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The shit hit the fan in pakistan

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2007-11-09 · 129 posts

(CNN) -- The United States will review its financial aid package to its key anti-terrorism ally Pakistan after President Gen. Pervez Musharraf imposed a state of emergency there on Saturday, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Sunday.

"Obviously the situation has changed and we have to review where we are," Rice said, noting that it is a complicated matter because much of the aid goes to counterterrorism measures.

Earlier, Rice said Washington had not been consulted about Musharraf's plan to declare the emergency measure, which suspends the constitution and widens his powers.

"I'm disappointed in his decision," she said, noting that the last time she spoke to the Pakistani leader was on Tuesday.

Earlier Sunday Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz told reporters that the state of emergency declared in Pakistan will be imposed for "as long as it is necessary."

Aziz said no decision had yet been made as to whether parliamentary elections scheduled for January would go ahead as planned, but earlier Information Minister Tariq Azim Khan on Dubai-based GEO TV said parliamentary elections would be delayed indefinitely.

The political turmoil comes ahead of a Supreme Court ruling on whether Musharraf's recent re-election is legal.

Aziz said there could be "some timing difference" on the schedule for elections but affirmed the Pakistan leadership was still committed to democracy. He said the state of emergency had been imposed to "bring more harmony to the pillars of state" and to protect against extremism in the country.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/04/pakistan/index.html

The man is a dictator.

Who still feels we need to appease Pakistan and avoid cross-boarder hot pursuits of terrorists running from Afghanistan to the tribal areas of Pakistan?

We've been giving this man honey for years now, aid packages and training, its time to take a serious critical look at what we've been supporting for all these years. "500 "preventative arrests" made so far"
We need to let Pakistan worry about Pakistan and we need to worry about the U.S.
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God created Anarchy. Man created Government.
I'll stick with God.

Originally posted by: Zombee
I hope someone shoots you in the face.
You've pointed out the problem, but what's your genius idea for fixing it without putting nukes in the hands of terrorists? Maybe we should invade, install a new government, and take away their wmds. Or maybe we should kindly ask them give them to us.
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Seek out a kingdom worthy of your soul
Originally posted by: =NCG=Leonidas
You've pointed out the problem, but what's your genius idea for fixing it without putting nukes in the hands of terrorists? Maybe we should invade, install a new government, and take away their wmds. Or maybe we should kindly ask them give them to us.

What ever happened to self-determination?

Countries in NATO stand to loose ground in this conflict if its allowed to spill over the boarders, I believe a multi-lateral approach of carrot-and-stick diplomacy is necessary to bring stability in this instance, right now.
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: =NCG=Leonidas
You've pointed out the problem, but what's your genius idea for fixing it without putting nukes in the hands of terrorists? Maybe we should invade, install a new government, and take away their wmds. Or maybe we should kindly ask them give them to us.

What ever happened to self-determination?

Countries in NATO stand to loose ground in this conflict if its allowed to spill over the boarders, I believe a multi-lateral approach of carrot-and-stick diplomacy is necessary to bring stability in this instance, right now.


That sounds real fancy, so what exactly are your carrots and sticks?
_____________________________________________________________________________________

This message was brought to you by the Society for the Reinstitution of Natural Selection

Seek out a kingdom worthy of your soul
Originally posted by: =NCG=Leonidas
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: =NCG=Leonidas
You've pointed out the problem, but what's your genius idea for fixing it without putting nukes in the hands of terrorists? Maybe we should invade, install a new government, and take away their wmds. Or maybe we should kindly ask them give them to us.

What ever happened to self-determination?

Countries in NATO stand to loose ground in this conflict if its allowed to spill over the boarders, I believe a multi-lateral approach of carrot-and-stick diplomacy is necessary to bring stability in this instance, right now.


That sounds real fancy, so what exactly are your carrots and sticks?

Sanctions and aid of course, its not really all that fancy, just business as usual.

The key thing to figure out here is exactly WHY this is happening, if its the courts alone, militants, generals, or what. Then the proper actions can be taken in response to target the problem, instead of making it worse.
Forget the carrots and sticks, maybe we should tell Pakistan to fuck off.

Oops, that's the isolationist in me coming out...

I think Pakistan is going to be another foreign policy nightmare for the US. As with other unstable dictator-type regimes we've "allied" with in the past, give it another 20 years and they'll probably turn on us and bite us.

Sometimes I wish we weren't part of the global scene. Damn, there's that isolationism coming out again...
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: =NCG=Leonidas
You've pointed out the problem, but what's your genius idea for fixing it without putting nukes in the hands of terrorists? Maybe we should invade, install a new government, and take away their wmds. Or maybe we should kindly ask them give them to us.

What ever happened to self-determination?
It died when most of the free world decided it wasn't a good enough reason for Bush to justify Iraq and people like yourself jumped on the bandwagon.
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"My answer is to burn all the fucking oil as quick as possible and then the politicians will have to find a solution.” - R.D.
Originally posted by: Stryk
most of the free world decided it wasn't a good enough reason for Bush to justify Iraq


QFT.
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: =NCG=Leonidas
You've pointed out the problem, but what's your genius idea for fixing it without putting nukes in the hands of terrorists? Maybe we should invade, install a new government, and take away their wmds. Or maybe we should kindly ask them give them to us.

