was in good shape back then(read: natural).

And this is his second offense, if I'm not mistaken.
Originally posted by: =>PX<=Major
I don't have an issue if someone takes steroids to recover from an injury, but I also believe you have to file for an exception...correct? To me, that makes it legit. Asking or making up an excuse after you get caught is bullshit in my book.


Reem is definitely taking something, look at him from when he first started fighting, he's twice the size he was before....and he was in good shape back then(read: natural).

And this is his second offense, if I'm not mistaken.

1) It's his 1st offense, but he tested high testorone. He technically didn't test positive for anything. He left the day they tried him last time, then he provided a blood or urine sample and they wanted the other. He didn't test positive for anything or test high.

2) The fighter was saying people take things without getting exemptions because regardless, some drugs are illegal or whatever. The commission might not allow something that will heal without roids just because it will heal quicker.

3) Thing about when he first started was he was fighting in the LHW division, not hw. Once he went to HW he turned into a greek god. But it wasn't overnight. I think he does do roids, but it's not as clean cut as well he was skinny before. Kind of like... Kendall gorve in the mw division. He couldn't gain any more strength, he's too tall and skinny. He'd have to move up a division.
My point was that if you are natural and in great shape already, it is very difficult to put on that much more additional muscle mass without using a growth hormone or testosterone.

I know he didn't test positive for anything, but let's not play games here. A normal adult male AVERAGES 0-1 testosterone level, the commision allows for 0-6, he tested at 14. He clearly is using something to jack his testosterone through the roof.

He and other fighters always have some mickey mouse excuses as to why they tested positive. To me, IMHO, I'm tired of hearing about it.




You make it sound like Overeem went to HVW and then started getting muscular. He went to HVW BECAUSE he was bulking so fast. What happened to cause that explosion in growth?

He is a fighter and most fighters do not lift to get big, but to get strong or for endurance. You get a different type of muscle from that workout. Fighters burn a ton of calories during workouts. You say what about Roy Nelson? The guy eats a ton of junk food and I say what about Roy Nelson not being a greek god with all the workouts and food intake.


Overeem grew at a pace faster than the average human, gained solid muscle and stayed rip, while enduring punishing workouts and fighting.


If that was the only argument you could say he is just a genetically blessed human. But it isn't the only argument. He tested off the charts for testosterone.

Overeem’s T/E ratio was greater than 10-1, well above the 6-1 ratio that is the cutoff for positive tests in Nevada, said Keith Kizer, commission executive director.
.




On December 30th Alistair Overeem is scheduled to meet Brock Lesnar at UFC 141 in a number one contenders match. The Nevada State Athletic Commission required a prefight drug test of Overeem to be taken November 17th.

However, on that date Overeem returned to Holland to care for his sick mother. Overeem blames the misunderstanding on poor communication between the NSAC and his assistant.

On December 7th, Overeem gave blood to be tested for illegal substances. The problem is that he was suppose to provide a urine sample and the doctor administering the test was Overeem's personal doctor. The integrity of this test is easily, and rightfully, questioned.



Overeem also got kicked out of Strikeforce. He had beaten Werdum and was in the semi-finals for the HVW title or maybe the finals. He refused to fight saying it was "too soon" and he needed rest. Who passes on a chance for the title, especially when the promoter told you ahead of time if you win then you fight next on this date, then the promoter tells you that if you don't fight, you are fired? A good reason would be if you use steroids and can't get them out of your system in time and you need to cycle some testostone.


One issue with steroids is testosterone depletion. Your body stops making natural test. You NEED supplement you testosterone.



Lets add it up

1. Pictures show a guy growing at a pace that is amazing. In addition, his head grows larger (i.e. Barry Bonds).

2. He added 50 lbs of pure muscle while working out as a fighter where muscle actually slows down a fighter. Fighters work to build strength not muscle

3. He has fought mostly in Europe where testing is much more lax for fighters

4. Dozens of other fighters from Fedor to Dos Antos have accused Overeem of using steroids. Even a former teammate, Marloes Coenen, said she was certain he used steroids.

5. Overeem refused to fight in Strikeforce while under contract, for the title, because the time span was too short. He did not have enough time to cycle the steroids.

6. Overeem "accidentally" missed the official test before the Brock Lesnar fight and submitted a test from his own doctor, Overeem did not submit urine, only blood.

7. As a condition of fighting Lesnar, Overeem was scheduled to post fight testing and random testing to prove his personal testing was valid. HE FAILED THAT TEST.



That is enough evidence for me. The guy does steroids. Should he get a second chance? Maybe. Other guys like Chael Sonnen failed and got a second chance. But Sonnen did not skip a test by accident then fail when retested.

Overeem does steriods. If he fights again either let everyone do steroids or make Overeem test several times pre-fight and several times post fight.
2 things.
1) I said he probably does do roids.

2) your pics show that he was in incredible shape back then for LHW. You take that great work ethic plus his huge frame, he could get big fairly quick and a lot quicker than I can.

He had 8 months off between Buentello and Tae Hyun Lee in 2008 where he could of concentrated on size.

You say fighters workout for... like they all workout the same. Royce and BJ don't workout for strength at all. Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz don't either. Meanwhile Carwin, Lesnar and company have lots of strength, size and not a great deal of cardio.

