US Military overpaid?

A Jan­u­ary 20, 2011 report by the non­par­ti­san Con­gres­sional Bud­get Office indi­cates that mil­i­tary per­son­nel are paid more than most fed­eral civil­ian employ­ees. The CBO report, which was requested by Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), attempts to com­pare reg­u­lar mil­i­tary com­pen­sa­tion (base pay, basic allowance for sub­sis­tence, and basic allowance for hous­ing) with the fed­eral cash com­pen­sa­tion (salary and over­time).

Sev­eral news sources and blogs have picked up the fact that the CBO report indi­cates that a typ­i­cal ser­vice­mem­ber is paid more than 75 per­cent of “com­pa­ra­ble fed­eral civil­ian” workers. Some are using the CBO report to sup­port the argue­ment that the mil­i­tary is paid too much.

Specif­i­cally, the report states that the “median for enlisted per­son­nel in 2010 exceeded cash com­pen­sa­tion for most fed­eral civil­ian employ­ees with a high school degree and per­haps some col­lege edu­ca­tion.” In addi­tion, the report’s author writes, “median cash com­pen­sa­tion for enlisted per­son­nel was at least as high as the 75th per­centile of earn­ings for fed­eral work­ers with com­pa­ra­ble work expe­ri­ence.” The find­ings were sim­i­lar for mil­i­tary offi­cers when com­pared to their coun­ter­parts.

But is the com­par­i­son fair?
Many fed­eral civil­ian work­ers may cor­rectly argue that they serve in harms way along­side active duty mem­bers and have com­pa­ra­ble cir­cum­stances. How­ever, the CBO appears to see it oth­er­wise. In fact, the final sec­tion of the report lists the fac­tors which make com­par­ing the two com­pen­sa­tion sys­tems dif­fi­cult. Not the least of which are what the report refers to as the “intan­gi­bles.” These intan­gi­bles include fre­quent relo­ca­tions, deploy­ments, greater respon­si­bil­ity at ear­lier career points, and haz­ardous work­ing con­di­tions, not to men­tion the unlim­ited work hours (24/7 on call). The report’s author states that quan­ti­fy­ing those intan­gi­ble ele­ments among mil­i­tary and fed­eral civil­ians is “extremely dif­fi­cult.”

Note: The report also men­tions the com­bat fac­tor, but com­bat related com­pen­sa­tion was not included in the direct cash com­par­i­son.
....

http://militaryadvantage.military.com/2011/01/report-military-paid-more-than-federal-workers/?ESRC=retirees.nl

=======================

We need to transition back to a draft and not allow ANY college exemptions either (you can go after you have done your time). Everyone serves. Therefore the Armed Forces wont be forced to compete for applicants of an all volunteer force. Isnt that a great idea Abaques?

Cops in NJ are overpaid.... everyone in the country is underpaid compared to NJ cops.

That's a FACT.

edit:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/nj_police_salaries_rank_highes.html

N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation with median pay of $90,672
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...
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...Last year, Closter had the sixth-best-paid department in New Jersey, with a median salary of $122,181 before overtime. Seventeen of its 20 officers, including Aiello, made at least $100,000.
...
...
...
A Star-Ledger analysis shows the average municipal cop in New Jersey is paid 80 percent more than the average resident, and three of 10 made at least $100,000 last year. In addition, police tend to be paid the best in small towns with little crime.
...
...
...
Last year, Closter police earned a total of $157,190 in overtime, Chief David Berrian said, about $7,859 per officer. This year they’ve capped overtime at $125,000, but Berrian expects the department to hit that limit Oct. 1.

Edison, where 164 of 186 officers made six figures last year, paid out $790,946.62 in overtime, about $4,252 per officer, local union President Keith Hahn said. Overtime costs are up 9.9 percent from last year because the town has lost officers, Hahn said.

edit2:
Let me tell you... the one kid who worked for me as a stock boy at the pharmacy, joined the force in town... kid's been on the job 10 years now, is making 6 figures. I should've became a Jersey cop... wouldn't have had to go to college or anything.
Another 10 years, the kid'll be in his mid 40's and able to retire with a shitload of pension... ~$80K/year

fuck him!
Post edited by Bibimbap at 2/8/2011 9:17:58 AM

You read my mind Mack. I was about to post asking for a link, and when I clicked "Quote" it was there.

