The NYC protesters speak!!

And about sums it up nicely....

Meanwhile his solution and your solution are completely different things.

http://usdayofrage.org/

http://www.occupywallstreet.com/

https://occupywallst.org/

http://october2011.org/

http://adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet

========================

So.

Whats their solution? I havent found an answer on any of those above links. Perhaps a [very] like minded leftie here can explain what changes these protesters would like to incorporate once they "change" the system?

A few of my neighbors work down by Wall St... Said, for the most part, the "protesters" are just college kids hanging out. It isn't until the weekend when the older protesters come to hang out with them and get loud.

According to one guy, they're friendly enough... they don't harass the suits as they go to their jobs... This neighbor used to participate in the protests in the late 60s... and he appreciates what the kids are doing.

There's one difference between the protesters now compared to what he did when he was protesting.

Back then, he didn't have an iPad and air mattresses to sleep on.

edit:

Like this... but with an iPad and/or laptop...
Post edited by Bibimbap at 10/5/2011 8:23:32 AM

http://usdayofrage.org/

http://www.occupywallstreet.com/

https://occupywallst.org/

http://october2011.org/

http://adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet

========================

So.

Whats their solution? I havent found an answer on any of those above links. Perhaps a [very] like minded leftie here can explain what changes these protesters would like to incorporate once they "change" the system?

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
A few of my neighbors work down by Wall St... Said, for the most part, the "protesters" are just college kids hanging out. It isn't until the weekend when the older protesters come to hang out with them and get loud.

According to one guy, they're friendly enough... they don't harass the suits as they go to their jobs... This neighbor used to participate in the protests in the late 60s... and he appreciates what the kids are doing.

There's one difference between the protesters now compared to what he did when he was protesting.

Back then, he didn't have an iPad and air mattresses to sleep on.

edit:

Like this... but with an iPad and/or laptop...

kids are fucked up! I know several that think they should be making 60k right out if college. Lol. They won't take work because it's beneath them.
_______________________________________________________________
"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"

http://usdayofrage.org/

http://www.occupywallstreet.com/

https://occupywallst.org/

http://october2011.org/

http://adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet

========================

So.

Whats their solution? I havent found an answer on any of those above links. Perhaps a [very] like minded leftie here can explain what changes these protesters would like to incorporate once they "change" the system?

Update: Maybe that Champion of Integrity and Independence, dieselfumes can defend these actions of Free Speech and explain the change they want.

Its fucking flamebait and I know it...fuck fuck fuck...here is the over over over simplified version....in MY opinion, and I agree with this guy:

A pension system is a bet on the future — some money is set aside currently, but not enough to pay all the promised benefits. So, how pension funds are invested and safeguarded is key. Originally, many states required pension funds to invest in safe, interest-bearing bonds. But Wall Street could not make a lot of money from that, so it bank-rolled initiatives and legislation to repeal these protections and permit pension funds to be invested in the stuff they make big profits by peddling. Then Wall Street money managers captured pension funds’ investment portfolios by assuring trustees that ever-higher stock prices would pay for the retirement promises. Charging enormous fees, they made risky stock market bets, putting up to 80% of pension plan assets in the stock market. The Wall Street wisdom that ever-rising stock prices would fund pension plan promises was wrong. In fact, we have seen three major equity wealth destruction events in last 20 years.

As a result, the financial situation of our public employee pension funds is precarious. These funds lost hundreds of billions in the S&L disaster and the 2001-2002 market crash. After the 2001-2002 wipeout — guided by Wall Street — fund trustees took much greater risks to try to make up for the prior losses. They poured billions into hedge funds, private equity, speculative real estate and that special Wall Street invention — collateralized debt obligations. Then, in the 2008-2009 financial crisis, the losses of public funds were stupendous. 109 state funds lost $865 billion in about one year. CalPERS lost $72 billion! Now virtually all of these funds are now grossly under-funded. New Jersey and Illinois are each over $50 billion underwater.

