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Religious Freedom in Islam

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2011-11-27 · 23 posts


Iranian Pastor Faces Execution for Refusing to Recant Christian Faith
Sep 28, 2011 1:42 PM EDT


An Iranian pastor who has refused to recant his Christian faith faces execution as early as Wednesday after his sentence was upheld by an Iranian court.

Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, who maintains he has never been a Muslim as an adult, has Islamic ancestry and therefore must recant his faith in Jesus Christ, the 11th branch of Iran's Gilan Provincial Court ruled. Iran's Supreme Court had ordered the trial court to determine whether Nadarkhani had been a Muslim prior to converting to Christianity.

The judges, according to the American Center for Law & Justice, demanded that Nadarkhani, 34, recant his Christian faith before submission of evidence. Though the judgment runs against current Iranian and international laws and is not codified in Iranian penal code, the judge stated that the court must uphold the decision of the 27th Branch of the Supreme Court in Qom.

When asked to repent, Nadarkhani stated: "Repent means to return. What should I return to? To the blasphemy that I had before my faith in Christ?"

"To the religion of your ancestors, Islam," the judge replied, according to the American Center for Law & Justice.

"I cannot," Nadarkhani said.

Nadarkhani is the latest Christian cleric to be imprisoned in Iran for his religious beliefs. According to Elam Ministries, a United Kingdom-based organization that serves Christian churches in Iran, there was a significant increase in the number of Christians arrested solely for practicing their faith between June 2010 and January. A total of 202 arrests occurred during that six-month period, including 33 people who remained in prison as of January, Elam reported. 

An Assyrian evangelical pastor, Rev. Wilson Issavi, was imprisoned for 54 days for allegedly converting Muslims prior to his release in March 2010, Elam officials told FoxNews.com.

Nadarkhani, a pastor in the 400-member Church of Iran, has been held in that countrys Gilan Province since October 2009, after he protested to local education authorities that his child was forced to read from the Koran at school. His wife, Fatemeh Pasandideh, was also arrested in June 2010 in an apparent attempt to pressure him to renounce his faith. She was released in October 2010, according to Amnesty International.

Nadarkhani was sentenced to death for apostasy last September based on religious writings by Iranian clerics, including Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, despite the fact that there is no offense of "apostasy" in the nation's penal code, Amnesty International reports.

In June, the Supreme Court of Iran ruled that a lower court should re-examine procedural flaws in the case, giving local judges the power to decide whether to release, execute or retry Nadarkhani. The verdict, according to Amnesty International, includes a provision for the sentence to be overturned should Nadarkhani renounce his faith.

Elise Auerbach, an Iranian analyst for Amnesty International USA, told FoxNews.com that an execution for apostasy has not been carried out in Iran since 1990. Nadarkhani's sentence is a "clear violation of international law," she said.

"The key is to keep up the pressure and to publicize the story because it obviously outrages most people," Auerbach said. "It's part of the pattern of persecution based on religion in Iran."

Kiri Kankhwende, a spokeswoman for Christian Solidarity Worldwide, a human rights organization that specializes in religious freedom, told FoxNews.com that Nadarkhani was asked for the fourth time to renounce his faith during a hearing early Wednesday and he denied that request.

"We're waiting to hear the final outcome," she told FoxNews.com. We're still waiting to hear what they've decided."

Kankhwende said Nadarkhani could be executed Wednesday or Thursday.

"Iran is unpredictable," she said. "We can't say when it might happen. It's a very real threat, but we can't say when exactly."

Calls seeking comment from the U.S. State Department were not returned. Attempts to reach attorney, Mohammed Ali Dadkhah, were not successful.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Nadarkhani's case is "distressing for people of every country and creed," according to a statement released on Wednesday.

"While Iran's government claims to promote tolerance, it continues to imprison many of its people because of their faith," the statement read. "This goes beyond the law to an issue of fundamental respect for human dignity. I urge Iran's leaders to abandon this dark path, spare [Nadarkhani's] life, and grant him a full and unconditional release."