Nice work & good read.

Yeah... my brother-in-law is a cop in Jersey... and he bitches and moans about Gov. Christie... and how he's screwing the cops, etc...

Listen... I'm not retiring in my mid-40s to mid-50s with more pension money than what the average salaried person in the state makes.

I totally understand that being a cop is a tough job... but... come ON!
The worst is that when these guys retire, if they don't got their thumbs in a 2nd job in the state... they get the fuck out of Jersey, move down to N.Carolina or some shit, and live like friggin KINGS with their pensions, working part time as a bouncer in Myrtle Beach or some shit.

So it's not like Jersey's getting any of that money back in taxes.

So I just nod, and say... "oh yeah... what a jerk that Christie, uh huh...."

Fuck the police. This thread is about bashing our overpaid military. gtfo.

I got a friend, my buddie in the 173rd. He's 508th PIR, still infantry... I don't think he makes a lot of money.

I mean... they're able to SAVE a ton of money, but make money?
meh.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-

A Jan­u­ary 20, 2011 report by the non­par­ti­san Con­gres­sional Bud­get Office indi­cates that mil­i­tary per­son­nel are paid more than most fed­eral civil­ian employ­ees. The CBO report, which was requested by Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), attempts to com­pare reg­u­lar mil­i­tary com­pen­sa­tion (base pay, basic allowance for sub­sis­tence, and basic allowance for hous­ing) with the fed­eral cash com­pen­sa­tion (salary and over­time).

Sev­eral news sources and blogs have picked up the fact that the CBO report indi­cates that a typ­i­cal ser­vice­mem­ber is paid more than 75 per­cent of “com­pa­ra­ble fed­eral civil­ian” workers. Some are using the CBO report to sup­port the argue­ment that the mil­i­tary is paid too much.

Specif­i­cally, the report states that the “median for enlisted per­son­nel in 2010 exceeded cash com­pen­sa­tion for most fed­eral civil­ian employ­ees with a high school degree and per­haps some col­lege edu­ca­tion.” In addi­tion, the report’s author writes, “median cash com­pen­sa­tion for enlisted per­son­nel was at least as high as the 75th per­centile of earn­ings for fed­eral work­ers with com­pa­ra­ble work expe­ri­ence.” The find­ings were sim­i­lar for mil­i­tary offi­cers when com­pared to their coun­ter­parts.

But is the com­par­i­son fair?
Many fed­eral civil­ian work­ers may cor­rectly argue that they serve in harms way along­side active duty mem­bers and have com­pa­ra­ble cir­cum­stances. How­ever, the CBO appears to see it oth­er­wise. In fact, the final sec­tion of the report lists the fac­tors which make com­par­ing the two com­pen­sa­tion sys­tems dif­fi­cult. Not the least of which are what the report refers to as the “intan­gi­bles.” These intan­gi­bles include fre­quent relo­ca­tions, deploy­ments, greater respon­si­bil­ity at ear­lier career points, and haz­ardous work­ing con­di­tions, not to men­tion the unlim­ited work hours (24/7 on call). The report’s author states that quan­ti­fy­ing those intan­gi­ble ele­ments among mil­i­tary and fed­eral civil­ians is “extremely dif­fi­cult.”

Note: The report also men­tions the com­bat fac­tor, but com­bat related com­pen­sa­tion was not included in the direct cash com­par­i­son.
....

http://militaryadvantage.military.com/2011/01/report-military-paid-more-than-federal-workers/?ESRC=retirees.nl

=======================

We need to transition back to a draft and not allow ANY college exemptions either (you can go after you have done your time). Everyone serves. Therefore the Armed Forces wont be forced to compete for applicants of an all volunteer force. Isnt that a great idea Abaques?