Source

I'm not saying it's why THEY are there. Most of the protesters don't look old enough to even have a pension...but they will someday (they hope), so, even if it's not why they are there in particular, it is a good reason to be there.

Additionally:

As for the millions of government clerks, engineers, janitors, teachers and firefighters in the retirement systems, they are protected by law or, as in New York, by the state constitution, to be backed up by tax dollars if necessary. Their benefits remain safe for life in guaranteed "defined benefit" pension plans that are disappearing in the private sector, where most employees are left to fend for themselves with 401(k) plans that they mostly or entirely fund themselves.

Source

Seems like all tax payers have a dog in this fight.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

I'm a small business owner... I don't have a pension.

I hide my money under the mattress, so to speak.... Actually, it's "safe" long term investments like bonds and shit... Just as long as several municipalities all over the place with decent AAA ratings don't go bankrupt, really....

Pension is a foreign concept to me...

edit: I'm all about QSIP numbers and shit... but I have been told I can sock away MORE money if I started a tiered 401K program for my business
Post edited by Bibimbap at 10/5/2011 10:55:14 AM

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
edit: I'm all about QSIP numbers and shit...

That's the second time you've made me look shit up today! Dpn't you mean "CUSIP numbers"?

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
these are not the eugenics you are looking for, move along...

I'd never seen or heard the word "eugenics" used before today. Thanks, I learned something.
Post edited by FSB at 10/5/2011 11:04:11 AM

______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
I'm a small business owner... I don't have a pension.

I hide my money under the mattress, so to speak.... Actually, it's "safe" long term investments like bonds and shit... Just as long as several municipalities all over the place with decent AAA ratings don't go bankrupt, really....

Pension is a foreign concept to me...

edit: I'm all about QSIP numbers and shit... but I have been told I can sock away MORE money if I started a tiered 401K program for my business

You unlock the front door on your pension plan everyday.

Originally posted by: FSB
*Snip*

blah blah.. and your source link is broken. Fix it.

============

I'm not saying it's why THEY are there. Most of the protesters don't look old enough to even have a pension...but they will someday (they hope), so, even if it's not why they are there in particular, it is a good reason to be there.

Additionally:

As for the millions of government clerks, engineers, janitors, teachers and firefighters in the retirement systems, they are protected by law or, as in New York, by the state constitution, to be backed up by tax dollars if necessary. Their benefits remain safe for life in guaranteed "defined benefit" pension plans that are disappearing in the private sector, where most employees are left to fend for themselves with 401(k) plans that they mostly or entirely fund themselves.

Source

Seems like all tax payers have a dog in this fight.

You do realize that most of those public employees are unions, right? How come the article didnt mention that VITAL piece of information?

Also, wouldnt you be better off investing YOUR hard earned dollars in a 401k than social stupidity? I mean, at least there you can control your money where as in socsec, politicians control it and have robbed it blind and left a ton of worthless IOUs.

derp derp derp

=============

BTW, since you have established you read left leaning sites like the huffingtoncompost and is your source for opinion and facts, maybe you can explain the change these protesters want. Here, read this because I dont understand it:

Originally posted by: Hippie Hipster Website
October 2011 will mark the start of the 11th year of the invasion of Afghanistan and the onset of the 2012 US federal budget, which provides unlimited funds for war and corporate welfare, yet withholds essential funds for services that meet human needs.

http://october2011.org/

What kind of change do they seek??? I mean, obviously HUMAN NEEDS are NOT being funded.

"Bail PEOPLE out! Not Banks!", the protester yelled while tweeting wirelessly on their 3G enabled iPad...

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
You do realize that most of those public employees are unions, right? How come the article didnt mention that VITAL piece of information?

Both articles mentioned that they were "public pensions", and I provided a source for both. How did YOU find out the articles were talking about public pensions? Did you use your "super sleuth" add on for Firefox? I wasn't trying to hide anything.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
Also, wouldnt you be better off investing YOUR hard earned dollars in a 401k than social stupidity? I mean, at least there you can control your money where as in socsec, politicians control it and have robbed it blind and left a ton of worthless IOUs.