Father Jonathan Morris, a Roman Catholic priest in the Archdiocese of New York and an analyst for Fox News Channel, said Nadarkhani's case is "unmistakable evidence" that Iran is executing Christians simply because they refuse to become Muslims.

Morris continued: "Will President Obama, and the free world, allow the United Nations to continue in its cowardly silence on this matter?"


 
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So basically another example of Islamic barbarism. No religious freedom and death if you leave Islam. Sure sounds like a religion of peace
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"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
No.. not Islam... just Iran.
Originally posted by: Bibimbap
No.. not Islam... just Iran.
Is that so? when I get home I will provide plenty of examples outside of Iran





Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

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"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
Originally posted by: Bibimbap
No.. not Islam... just Iran.


No, Apostasy, is the most serious offense in the Muslim religion. It is very serious. While you might not get a death sentence in the US or other progressive Islamic areas, you would be given the most severe punishment allowed by local law.

Apostasy in Islam
is commonly defined in Islam as the rejection in word or deed of one's former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam. The Qur'an itself does not prescribe any earthly punishment for apostasy, but the Hadiths do. According to the four mainstream schools of Islamic law (sharia), its punishment is execution, but a minority of Islamic scholars propose no punishment at all as long as they "do not work against the Muslim society or nation."

According to Islamic law, apostasy is identified by a list of actions such as conversion to another religion, denying the existence of God, rejecting the prophets, mocking God or the prophets, idol worship, rejecting the sharia, or permitting behavior that is forbidden by the sharia



So when they say "no punishment" they mean that it would be illegal to execute you or beat you or stone you or other harsh punishment so instead you would be completely cast out.

You family would reject you, friends, if you worked for an employer of Islamic faith you would be fired, your wife would be considered divorced.


This type of punishment is common in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen, and many other Islamic countries where the Koran and/or Sharia law is considered the law of the land.

While the US, UK, European Muslims may seem more moderate on this subject, it is more likely they are just complying with local law that restricts these harsh actions.


There is no crime worse than Apostasy in Islam.

Not true Apostasy since the guy claims he was never Muslim in the first place.

Additionally, there's no written law in Iran for apostasy
Originally posted by: From Snake's copy/paste
Nadarkhani was sentenced to death for apostasy last September based on religious writings by Iranian clerics, including Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, despite the fact that there is no offense of "apostasy" in the nation's penal code, Amnesty International reports.


This is just the nutty zealots in Iran being nutty zealots.
You don't see shit like this in Indonesia.
Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Not true Apostasy since the guy claims he was never Muslim in the first place.

Additionally, there's no written law in Iran for apostasy
Originally posted by: From Snake's copy/paste
Nadarkhani was sentenced to death for apostasy last September based on religious writings by Iranian clerics, including Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, despite the fact that there is no offense of "apostasy" in the nation's penal code, Amnesty International reports.


This is just the nutty zealots in Iran being nutty zealots.
You don't see shit like this in Indonesia.
O'really? http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/indonesia-muslim-mob-attacks-american-family-accused-of-proselytizing.html
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"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Not true Apostasy since the guy claims he was never Muslim in the first place.

Additionally, there's no written law in Iran for apostasy
Originally posted by: From Snake's copy/paste
Nadarkhani was sentenced to death for apostasy last September based on religious writings by Iranian clerics, including Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, despite the fact that there is no offense of "apostasy" in the nation's penal code, Amnesty International reports.


This is just the nutty zealots in Iran being nutty zealots.
You don't see shit like this in Indonesia.
O'really? http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/indonesia-muslim-mob-attacks-american-family-accused-of-proselytizing.html

Apples and oranges, dude.

The article you linked shows violence towards Americans accused of trying to convert muslims an it's not sponsored by the government.
Police, who had already been deployed in the area to pre-empt acts of violence, was able to intervene and prevent the worse.

However, the family had to be moved to avoid possible deaths and injuries, Southeast Sulawesi Deputy Police Chief Senior Superintendent Ari Dono Sukmanto said....


