WTF are we gonna do on this border?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071115/NATION/111150077/1002
"Lawmen under siege along Mexico border
By Jerry Seper
November 15, 2007
Alien and drug smugglers along the U.S.-Mexico border have spawned a rise in violence against federal, state and local law-enforcement authorities, who say they are outmanned and outgunned.
"They've got weapons, high-tech radios, computers, cell phones, Global Positioning Systems, spotters and can react faster than we are able to," said Shawn P. Moran, a 10-year U.S. Border Patrol veteran who serves as vice president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 1613 in San Diego."


how much longer and how much worse does it have to get before someone decides to do something about this? this head in the sand crap burns me up...




"When a true genius appears in this world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-- Jonathan Swift

Considering people like McCain and others that want to shove some bullshit amnesty down our throats, I would assume nothing until we elect people who will put a fence up and hire more border patrolmen!

We apporpriated over a billion dollars to start building a 700 mile fence and last I heard they've built 10 miles!

Let's not forget that our next President wants to give illegals drivers license's.

I suppose we are just going to have to get used to it!
Post edited by Cocytus at 11/15/2007 11:36:59 AM

Originally posted by: Killet
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071115/NATION/111150077/1002
"Lawmen under siege along Mexico border
By Jerry Seper
November 15, 2007
Alien and drug smugglers along the U.S.-Mexico border have spawned a rise in violence against federal, state and local law-enforcement authorities, who say they are outmanned and outgunned.
"They've got weapons, high-tech radios, computers, cell phones, Global Positioning Systems, spotters and can react faster than we are able to," said Shawn P. Moran, a 10-year U.S. Border Patrol veteran who serves as vice president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 1613 in San Diego."


how much longer and how much worse does it have to get before someone decides to do something about this? this head in the sand crap burns me up...

a Texas representative said that he went out to the border with some policemen, and they had a police car way out in front to draw off any hostile fire. and also, the guards down there told him that one time, a tractor-trailer came across the border illegally, and the police chased it down, but it turned around and went back to mexico... and when they got to the border, they were met with fire from mexican troops, which last i checked is an act of war. not necessarily saying we should go to war with mexico, but there you are.
_______________________

Originally posted by: the wierdo
There's nothing like a little child molestation to bring people together and rise above the partisanship

Originally posted by: Pudd¿nheäd
ive been wanting coq for some time now, and im goin for it on sunday!

Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
kok. i want kok. lots of kok.

this thread was brought to you by the letter....

X

Xylophone

Xenophobia

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
......dont get all pissy cause I call you out for being a deceptive piece of shit...Too bad it is such a challenge for you to be a better person. I know I would never trust you in combat or when it counts. The bottom line is that you have no honor and you arent the "good person" you attempt to perpetrate on these forums with threads about "mom and dad" or your kids while you purposely fuck up threads about men who's lives are in the balance over accusations of murder and rape. The very men you just said you appreciate - yeah right. You're garbage aria. No class at all.

We should let the republicans control everything about this country and then NO ONE will want to f*cking come in.

Originally posted by: W. B. Yeats
We should let the republicans control everything about this country and then NO ONE will want to f*cking come in.

yes, we did that for the first 6 years of this century...

deficits, one invasion too many, many int´l embarassments, broken diplomacy, etc etc etc.

yeah, lets elect republicans to all 3 branches again.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
......dont get all pissy cause I call you out for being a deceptive piece of shit...Too bad it is such a challenge for you to be a better person. I know I would never trust you in combat or when it counts. The bottom line is that you have no honor and you arent the "good person" you attempt to perpetrate on these forums with threads about "mom and dad" or your kids while you purposely fuck up threads about men who's lives are in the balance over accusations of murder and rape. The very men you just said you appreciate - yeah right. You're garbage aria. No class at all.

This is a serious problem with no simple solution.

Here are some facts, some of which are unpleasant:

1. A fence simply will not work to keep people out. It simply doesn't make any economic or practical sense. It only sounds good.

2. It is impossible to deport even a sizable fraction of the illegal immigrants currently in this country. This is reality, not hyperbole. There are something like 10-20 million illegals here, the vast majority of whom work jobs. It just isn't feasible to go round them all up.

3. The violence on the border is caused because criminals can make a great deal of money smuggling. Unless we want to declare war on Mexico or bankrupt the nation there simply isn't a forceful way to deal with that. The answer is to remove the market that those smugglers have. They make their money primarily smuggling drugs and migrant workers.