Where is what Abaques said that prompted this? I'd like to have the full context of this because I don't think you are serious, but if you are, I disagree with you completely.


I pledge no allegiance to the flag of the United State of America or to the despotism for which it stands, fifty nations, with or without god, totally divisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
I got a friend, my buddie in the 173rd. He's 508th PIR, still infantry... I don't think he makes a lot of money.

I mean... they're able to SAVE a ton of money, but make money?
meh.

Pay scales: http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

Whatever his pay grade and time in service is = base pay on the linked scale. Special skills pay is separate. Example: Your buddy is paid airborne pay since he is in a parachute infantry unit. He wont receive that extra pay when he leaves an active airborne unit and goes to a regular [non-airborne] infantry line unit.

==================

Anyway.

More importantly, I like the idea of a Common Dream, where everyone has a stake in this country. You know... "put some skin in the game" [like the current resident in the WH said] and drafted into the Service at 18 before you can do anything else in life. No college, no companies / corporations, no, nada, nothing. That way we can reduce the pay the troops get and cut back on defense spending. Forget competition since companies / corporations wont be allowed to hire anyone until after they have served the Nation.

I LOVE this idea. Think of the possibilities here.

Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
Where is what Abaques said that prompted this? I'd like to have the full context of this because I don't think you are serious, but if you are, I disagree with you completely.

O, he thinks I am a hypocrite for criticizing the gvt even though I [supposedly] made a living off of it -"living off the gvt tit" to paraphrase his words. He has avoided replying ever since apologizing to the admins [to stay in their good graces, which equals inability to discuss and full of CYA] and bowing out of the thread. What a shame.

Whats wrong with the framework of this discussion?

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
I got a friend, my buddie in the 173rd. He's 508th PIR, still infantry... I don't think he makes a lot of money.

I mean... they're able to SAVE a ton of money, but make money?
meh.

Pay scales: http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

Whatever his pay grade and time in service is = base pay on the linked scale. Special skills pay is separate. Example: Your buddy is paid airborne pay since he is in a parachute infantry unit. He wont receive that extra pay when he leaves an active airborne unit and goes to a regular [non-airborne] infantry line unit.

His base pay sucks ass.
He should've left after Tiqrit and became a cop in Jersey.

He'd be making more than double his base by now.

Being in the military isn't like what it used to be, there are a TON of creature comforts that the old troops just never saw. That being said, I don't think they are overpaid, but they certainly aren't underpaid either.

@ Mack. Why hate on him for making a living? You really came off as an elitist with that comment, an arrogant elitist.

Who says I'm throwing the hate out on him?

Dude, guy joined the army LATE.
He was 27 when he joined... We're all turning 40 next year... and he's got another 7 years to go AFTER that.

We're getting all too old for range walks and jumping. You wanna be jumping and doing range walks at 40?
Much less 47?

And he did TRY getting an office job. He was an observer at Polk a few years ago after Afghanistan.
He HATED it. Too much politicking... he was dying to go back to infantry... but I was like... Dude, we ain't getting any younger, when're you coming back to Jersey? You can get a job as a cop, get extra pay for doing SWAT... that's what all the retired Marines are doing... they get paid a shitload, to do what? Patrol the Short Hills Mall?

Originally posted by: =>PX<=Major
.

@ Mack. Why hate on him for making a living? You really came off as an elitist with that comment, an arrogant elitist.

To quote Hank Jr in reference to New York/ New Jersey folks:
"these people never smile or say a word, they're all to busy trying to make an extra dime"

Don't hate on Mack, he's just being what God made him, a Yankee.



I pledge no allegiance to the flag of the United State of America or to the despotism for which it stands, fifty nations, with or without god, totally divisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest

Originally posted by: =>PX<=Major
.

@ Mack. Why hate on him for making a living? You really came off as an elitist with that comment, an arrogant elitist.