The case of the Iranian Pastor is a government issue... It's not a random mob of zealots, it's institutionalized zealots.


edit:
Let me put it in terms you might understand.

- South Africa practiced Apartheid, which made it legal to discriminate against the blacks of S. Africa. (your 1st article)
- In YOUR part of Ohio, the KKK burns a cross on the lawn of a black family... (your 2nd article)

Apples and oranges, man.

Post edited by Bibimbap at 9/28/2011 2:12:14 PM
Sharia law trumps any penal code in a majority of Islamic countries. The court is ruling it IS Apostasy, the guy is saying it isn't. The basis for the court was he comes from an Islamic family therefore he is born into Islam.

You see shit like this in many, but not all Islamic countries. In Pakistan if a man dishoners himself they still allow ritual rape of his sister or other female relative. It's not official Pakistani law, rarely gets reported in the national news, but it happens.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap

You don't see shit like this in Indonesia.


Indonesia
Indonesia's province of Aceh has passed a new law making adultery punishable by stoning to death, a member of the province's parliament has said.


So just because it doesn't make it to court in Indonesia doesn't mean that a local community doesn't enforce Sharia and stone an Apostate.


Post edited by Bigguns 93 at 9/28/2011 2:15:42 PM
Originally posted by: Bibimbap

Let me put it in terms you might understand.

- South Africa practiced Apartheid, which made it legal to discriminate against the blacks of S. Africa. (your 1st article)
- In YOUR part of Ohio, the KKK burns a cross on the lawn of a black family... (your 2nd article)

Apples and oranges, man.

One being gov't sponsored, the other being an offense against the law.
Post edited by Bibimbap at 9/28/2011 2:21:36 PM
Obama is an apostate. No wonder he kisses Muslim ass.
Mack. You are back peddling
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"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
Glad to see this blasphemer put down!! All those that reject Allah deserve death! Jihad!
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Mack. You are back peddling
How is that?
Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Mack. You are back peddling
How is that?
I know you are not this dumb. You are trolling for sumding!


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"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
Refusing to Kill Daughter, Pakistani Family Defies Tradition, Draws Anger

Kind Regards,
Need a new signature?

(V) ( ಠ,,,,ಠ ) (V)

Why not Zoidberg??
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Mack. You are back peddling
How is that?
I know you are not this dumb. You are trolling for sumding!


No... I think I'm rather intelligent, but I fail to see your assertion... Show me where I'm back-peddling. There aren't that many posts to read through.
Originally posted by: Bigguns 93

Originally posted by: Bibimbap

You don't see shit like this in Indonesia.

Indonesia
Indonesia's province of Aceh has passed a new law making adultery punishable by stoning to death, a member of the province's parliament has said.



Shit like that does happen in Indonesia, so you were wrong apples or oranges. Notice the quote "pass a law", so you are wrong it is apples to apples.

Sharia law IS THE LAW to the majority of Muslims, and it is Islamic law. So apples to apples, you are wrong. The KKK came up with their own set of rules and didn't just decided to apply Apartheid on a personal level. That comparison to Sharia is apples and oranges.

In a 2007 University of Maryland poll (PDF), more than 60 percent of the populations in Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, and Indonesia responded that democracy was a good way to govern their respective countries, while at the same time, an average of 71 percent agreed with requiring "strict application of [sharia] law in every Islamic country."



You have an opinion and your set on defending the opinion of your desired impression. It just isn't supported by fact.


Edit - just want to add a count down till someone trying to twist my words to say all Muslims are evil or terrorists or that Islam is inherently evil. Never said nor implied those things. Doubt this note will stop the spin.


Post edited by Bigguns 93 at 9/28/2011 3:43:55 PM
Originally posted by: Bigguns 93

You have an opinion and your set on defending the opinion of your desired impression.

Well, I was going to post this news story this morning because I disagree with what the government of Iran is doing in this case... Government sponsored execution over religion is very foreign to me, and something I do not condone.


But to say that ALL of Islam is this intolerant is facetious. Even the stats, that 71%... a lot... not necessarily ALL.