I'm pretty sure that's part of the issue. Abuse of public funds, well, not public public, but publicly funded pensions. The pensions WILL get paid. Perhaps not as much, but be it through investment or taxes...the pensions are protected and someone will pay.

=============

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
BTW, since you have established you read left leaning sites like the huffingtoncompost and is your source for opinion and facts, maybe you can explain the change these protesters want. Here, read this because I dont understand it:
http://october2011.org/

Originally posted by: Hippie Hipster Website
October 2011 will mark the start of the 11th year of the invasion of Afghanistan and the onset of the 2012 US federal budget, which provides unlimited funds for war and corporate welfare, yet withholds essential funds for services that meet human needs.

No clue. I suppose that quote is in reference to the fact that while investment firms get bailed out and the military keeps on, well, doing it's thing...people lose housing, bridges don't get fixed, and children go hungry.

I think it's meant to shine a mirror on the priorities of the government. As if to say...the government think it's okay to spend a couple million blowing up a small village in some country with a "stan" in it's name, then spend a couple million rebuilding it...so long as someone (or a corporation) makes money from it, both in the bomb a that destroyed it, and the company that rebuilds it....but fuck our own infrastructure and our own "needy" citizens.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
What kind of change do they seek??? I mean, obviously HUMAN NEEDS are NOT being funded.

Obviously you don't give a shit. Why the feigned curiosity? I highly doubt you would do shit even if you could, which you can't.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
"Bail PEOPLE out! Not Banks!", the protester yelled while tweeting wirelessly on their 3G enabled iPad...

You don't have to BE a person that needs "bailed out" to be a person protesting for people that need "bailed out".

It's the same shit here over and over again. People here, for the most part, hate the poor. It's a tired theme.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Not the poor, the irresponsible... The people who don't want to be accountable for their own decisions.


The point I was making with that sentence was the the protester was asking for debt relief, meanwhile, they own a 3G enabled iPad device... which at it's minimum costs $500 with a monthly data charge.


*I* don't own an iPad... much less one that requires a monthly fee.


I think you missed that.

edit:
I think the more responsible theme would be for people to STOP obeying the advertisers, and don't buy shit you can't afford because it's "cool" to have.


Post edited by Bibimbap at 10/5/2011 11:44:47 AM

Originally posted by: FSB
Both articles mentioned that they were "public pensions", and I provided a source for both. How did YOU find out the articles were talking about public pensions? Did you use your "super sleuth" add on for Firefox? I wasn't trying to hide anything.

Terrible reply. Which part of Union confuses you? Obviously you and all the other haters at the compost missed this part. This was your source, not mine. Quit providing broken links too.

Now address my question.

Originally posted by: FSB
I'm pretty sure that's part of the issue. Abuse of public funds, well, not public public, but publicly funded pensions. The pensions WILL get paid. Perhaps not as much, but be it through investment or taxes...the pensions are protected and someone will pay.

Which one is it? Public funds or not? You are confused here. Sort your thoughts out and put together a coherent reply. Right now, you are lost in the sauce.

=============

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: Hippie Hipster Website
October 2011 will mark the start of the 11th year of the invasion of Afghanistan and the onset of the 2012 US federal budget, which provides unlimited funds for war and corporate welfare, yet withholds essential funds for services that meet human needs.

No clue. I suppose that quote is in reference to the fact that while investment firms get bailed out and the military keeps on, well, doing it's thing...people lose housing, bridges don't get fixed, and children go hungry.

I think it's meant to shine a mirror on the priorities of the government. As if to say...the government think it's okay to spend a couple million blowing up a small village in some country with a "stan" in it's name, then spend a couple million rebuilding it...so long as someone (or a corporation) makes money from it, both in the bomb a that destroyed it, and the company that rebuilds it....but fuck our own infrastructure and our own "needy" citizens.

lol wut? You were asked to explain how the US Budget funds all these wars and stuff yet human needs are unfunded.