To quote Hank Jr in reference to New York/ New Jersey folks:
"these people never smile or say a word, they're all to busy trying to make an extra dime"

Don't hate on Mack, he's just being what God made him, a Yankee.

Whoa.....

Mack, I was referring to the cop(former employee).

I have been in the military for a total of seven years. Since being in the military I've been trained in two fields the most recent was to become a pilot. I have a mercedes a nice house and a reasonably secure job. Some people would consider that wealthy, however it is middle class at best, we just get to save alot. At 7 years of service as an officer with all of the incentive pays I make around 65,000/year. Do you consider that wealthy? How much would you expect to get paid from the risk of flying around in a combat zone getting shot at, or driving up and down a supply route in a humvee with the immediate fear of an IED could rip your vehicle apart any day just like it had happened to 10 or so of your fellow soldiers in recent months. I really dont have to mention the door kickers and what they have to see and deal with, not to mention the years away from home? If you signed up in 2003 you have probably already spent 4+ years in the armpit of the world away from your family/friends and online video gaming....

Over paid hardly, police officer and fireman and alot of other professions to include the rest of the military are definetly underpaid.

Oh... HIM!

Actually, no, he's a good kid.
I have TWO metal PBA cards stating I'm related to a cop. These things are GREAT! One is from my brother-in-law, the other is from this kid... the things are good for life.

All I have to do is find an excuse to use it. :/


But I'm actually very happy for him. Kid never went to college, his parents weren't college people. Strictly blue collar. He became a cop, his Italian mom was lamenting, etc... but he did REAL good for himself.

It's just he's lucky enough to be a cop in Jersey. He's actually making about $20K more than my brother-in-law because this town pays ridiculous salaries... and my brother-in-law has been on the job 10 years longer than this kid.

Both of them annoy me when they complain about money.

I'm on the books for a good amount... I'd say they're making a little more. But I'm supporting a wife and 3 kids and I'm still booking trips to the DR.
Why are THEY bitching about cash flow? I don't understand.

The thing about the military is (and I think they account for this in the article) they also get housing allowances/utilities/travel etc. So if you are making a BASE salary of 50K, you also have to include the incentives.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap

Let me tell you... the one kid who worked for me as a stock boy at the pharmacy, joined the force in town... kid's been on the job 10 years now, is making 6 figures. I should've became a Jersey cop... wouldn't have had to go to college or anything.
Another 10 years, the kid'll be in his mid 40's and able to retire with a shitload of pension... ~$80K/year

fuck him!

If it makes you feel better this whole charade isn't going to last that long.

Originally posted by: questionmark

Originally posted by: Bibimbap

Let me tell you... the one kid who worked for me as a stock boy at the pharmacy, joined the force in town... kid's been on the job 10 years now, is making 6 figures. I should've became a Jersey cop... wouldn't have had to go to college or anything.
Another 10 years, the kid'll be in his mid 40's and able to retire with a shitload of pension... ~$80K/year

fuck him!

If it makes you feel better this whole charade isn't going to last that long.

Yeah... they all hate Gov.Christie right now... my brother-in-law is fully vested in his pension, and he's bitching that he might have to retire early to take advantage of whatever pension he's got IF the governor changes shit around.

So... the towns have cut down the police force because of budget concerns, and we'll probably see a lot of the $100K+ guys retire early to keep their pensions. So the state will be a terrible mess... ummm... more of a terrible mess.


edit:
So my BIL is a cop now, 22 years. Every extra year over 20, he gets a few % more on his pension... So as an example, let's say he's at 75% in pension. He want's to stay to get it to 80%... but Gov.Christie if fucking it up for him.
Post edited by Bibimbap at 2/8/2011 12:12:30 PM

On topic: For most of human history people joined the military for the food and a nice uniform or because they were forced into it. The fact that joining the military is a career move at this point is definitive proof that not only are they overpaid but that it is way too cushy compared to what it used to be. The military isn't supposed to be some kind of step up for people, it's supposed to be a defensive force that protects your homeland from invaders.