So what I would propose is that we aim to solve the third problem by minimizing the market for illegal drugs and migrant workers. To do so will mean major changes in our economic, social and criminal systems. I would propose the following to do something about it:

1. Decriminalize simple drug possession, particularly pot. Move offenders into treatment to try to get them off drugs instead of just locking them up (but allowing them to keep their habits). This should hopefully have the long term result of lowering the illegal drug market in this country.

2. Enforce very strict labor laws on companies that hire illegal immigrants. If people won't hire illegals then they won't come here.

3. Accept that prices for many goods and services will rise as without cheap illegal labor food will be more expensive to harvest and dishes more expensive to wash. This means adjusting the way that we live our lives and it will have a significant economic impact.

4. Work with Mexico to help build their economy, educational system and police force. A strong Mexico helps solve the illegal immigration problem more then almost any other thing we can do. To some extent we should do the same with the other feeder nations such as Guatemala, but the initial emphasis should be on Mexico.

5. Develop a sensible guest worker program that does not punish either the workers or the companies who need guest laborers.

6. Develop a reasonable plan to deal with all the illegals already here. There needs to be a feasible path towards either citizenship or at least legal residency or any plan will simply fail.


Anyone else have any ideas?

Invade

oh, if only you knew the things our gvt is up to, you would give two fucks about the people who want to come to just work and earn a living.

you worry about the wrong issues. just like they want you to, to keep you buys looking at the wrong end of the field.

Originally posted by: [-NM-] -SS-
......dont get all pissy cause I call you out for being a deceptive piece of shit...Too bad it is such a challenge for you to be a better person. I know I would never trust you in combat or when it counts. The bottom line is that you have no honor and you arent the "good person" you attempt to perpetrate on these forums with threads about "mom and dad" or your kids while you purposely fuck up threads about men who's lives are in the balance over accusations of murder and rape. The very men you just said you appreciate - yeah right. You're garbage aria. No class at all.

We are way past the tipping point. So much inaction in the past has made it so HUGE changes would have to be made. (Refer to Abaques post)

What fears me most is the possibility that things are in motion for the "North American Union" to be established.

Auto-turrets.
___________________________________________
"My answer is to burn all the fucking oil as quick as possible and then the politicians will have to find a solution.” - R.D.

Originally posted by: LoStMaTt
We are way past the tipping point. So much inaction in the past has made it so HUGE changes would have to be made. (Refer to Abaques post)

What fears me most is the possibility that things are in motion for the "North American Union" to be established.

Neither the Republicans nor the democrats are willing to pursue any real solutions. What to do, what to do....

I know, lets just keep voting republicans and democrats into office!



VOTE GREEN PARTY FOR REAL POLITICAL REPRESENTATION! http://www.gp.org

Originally posted by: Abaques
If Snake and Cimat agree on something then I think its case closed.

Originally posted by: LoStMaTt
We are way past the tipping point. So much inaction in the past has made it so HUGE changes would have to be made. (Refer to Abaques post)

What fears me most is the possibility that things are in motion for the "North American Union" to be established.

The bottom line is that you can't implement any sort of reasonable immigration reform until you secure the border. Do so with fences, walls, satellite telemetry, motion sensors, sentry guns...whatever. LOL

Once reasonably secured...give all illegals the opportunity to depart. Say...12 months. If they are caught after such a deadline; they can never be legal citizens of this country, either by naturalization or marriage. They simply cannot legally reside here, EVER. After that deadline...every illegal alien which is caught within the borders gets fingerprinted, DNA tested, and deported. Likewise, no child born of illegals or not born of two legal residents cannot be a citizen here. Again...all of the above with the assurance that they can never be a legal citizen here.

This is simple common sense...not "xenophobia" as some here have suggested. Illegal immigration has had a profound and destructive influence on individual states' economies as well as federal spending.

Just because you manage to sneak across the border of this country, doesn't mean that you should be allowed to:

1) Live here for as long as you like
2) Evade taxation
3) Have numerous children (which become de facto citizens)
4) Strain/burden the economies of our government
5) Commit crimes/take up prison space which burden our states' budgets
6) Check themselves into hospitals for treatment at taxpayer expense

Bottom line...there is a reason that they call them "ILLEGAL ALIENS"---it's because they are here illegally and they aren't citizens. Thus---find them, identify them, and boot them the hell out.