How can that be?

Do you comprehend American English?

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
What kind of change do they seek??? I mean, obviously HUMAN NEEDS are NOT being funded.

Obviously you don't give a shit. Why the feigned curiosity? I highly doubt you would do shit even if you could, which you can't.

One of the stupidest statements yet. Tell me, besides professing that wealthy people like you [allegedly; I dont believe you though] should give more (yet you refuse to), what have YOU done for your fellow American and makes you think I havent?

Ill entertain this ignorant departure from the topic.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Not the poor, the irresponsible... The people who don't want to be accountable for their own decisions.


The point I was making with that sentence was the the protester was asking for debt relief, meanwhile, they own a 3G enabled iPad device... which at it's minimum costs $500 with a monthly data charge.


*I* don't own an iPad... much less one that requires a monthly fee.


I think you missed that.

edit:
I think the more responsible theme would be for people to STOP obeying the advertisers, and don't buy shit you can't afford because it's "cool" to have.

And I think you missed MY point....unlike these forums, there are people in the world who get involved BEFORE they "get the disease".

Not everyone is a Race for Life has cancer. As such, not everyone protesting needs/wants relief personally. i.e. Protesting for others.

Your making an assumption that because someone is "protesting for the poor" that they are in the protest for themselves.

As far as the semantics game goes...poor, irresponsible...whatever. Those words are interchangeable here. If your poor, you were irresponsible...and as such, the sooner you die, the better off the rest of "us" will be.

Personally, I think it's bullshit. Lloyd Blankfein was irresponsible...but his bonus was $100 million, and yet, he isn't half as hated as the anonymous "poor" by most on these forums.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
Ill entertain this ignorant departure from the topic.

I won't, you win, your superior to me in every way shape and form. My opinion and thought have no merit and I should be grateful you even allow me to post in the same thread.

You don't care, your bored with your life, you use the plight of others as a tool to prop up your own feelings of self worth.

Go fuck yourself.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

The protesters haven't called out Lloyd Blankfein specifically, yet, have they?

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
"Bail PEOPLE out! Not Banks!", the protester yelled while tweeting wirelessly on their 3G enabled iPad...

You don't have to BE a person that needs "bailed out" to be a person protesting for people that need "bailed out".

It's the same shit here over and over again. People here, for the most part, hate the poor. It's a tired theme.

I don't think everyone here hates the poor, that's an innaccurate generalization. Most here are for personal responsibility and that includes people from both sides of the aisle. I'm not for bailing out the banks and I'm not for bailing out individuals either. I don't hate the poor(I used to be one of them) but I do hate banks.

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
Ill entertain this ignorant departure from the topic.

I won't, you win, your superior to me in every way shape and form. My opinion and thought have no merit and I should be grateful you even allow me to post in the same thread.

You don't care, your bored with your life, you use the plight of others as a tool to prop up your own feelings of self worth.

Go fuck yourself.

Dont rage bro.

Is this how you deal with things when life gets too tough?

All you had to do was back up what you said.

And you couldnt do it, both in word and deed.

BTW, where my gift check? IRS allows up to $13,000 this year as a tax write off -you did say giving away your money wouldnt hurt you. Do I need to provide the quote again?

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Not the poor, the irresponsible... The people who don't want to be accountable for their own decisions.
...
...

And I think you missed MY point....unlike these forums, there are people in the world who get involved BEFORE they "get the disease".

Not everyone is a Race for Life has cancer. As such, not everyone protesting needs/wants relief personally. i.e. Protesting for others.

Your making an assumption that because someone is "protesting for the poor" that they are in the protest for themselves.

As far as the semantics game goes...poor, irresponsible...whatever. Those words are interchangeable here. If your poor, you were irresponsible...and as such, the sooner you die, the better off the rest of "us" will be.

So... why you gotta play that card?

I don't like the protesters because I think some are irresponsible... therefore I hate ALL POOR people.

That goes back into the whole POTUS bullshit... I don't like the current POTUS, so that means I'm RACIST!