2008 Asbury Park Press Database

A few years ago, the Asbury Park Press got the salaries of the gov't workers in the state. It included teachers, town administrators, police, and firemen.

So this is the 2008 result of the Police and Firemen's retirement fund, showing the salaries of the members who will benefit from the fund.

These salaries are out of control!
Post edited by Bibimbap at 2/8/2011 12:20:57 PM

Originally posted by: questionmark
On topic: For most of human history people joined the military for the food and a nice uniform or because they were forced into it. The fact that joining the military is a career move at this point is definitive proof that not only are they overpaid but that it is way too cushy compared to what it used to be. The military isn't supposed to be some kind of step up for people, it's supposed to be a defensive force that protects your homeland from invaders.

Depends on where in history you look for your source of what 'normal' is for a military.

Many ancient militaries were so successful not because they always played defense from aggressors trying to invade their country, but because they went out and conquered everyone else around them.

It wasn't always about pushing another military off your home land, that wasn't enough for some people, they had to push other militaries off foreign lands as well. This had its own rewards, of course, which made many nations extremely rich for some time.


This concept about what the military should be is really nothing more than an opinion, because if we look back in history we see that those militaries deemed most advanced and successful at their period of time often acted as conquerors at some point, enriching their nations and themselves.


One could say these most successful militaries were a 'step up' for their entire nation - sending back plunder from other nations.
Post edited by Coba|t at 2/8/2011 12:24:54 PM

My point wasn't that militaries were rarely aggressive, it was that people who joined the military usually did so for little to no pay and because they had little choice in the matter. Today's military where people join for the money or as a career move is a complete anomaly.

Originally posted by: questionmark
My point wasn't that militaries were rarely aggressive, it was that people who joined the military usually did so for little to no pay and because they had little choice in the matter. Today's military where people join for the money or as a career move is a complete anomaly.

Uh, my point was that at many points in history militaries were getting filthy rich by hoarding plunder in massive quantities as they'd push other rivals off their land. They accrued more members from home and abroad who wanted to share in that wealth. The most prominent example in ancient times was Alexander the Great's military. Many of his generals became kings/emperors/ruling class of their conquered lands upon his death. Probably the best career move they could've made.

It depends on where in history you wish to look for the 'normal' military you're trying to describe.

The conquistadors are another example.

Who was the guy pushing for the draft when Bush was in office? Oh yea it was that lying criminal Charles Rangle.

Originally posted by: Coba|t

Originally posted by: questionmark
My point wasn't that militaries were rarely aggressive, it was that people who joined the military usually did so for little to no pay and because they had little choice in the matter. Today's military where people join for the money or as a career move is a complete anomaly.

Uh, my point was that at many points in history militaries were getting filthy rich by hoarding plunder in massive quantities as they'd push other rivals off their land. They accrued more members from home and abroad who wanted to share in that wealth. The most prominent example in ancient times was Alexander the Great's military. Many of his generals became kings/emperors/ruling class of their conquered lands upon his death. Probably the best career move they could've made.

It depends on where in history you wish to look for the 'normal' military you're trying to describe.

The conquistadors are another example.

Military leadership has almost always been made up of privileged members from the elite classes. I'm talking about the average soldier that's usually either conscripted against his will or joins because he's too poor to feed himself.

Originally posted by: questionmark
On topic: For most of human history people joined the military for the food and a nice uniform or because they were forced into it. The fact that joining the military is a career move at this point is definitive proof that not only are they overpaid but that it is way too cushy compared to what it used to be. The military isn't supposed to be some kind of step up for people, it's supposed to be a defensive force that protects your homeland from invaders.

Arent you a person of little means?

So if they are overpaid, why havent you signed up to improve your lot in life based upon your very young and highly inexperienced age? Its not as if you have anything going for you except eyeball licking, playing quake3 all day, and rare opportunities to do illicit drugs.