He could of easily just strength trained for 6 months. Maybe used steroids, maybe not. Most likely he did. But let's not pretend like we know what he did and how he trained.


And it's easy to throw some pics up in a timeline and make it look incredible. But it's much more gradual if you look at pics of each fight.
Originally posted by: Andural69
2 things.
1) I said he probably does do roids.

2) your pics show that he was in incredible shape back then for LHW. You take that great work ethic plus his huge frame, he could get big fairly quick and a lot quicker than I can.

He had 8 months off between Buentello and Tae Hyun Lee in 2008 where he could of concentrated on size.

You say fighters workout for... like they all workout the same. Royce and BJ don't workout for strength at all. Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz don't either. Meanwhile Carwin, Lesnar and company have lots of strength, size and not a great deal of cardio.

He could of easily just strength trained for 6 months. Maybe used steroids, maybe not. Most likely he did. But let's not pretend like we know what he did and how he trained.


And it's easy to throw some pics up in a timeline and make it look incredible. But it's much more gradual if you look at pics of each fight.


1. I said they train for strength and endurance not bulk. Even if they want some additional bulk, its not 50 - 60lbs of it.

2. Carwin, Lesnar, other are big naturally or were big coming into MMA. Even if you want to add weight every trainer in the world knows that large muscles slow down striking. That is a universal boxing / kick boxing tenant. Overeem also fights in K1 which is just kick boxing.

3. If I showed you a picture of Jon Jones 6 years from now and he had an enlarged head and the body of Overeem what would be your first thought.


Regardless of a counterpoint an any single argument, when you add them all together it the sum of proof overcomes each minor argument and says the guy does steroids and its easy to see and prove
I think he does roids, but I think it's all circumstantial evidence.

And Overeem uses his size to his advantage. He literally walks out there and gets people to swing at him then throw bombs and throw them around. So training for SIZE would make sense for him.

Evidence got some random pics that show that over a couple years he added 50 lbs, meanwhile he changed divisions and can now eat and train. Meanwhile, the dude was always in fabulous shape even when he was skinny as fuck. And with a 6'5" frame it's not implausible.

The craziest part is the size of his head (WOW) and I just don't have enough medical knowledge to comment on it. I've heard people say your head gets bigger on roids, but they weren't doctors either.

I think most fighters have taken roids, without proper legal channels though. It's a question of how often and for what purpose. GSP has been accused of roids. Lesnar was always accused saying you can't be that big without, but he never tested positive.
Well there are a few type of roids that can be taken. 1. is in pill form, this is used mostly for medical reasons. 2. is in juice form (inject-able). the juice isn't depleted like the pill form. The first thing that you get from roids is the instant strength. Your body feels like all this power. You can move concrete pillars by yourself, play a 3 hour football game on offense and defense and the go into a fight. Even after all that you got a super high sex drive from the testosterone following in your body.

When you cycle like Overeem has, his body grew by leaps and bounds with out putting years in this gym to bulk up like pro bodybuilders do, you don't grow like that. I really feel sorry for him, if he doesn't continue replacing his testosterone for the rest of his life, he will end up looking like an old woman later in life.

If you are wondering why I know about this, My brother in law used to take testosterone before and I tried it once. It was freaking unreal though. I will not do it again.
Originally posted by: Andural69
I think he does roids, but I think it's all circumstantial evidence.


Blood test showing he is 10 - 1 testosterone when the MAXIMUM limit was 6 -1 is circumstantial?

What you have is enough circumstantial evidence to find him guilty ... and oh by the is way there is also hard evidence that is conclusive and would be enough to find him guilty.



Originally posted by: Bigguns 93
Originally posted by: Andural69
I think he does roids, but I think it's all circumstantial evidence.


Blood test showing he is 10 - 1 testosterone when the MAXIMUM limit was 6 -1 is circumstantial?

What you have is enough circumstantial evidence to find him guilty ... and oh by the is way there is also hard evidence that is conclusive and would be enough to find him guilty.



No he admitted that he took steroids from a doctor for a rib injury, though he didn't know any roids were in it, was his claim. So for the 10:1 ratio, he has a supposed excuse. He has tested clean before so it's not like he's always testing positive.

Royce tested positive for roids before, but he doesn't look like that. You and all of us are judging him based on his looks alone rather than real proof. He tested for high for testorone and even the commission chose not to ban\deny the license him for a full year based on the evidence he presented and gave him a reduced sentence.
Sonnen doesn't look like that and we all judged him on a test and a supposed misunderstanding with doctors and the commission.

The pictures are icing on the cake, not the cake. Even without the cake, there is so much fucking icing that it by itself could be enough. But there is cake. Scientific proof based on conclusive test that he used steroids.
end result, even if he only used roids once unbeknownst to him for an injury, that means that's how he got bigger. Got it. What scientific evidence that he took roids prior to this year is there again?
You tell us. Everyone else is looking at a blood test, ducking tests in the past, quotes from other fighters and team mates, photos that show abnormal growth. All that is wrong, but you say you believe he has done steroids.

Edumucate me. What are you using to form your conclusion the man does steroids?

35 posts recovered