Bull
SHIT!

I don't donate to Breast Cancer research... does that mean I don't care about cancer?

Give me more... I need to hear it!

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
The protesters haven't called out Lloyd Blankfein specifically, yet, have they?

No...but I was talking about most people here. Not the protesters. I like you Bibimbap. As far as I can tell, your just a hard working, self employed, pharmacist. I know my "liking" you has absolutely no consequence to you...but then again, neither does my admitting it.

As a recap, I said, most people here hate the poor. You said people here hate the irresponsible. I pointed to a (in my opinion) irresponsible "fat cat" to show the break down in logic.

How many post in these forums do you see condemning the poor? How many post do you see in these forums condemning the rich?

There are 2 distinct themes here:

The poor roll around on 20 inch rims, get everything paid for them, and have enough to go on fantastic vacations were they indulge in every drug known to man....all paid for by the people in these forums.

The rich are people who come home tired as hell from a hard days work, sweaty, and dirty. They suffer at the hands of the needy and will someday reach the promised land if only they could get the government off their backs for one second.

Sorry for the hyperbole...but obviously, both examples couldn't be further from the truth.

It's just sad to me that a video of an EBT card is somehow more outrageous and unjust than the guy that MADE millions in fees losing billions of other people money. Then, even when it's pointed to, which is rare, people here point to the President for "letting" it happen. I thought this forums was about personal responsibility and accountability? Why then is no one calling for prison time for "Wall Street"?

/flame away

It's a losing battle, and I'm on the short end of the stick.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-

Dont rage bro.

Is this how you deal with things when life gets too tough?

All you had to do was back up what you said.

And you couldnt do it, both in word and deed.

BTW, where my gift check? IRS allows up to $13,000 this year as a tax write off -you did say giving away your money wouldnt hurt you. Do I need to provide the quote again

You only wish you could make me rage.

As for how I deal with things like "you" in life. Yep, I walk away. You smell of complete bullshit.

My opinions are mine and don't need your "seal of approval" which I don't seek and would never get. I gave you my interruptions of other people statements. Those were not MY statements. You understand that, but it makes for a quick conversation with little argument, something your not interested in.


______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
So... why you gotta play that card?

I don't like the protesters because I think some are irresponsible... therefore I hate ALL POOR people.

That goes back into the whole POTUS bullshit... I don't like the current POTUS, so that means I'm RACIST!

Bull
SHIT!

I don't donate to Breast Cancer research... does that mean I don't care about cancer?

Give me more... I need to hear it!

I think your taking my statements a bit too personally. Perhaps because it's just you and I talking for the moment.

I didn't know if you liked or disliked the protesters. I didn't know you think only some of them are irresponsible. No one said you hated all poor people. I've already said hating Obama doesn't make anyone a racist. Maybe you don't give a shit about breast cancer.

Why are you assuming I'm assuming anything about your opinions? This isn't the "try to hold Bibimbap accountable for all the bullshit on these forums" thread.
Post edited by FSB at 10/5/2011 12:35:25 PM

______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Stop running away and then quoting me as if you arent interested.

You are.

Now, go back last page and explain how human needs arent funded. How is this possible? You failed to address it in a comprehensive and coherent manner. Is their point valid? Yes or no. Start from there and write premises to support your argument. I cant believe I have to explain this to an allegedly grown man.

No wonder you cant comprehend Mack's reasoning on responsibility: Youve never been raised with it.

Step up to the plate and give it a shot.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
Stop running away and then quoting me as if you arent interested.

You are.

Now, go back last page and explain how human needs arent funded. How is this possible? You failed to address it in a comprehensive and coherent manner. Is their point valid? Yes or no. Start from there and write premises to support your argument. I cant believe I have to explain this to an allegedly grown man.

No wonder you cant comprehend Mack's reasoning on responsibility: Youve never been raised with it.

Step up to the plate and give it a shot.

Go fuck yourself.
______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
So... why you gotta play that card?