What did you just say about yourself? Is it because you arent smart enough to improve your means, that you dont have the courage to defend your homeland, both, or some other reason thats too embarrassing to state?

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
So if they are overpaid, why havent you signed up to improve your lot in life based upon your very young and highly inexperienced age? Its not as if you have anything going for you except eyeball licking, playing quake3 all day, and rare opportunities to do illicit drugs.

Because doing illegal drugs prohibits you from military service?

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-

Originally posted by: questionmark
On topic: For most of human history people joined the military for the food and a nice uniform or because they were forced into it. The fact that joining the military is a career move at this point is definitive proof that not only are they overpaid but that it is way too cushy compared to what it used to be. The military isn't supposed to be some kind of step up for people, it's supposed to be a defensive force that protects your homeland from invaders.

Arent you a person of little means?

So if they are overpaid, why havent you signed up to improve your lot in life based upon your very young and highly inexperienced age? Its not as if you have anything going for you except eyeball licking, playing quake3 all day, and rare opportunities to do illicit drugs.

What did you just say about yourself? Is it because you arent smart enough to improve your means, that you dont have the courage to defend your homeland, both, or some other reason thats too embarrassing to state?

Nice try grandpa. If I were to join the military it would only be as an officer.

two things.

1. You have to graduate first.
2. Your drug test needs to be clean.




One of these may be difficult for you.

Originally posted by: Bibimbap
two things.

1. You have to graduate first.
2. Your drug test needs to be clean.

One of these may be difficult for you.

Actually, neither are an issue. I just have no interest in joining the military right now.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-

Originally posted by: Nathan Bedford Forrest
Where is what Abaques said that prompted this? I'd like to have the full context of this because I don't think you are serious, but if you are, I disagree with you completely.

O, he thinks I am a hypocrite for criticizing the gvt even though I [supposedly] made a living off of it -"living off the gvt tit" to paraphrase his words. He has avoided replying ever since apologizing to the admins [to stay in their good graces, which equals inability to discuss and full of CYA] and bowing out of the thread. What a shame.

Whats wrong with the framework of this discussion?

A few points here:

1. I do not believe that the military is overpaid. I do believe that contractors play too big of a roll in the military and many of them are overpaid. No where but in your mind have I ever stated anything implying otherwise.

2. The thread I replied to you in was about a different topic and it was wrong to bring our disagreement from a locked thread into that thread.

3. You are a hypocrite. You were in the military for a long time and the salary the Army paid you was how you paid the bills. Therefore it is hypocritical to decry paying taxes as some form of theft (which you were doing in that thread) when those taxes paid your salary. This isn't implying that you're on welfare, simply that Uncle Sam paid your salary. You took that statement completely out of context and ran with it.

4. It is petty and childish to create a thread to troll like you did here.

Originally posted by: questionmark


If I were to join the military it would only be as an officer.

I would pay good money to see that. I genuinely don't think you'd make it through basic(it'd depend on the branch).

I'd like to see you succeed as a person, but it'd be a priceless journey to watch.

I'm in favor of a war-time draft because it would create a lot more popular opposition to war.

Let me say this.

I was in the parachute infantry. As an E-4, my take home pay was about $1400/mo...thats with the $150/mo hazard pay for jumping.

They did a 'study' on what our total compensation was then. It took into account our meals and housing...which is where ALL the fudging comes in. 2 people to a room which was no bigger than 10x20. Thats for all of your belongings...the both of you. Bunk bed, dressers, closet furniture, and a desk. Think of it as a prison cell that you're free to decorate.

Food...food was sufficient, not great, but not worth bitching about either. However, they did way over value it in their study...mostly because nobody used it for dinners when we were in garrison. You get sick of it, and you want something real, so most of my platoon got something else come night time.