I chose Indonesia as an example, because of all the muslim/religious controlled nations, they seem to be the most moderate... it's the largest muslim country, but not nearly as nutty.

Look at the woman in Saudi Arabia who's getting 10 lashes for driving.
Shit's absurd.

But comparing this government sponsored execution to a mob of zealots illegally burning someone's property? C'mon... you're not that dull.
Post edited by Bibimbap at 9/28/2011 3:45:03 PM
Originally posted by: Bibimbap

Look at the woman in Saudi Arabia who's getting 10 lashes for driving.
Shit's absurd.


Revoked.

Kind Regards,
Need a new signature?

(V) ( ಠ,,,,ಠ ) (V)

Why not Zoidberg??
Saudi is trying to curb its S&M...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/09/28/saudi-king-reportedly-revokes-lashing-sentence-for-female-driver/

Saudi King Abdullah has reportedly revoked the sentence of 10 lashes imposed on a woman for driving in the conservative kingdom.

Saudi Princess Ameerah Al-Taweel, wife of billionaire Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Amira, announced the development Wednesday on her Twitter account.

"Thank God, the lashing of Sheima is cancelled," the posting read. "Thanks to our beloved King. I'm sure all Saudi women will be so happy, I know I am."


Originally posted by: Bibimbap
Originally posted by: Bigguns 93

You have an opinion and your set on defending the opinion of your desired impression.

Well, I was going to post this news story this morning because I disagree with what the government of Iran is doing in this case... Government sponsored execution over religion is very foreign to me, and something I do not condone.


But to say that ALL of Islam is this intolerant is facetious. Even the stats, that 71%... a lot... not necessarily ALL.

I chose Indonesia as an example, because of all the muslim/religious controlled nations, they seem to be the most moderate... it's the largest muslim country, but not nearly as nutty.

Look at the woman in Saudi Arabia who's getting 10 lashes for driving.
Shit's absurd.

But comparing this government sponsored execution to a mob of zealots illegally burning someone's property? C'mon... you're not that dull.
Bigguns beat me to it. I would agree that certainly Indonesia is better than Iran but we are a long, long way before Islam overall condones peace and non-violence
_______________________________________________________________
"You get more with kind words and a gun than you do with just kind words"
Originally posted by: Bibimbap

I chose Indonesia as an example, because of all the muslim/religious controlled nations, they seem to be the most moderate... it's the largest muslim country, but not nearly as nutty.


Originally posted by: Bigguns 93

Indonesia's province of Aceh has passed a new law making adultery punishable by stoning to death, a member of the province's parliament has said.


Still don't get how you believe this doesn't happen in Indonesia. THEY PASSED A LAW TO STONE YOU TO DEATH. Not Sharia law, but a legal statute.

, an average of 71 percent agreed with requiring "strict application of [sharia] law in every Islamic country."



71 percent of INDONESIA as well as Eygpt, Morocco, and our "allie" Pakistan support STRICT APPLICATION of Sharia Law. I know you have conjecture and opinion, but that does not trump actually polling people in those countries.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap

But to say that ALL of Islam is this intolerant is facetious. Even the stats, that 71%... a lot... not necessarily ALL.


Originally posted by: Bigguns 93

Edit - just want to add a count down till someone trying to twist my words to say all Muslims are evil or terrorists or that Islam is inherently evil. Never said nor implied those things. Doubt this note will stop the spin.




And there it is as predicted. Even though I specifically state I never said all Muslims are evil or terrorists or Islam is violent....even though I predicted someone would try to conveniently pretend I said that... you go ahead and say it.


Post edited by Bigguns 93 at 9/28/2011 9:43:19 PM
Islam is a religion. People want power over other people. People use the religion of Islam to maintain control. This isn't just about Islamic edicts that lend some implicit endorsement to lashing out at others. This is about decisions by people to lash out at those who are outside their control. The government of Iran has blood on their hands. Not just the blood of this man, should he be executed, but the blood of all those they have killed in their thirst for power.

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