I don't like the protesters because I think some are irresponsible... therefore I hate ALL POOR people.

That goes back into the whole POTUS bullshit... I don't like the current POTUS, so that means I'm RACIST!

Bull
SHIT!

I don't donate to Breast Cancer research... does that mean I don't care about cancer?

Give me more... I need to hear it!

I think your taking my statements a bit too personally. Perhaps because it's just you and I talking for the moment.

I didn't know if you liked or disliked the protesters. I didn't know you think only some of them are irresponsible. No one said you hated all poor people. I've already said hating Obama doesn't make anyone a racist. Maybe you don't give a shit about breast cancer.

Why are you assuming I'm assuming anything about your opinions? This isn't the "try to hold Bibimbap accountable for all the bullshit on these forums" thread.

nah... I'm just trying different arguments to get a rise out of people.

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
Stop running away and then quoting me as if you arent interested.

You are.

Now, go back last page and explain how human needs arent funded. How is this possible? You failed to address it in a comprehensive and coherent manner. Is their point valid? Yes or no. Start from there and write premises to support your argument. I cant believe I have to explain this to an allegedly grown man.

No wonder you cant comprehend Mack's reasoning on responsibility: Youve never been raised with it.

Step up to the plate and give it a shot.

Go fuck yourself.

This motherfucker mad.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-




This motherfucker mad.

Oh I'm just fuming mad....grrrrr.

Nope. I'm just aware that there is NOTHING I could say or even, as if it's possible, properly defend my opinions by your standards to create an even somewhat interesting conversation. It's like you wake up every morning and read a chapter out of a Bill O'Reilly book.

Go fuck yourself.



______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Still mad.

Dont lie either, Ive provided you plenty of opportunity. You could have written something by now and posted it. Focus your anger into a passionate defense of what was asked.

FTR: You assume alot and avoid whereas I see someone who cant figure out how to defend their statement.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-


Still mad.

Dont lie either, Ive provided you plenty of opportunity. You could have written something by now and posted it. Focus your anger into a passionate defense of what was asked.

FTR: You assume alot and avoid whereas I see someone who cant figure out how to defend their statement.

Man, you can't get enough of yourself can you?

YOU have provided opportunity? Your asking the queestions! I should defend my opinions to you? Well well well...I better hurry up then. I won't have your approval. LMAO


Tell you what...ask ONE obvious question. The heart of what your after...I'll give you YOUR answer.

______________________________________________________________________
"Oh, dark grin, he can't help, when he's happy looks insane, oh yeah"

Originally posted by: Coba|t

*sigh*

Another rotation on the Coba|t merry-go-round.

Originally posted by: Coba|t

Originally posted by: FSB
Its fucking flamebait and I know it...fuck fuck fuck...here is the over over over simplified version....in MY opinion, and I agree with this guy:

A pension system is a bet on the future — some money is set aside currently, but not enough to pay all the promised benefits. So, how pension funds are invested and safeguarded is key. Originally, many states required pension funds to invest in safe, interest-bearing bonds. But Wall Street could not make a lot of money from that, so it bank-rolled initiatives and legislation to repeal these protections and permit pension funds to be invested in the stuff they make big profits by peddling. Then Wall Street money managers captured pension funds’ investment portfolios by assuring trustees that ever-higher stock prices would pay for the retirement promises. Charging enormous fees, they made risky stock market bets, putting up to 80% of pension plan assets in the stock market. The Wall Street wisdom that ever-rising stock prices would fund pension plan promises was wrong. In fact, we have seen three major equity wealth destruction events in last 20 years.

As a result, the financial situation of our public employee pension funds is precarious. These funds lost hundreds of billions in the S&L disaster and the 2001-2002 market crash. After the 2001-2002 wipeout — guided by Wall Street — fund trustees took much greater risks to try to make up for the prior losses. They poured billions into hedge funds, private equity, speculative real estate and that special Wall Street invention — collateralized debt obligations. Then, in the 2008-2009 financial crisis, the losses of public funds were stupendous. 109 state funds lost $865 billion in about one year. CalPERS lost $72 billion! Now virtually all of these funds are now grossly under-funded. New Jersey and Illinois are each over $50 billion underwater.