Then...what they dont take into account, are the hours. Ya, some military ppl work a cush job and have regular hours. We were on duty 5:45-5:00, no exceptions...thats when we were in garrison. In the feild, you're on duty around the clock, working your ass off. Ask a civilian how much money it would take for them to strap a vest of 40MM grenades to their chest, IMT 100 yards after a 200 yard sprint, jump into a trench where you live fire engage targets, frag bunkers, gun teams covering...oh and its night, after a dry fire and blank fire. I'd venture to say the monthly compensation is on the low side after they do that for about 5 nights in a row...or in the case of a big training event, 20 nights in a row. Come on back in and spend 2 days doing weapons cleaning and laundry.

Ya, the "estimates" are total bullshit. The AC in our barracks didnt even work. The entire platoon that lived in teh barraks shared ONE washer, ONE dryer, TWO shower heads, THREE toilets, and four sinks.

I don't think they are overpaid. But I do think the average American is underpaid and undereducated on how to handle money.

Originally posted by: subroutine
I don't think they are overpaid. But I do think the average American is underpaid and undereducated on how to handle money.

Ditto.

Food/credit cards are teh biggest offender. Now that you can get fast food on a credit card, its like its free food. At least before you had to actually fork over the cash.

People spend so much on food alone, credit cards can get out of control fast.

Since people - young people - dont deal with cash as much anymore, I think they dont fully understand the value of money since they dont physically see it or use it as much. Its just a number that you can fudge because you have credit...until something happens.

But ya, the banking industry has totally let america get out of control with spending - be it auto, home, or general credit. Its retarded.

Originally posted by: questionmark
My point wasn't that militaries were rarely aggressive, it was that people who joined the military usually did so for little to no pay and because they had little choice in the matter. Today's military where people join for the money or as a career move is a complete anomaly.

This has a lot to do with the type of military present in today's world.

Our military is very technology intense and requires vast amounts of training and experience. You used to be able to pull anybody off the street, give them a rifle, have them do some pt, and they'd make a decent soldier. That's not the case anymore.

There are large amounts of training and money that go into turning a civilian into a soldier. Thus the military would prefer to keep a soldier for the extra years than train a new one. Its more economical as well.

Its also true that its easier to stay in beyond your youth with the type of wars being presently fought. It would be very difficult for an enlisted soldier to stay in beyond his prime back in the 1800s when most soldiers were infantrymen, and therefore almost impossible to make it a career.

There are numerous reasons we see career soldiers now, but in today's world you almost have to.

In regards to the OP, I don't think it is the hazardous duty part that requires the 'extra compensation', but instead the lack of control over your life. When you join you are giving everything up to the officers appointed over you and our elected representatives. You don't get to quit your job if it sucks or refuse to do something.

Most of the compensation in place is there for the soldier's family as well. Its tough to have a normal family on active duty when you move so often and usually to remote areas. That makes it almost impossible for your spouse to have a serious career regardless of his/her qualifications.

Originally posted by: 82nd Mofo

Originally posted by: subroutine
I don't think they are overpaid. But I do think the average American is underpaid and undereducated on how to handle money.

Ditto.

Food/credit cards are teh biggest offender. Now that you can get fast food on a credit card, its like its free food. At least before you had to actually fork over the cash.

People spend so much on food alone, credit cards can get out of control fast.

Since people - young people - dont deal with cash as much anymore, I think they dont fully understand the value of money since they dont physically see it or use it as much. Its just a number that you can fudge because you have credit...until something happens.

But ya, the banking industry has totally let america get out of control with spending - be it auto, home, or general credit. Its retarded.

Excellent post!

GJ
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Originally posted by: questionmark
On topic: For most of human history people joined the military for the food and a nice uniform or because they were forced into it. The fact that joining the military is a career move at this point is definitive proof that not only are they overpaid but that it is way too cushy compared to what it used to be. The military isn't supposed to be some kind of step up for people, it's supposed to be a defensive force that protects your homeland from invaders.

Is this kid serious?

Who joined the military as a career move? who joined it for the money? I would love to be introduced to them because I've never met one.

Spend a month training (not even combat) in a Marine Corps infantry battalion where the vast majority of people are E4< and tell me they're overpaid.

You really shouldn't discuss things you don't know shit about.