---

TWL|Lord Skeletor
TeamWarfare Competition Staff
Email: Skeletor@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_GRAW, #twl_rvs

Wait, you guys are against illegal immigration? Don't you know that automatically makes you against all immigration and racists??? The nerve of some people.

Originally posted by: Stryk
Auto-turrets.

QFT

Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor

Originally posted by: LoStMaTt
We are way past the tipping point. So much inaction in the past has made it so HUGE changes would have to be made. (Refer to Abaques post)

What fears me most is the possibility that things are in motion for the "North American Union" to be established.

The bottom line is that you can't implement any sort of reasonable immigration reform until you secure the border. Do so with fences, walls, satellite telemetry, motion sensors, sentry guns...whatever. LOL

Once reasonably secured...give all illegals the opportunity to depart. Say...12 months. If they are caught after such a deadline; they can never be legal citizens of this country, either by naturalization or marriage. They simply cannot legally reside here, EVER. After that deadline...every illegal alien which is caught within the borders gets fingerprinted, DNA tested, and deported. Likewise, no child born of illegals or not born of two legal residents cannot be a citizen here. Again...all of the above with the assurance that they can never be a legal citizen here.

This is simple common sense...not "xenophobia" as some here have suggested. Illegal immigration has had a profound and destructive influence on individual states' economies as well as federal spending.

Just because you manage to sneak across the border of this country, doesn't mean that you should be allowed to:

1) Live here for as long as you like
2) Evade taxation
3) Have numerous children (which become de facto citizens)
4) Strain/burden the economies of our government
5) Commit crimes/take up prison space which burden our states' budgets
6) Check themselves into hospitals for treatment at taxpayer expense

Bottom line...there is a reason that they call them "ILLEGAL ALIENS"---it's because they are here illegally and they aren't citizens. Thus---find them, identify them, and boot them the hell out.

Funny thing is, YOU became a 'defacto citizen' by being born here....

Isn't the constitution pesky sometimes?



VOTE GREEN PARTY FOR REAL POLITICAL REPRESENTATION! http://www.gp.org

Originally posted by: Abaques
If Snake and Cimat agree on something then I think its case closed.

end drug war= end drug related violence.

See Cimat this is where I start to disagree. My great grandparents came here legally and wanted to be Americans. They didn't call themselves Norwegian-Americans. They didn't fly a Norwegian flag over the US flag.

I'm all for legal immigration. Sneaking over and having babies to help your chances of not being deported is something totally different. At least in my opinion. And I can be wrong I guess.

I'm no expert and I don't fully understand the situation so I try not to comment on this matter too much. But I hate it when someone speaks up against illegal immigration here and is branded a xenophobe because of it.


Post edited by leroybrown at 11/15/2007 9:36:04 PM

Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor


The bottom line is that you can't implement any sort of reasonable immigration reform until you secure the border. Do so with fences, walls, satellite telemetry, motion sensors, sentry guns...whatever. LOL

The problem with this is that it is simply impossible to do without either bankrupting the US or declaring war on Mexico (which has other, far worse consequences). So basically you need to just accept this and move on to other, realistic solutions. Anything else is just using the illegal immigration problem as a political tool, not actually solving the problem.

Once reasonably secured...give all illegals the opportunity to depart. Say...12 months. If they are caught after such a deadline; they can never be legal citizens of this country, either by naturalization or marriage. They simply cannot legally reside here, EVER. After that deadline...every illegal alien which is caught within the borders gets fingerprinted, DNA tested, and deported. Likewise, no child born of illegals or not born of two legal residents cannot be a citizen here. Again...all of the above with the assurance that they can never be a legal citizen here.

So how do you propose to do this? There are between 10-20 million illegal immigrants living in this country. Simply rounding them up is simply not feasible. And what incentive would you provide to encourage illegals to actually leave now? How would you remove the draw of jobs that bring them here in the first place? Without doing that then no amount of laws will make them just up and leave en-masse.

Basically you've just parroted talking points that sound good in theory but that do nothing to actually solve the problem in any realistic way.

Originally posted by: leroybrown
See Cimat this is where I start to disagree. My great grandparents came here legally. I'm all for legal immigration. Sneaking over and having babies to help your chances of not being deported is something totally different. At least in my opinion. And I can be wrong I guess.

The problem with your line of reasoning is that it is unconstitutional.

Originally posted by: 14th Ammendment, United States Constitution

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

So basically we have to change the Constitution to change the laws. If you want to try to do so then fine, but I don't believe that doing so will have a major effect upon illegal immigration.