Source

I'm not saying it's why THEY are there. Most of the protesters don't look old enough to even have a pension...but they will someday (they hope), so, even if it's not why they are there in particular, it is a good reason to be there.

Additionally:

As for the millions of government clerks, engineers, janitors, teachers and firefighters in the retirement systems, they are protected by law or, as in New York, by the state constitution, to be backed up by tax dollars if necessary. Their benefits remain safe for life in guaranteed "defined benefit" pension plans that are disappearing in the private sector, where most employees are left to fend for themselves with 401(k) plans that they mostly or entirely fund themselves.

Source

Seems like all tax payers have a dog in this fight.

Oddly, I find little argument with anything you just said.

It's really too bad that the FED keeps monetizing debt so that people felt the necessity to gamble their pensions in the Wall-Street Ponzi schema in order to keep up with inflation (and actually be able to retire one day).

It's really too bad, that despite the private sector losing their pensions decades ago, the State employees (since the Fed already lost theirs too), feel obligated to receive one, a massive one, after just twenty years of working.

It's really too bad that the only mechanism left to make money and keep people employed in this country anymore is the government printing money, day traders passing money around mindlessly, the government stealing most of it back via taxation....and then pays the bulk of its state workers to sit around at their desk and essentially do nothing all day.

I work for this bullshit system, as most of us do, since there are very few other choices left in America anymore.......it just disheartens me that this is what America has come down to.

Everyone sees the writing on the wall here.....both are calling this nation economically Fascist. Some from a more Capitalist, pro business, perspective....others from a more Socialistic, pro government, perspective.

Everyone sees that what we currently have going on is the worst form of central planning and it is killing this country like a terminal cancer.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
"Bail PEOPLE out! Not Banks!", the protester yelled while tweeting wirelessly on their 3G enabled iPad...

These are the people who instigate larger more dangerous riots in our society. They are the tip of the so called disenfranchised. I believe they heard Obama's out of the slippers and into the marching boots call to arm. Soon, we will be seeing the truly disenfranchised that can't lay on the side walk near Wall street playing with an iPad.

Arm up.

Originally posted by: FSB


I'm pretty sure that's part of the issue. Abuse of public funds, well, not public public, but publicly funded pensions. The pensions WILL get paid. Perhaps not as much, but be it through investment or taxes...the pensions are protected and someone will pay.

Don't be so sure of that.....several dozen cities have went belly up do to excessive cost from public pension plans.

I know of a handful in California alone...Vallejo perhaps being one of the most glaring examples.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/business/rhode-island-city-files-for-bankruptcy.html?pagewanted=all

Sharp cuts in the pensions of people who have already retired are rare. Even in the private sector, a federal pension law prohibits pension cuts unless a company goes bankrupt. The federal government then takes over and covers many retirees’ benefits in full.

Those laws do not cover state or local workers, who generally consider their pensions protected under state law. They point to statutes and court decisions that indicate once a worker has a government job, his pension plan cannot be changed for the duration of his employment.

State workers are about the only people left on Earth still eligible to earn a pension. So shit is getting real.......I was looking at a list of junk bonds, by municipality, and this problem is growing at an all but exponential rate.

Post edited by Mockery at 10/5/2011 2:49:01 PM

Originally posted by: FSB

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
You do realize that most of those public employees are unions, right? How come the article didnt mention that VITAL piece of information?

Both articles mentioned that they were "public pensions", and I provided a source for both. How did YOU find out the articles were talking about public pensions? Did you use your "super sleuth" add on for Firefox? I wasn't trying to hide anything.

Holy shit this is a gem. Are you kidding SS? You didn't know that CalPERs involves unionized public employees? Jesus, no wonder you're so mad all the time. You're constantly discovering all these things you never knew, and it just gets your goat.