What ever happened to self-determination?
It died when most of the free world decided it wasn't a good enough reason for Bush to justify Iraq and people like yourself jumped on the bandwagon.

What did Bush do to Iraq again?
Oh yea, he invaded. That was a stupid idea. Thats not what I suggested however.

I said that we should use our economic soft power multi-laterally to impose a truly democratic system on the country which has been ruled by it's pseudo-ally general for far too long. He has been our strong-man in the area in fair weather only, only when it suits his interests.

You know, the same thing we did to Iraq before someone decided it would be a good idea to invade and occupy it.
Oh.

And how do was access Afgahnistan if we become hostile with Pakistan but don't completely overtake it?
Post edited by Stryk at 11/4/2007 4:54:56 PM

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"My answer is to burn all the fucking oil as quick as possible and then the politicians will have to find a solution.” - R.D.
Originally posted by: DieselFuel!
Originally posted by: Stryk
most of the free world decided it wasn't a good enough reason for Bush to justify Iraq


QFT.
At one time, most people thought the world was flat.
___________________________________________
"My answer is to burn all the fucking oil as quick as possible and then the politicians will have to find a solution.” - R.D.
Originally posted by: Stryk
Oh.

And how do was access Afgahnistan if we become hostile with Pakistan but don't completely overtake it?


Kyrgyzstan
nuke em all and let God sort it out.
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Originally posted by: the wierdo
There's nothing like a little child molestation to bring people together and rise above the partisanship
Originally posted by: Pudd¿nheäd
ive been wanting coq for some time now, and im goin for it on sunday!
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
kok. i want kok. lots of kok.
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: DieselFuel!
Originally posted by: Stryk
most of the free world decided it wasn't a good enough reason for Bush to justify Iraq


QFT.
At one time, most people thought the world was flat.


currently, 99.999% of the world believes global warming is caused by human activity. Praise allah that Beney and Chush know better......just like they "knew" Iraq had wmd and helped al queda.......



VOTE GREEN PARTY FOR REAL POLITICAL REPRESENTATION! http://www.gp.org

Originally posted by: Abaques
If Snake and Cimat agree on something then I think its case closed.

Benazir Bhutto

KARACHI, Pakistan (CNN) -- I have long claimed that the rise of extremism and militancy in Pakistan could not happen without support from elements within the current administration. My return to my country poses a threat to the forces of extremism that have thrived under a dictatorship. They want to stop the restoration of democracy at any price. They have exploited a poor, desperate, and powerless people and allowed extremists the right environment in which to flourish.

...
Although it remains difficult to know for certain, I doubt that a suicide bomber was involved in the attack on me. I suspect, after talking to some of the injured, that the terrorists used a small child as a ploy to get to me. They were trying to hoist the child -- dressed in the colors of my party's flag -- onto my truck.

Failing to do so, they dropped the child near my vehicle. Some witnesses said the child had been rigged as a human bomb. I can't be sure. What followed was a massive explosion, killing scores immediately, tearing many bodies in half and sending blood, gore and flames up into the vehicle.

In less than a minute a second bomb -- reports later suggested a car bomb -- went off.

As I have reflected on the past two weeks, there are some things I wonder about:

• What was the car doing there?

• Why had the street lights been turned off?

• Was that intended to prevent my security from clearly seeing any approaching dangers?

• Is there any truth to the report that a high government official ordered the lights turned off "to prevent her getting so much television coverage"?

• Why would the leadership of the ruling party of Pakistan make a claim that my own party had committed the attack to gain sympathy?

• Why would the investigation be initially given to a police officer who was present when my husband was nearly tortured to death in 1999?

And, then, there is to me the most worrying: the adamant rejection by Islamabad of any assistance from the state-of-the art forensic teams of the FBI and Scotland Yard. There are precedents in Pakistan for such international assistance. Such teams were called in to investigate the mysterious and sudden death of Army Chief General Asif Nawaz and the Egyptian Embassy bombing in the '90s.

I had called in international experts when my brother Murtaza was killed in what I believed was a conspiracy to destabilize my government in 1996.

We can only wonder -- if there is nothing to hide -- why international investigators from the FBI and Scotland Yard are being prevented from assisting a Pakistan-led investigation?

The sham investigation of the October 19 massacre and the attempt by the ruling party to politically capitalize on this catastrophe are discomforting, but do not suggest any direct involvement by General Pervez Musharraf.

Until recently, he had made both public and private commitments to confidence building gestures that would move Pakistan forward in the transition to democracy. But at a time when he should be demonstrating to our country and the world his seriousness in allowing free, fair and transparent elections, he has declared martial law. This can only be seen as a step to entrench his dictatorship.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/04/bhutto/index.html

Post edited by Coba|t at 11/5/2007 12:34:35 AM
lol, Musharraf just had 100 lawyers arrested who were contesting his state of emergency.

He's digging himself a deeper hole by the day.
b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut he is an ally!
Originally posted by: the penguin
nuke em all and let God sort it out.


Osama Bin Laden agrees with you.
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Originally posted by: SammySoc
Men of little minds always find solace in portraying themselves as victims.
So miltitary and political leaders are now saying that Pakistan is the most serious threat to world peace with 2/5ths of the country under control of fundementalist.

So if some time in the next six months we see the new leader/president/dictator of Pakistan (with a nuclear arsenal) declaring a new direction on their state run TV, and behind him in the background is every Al qaeda leader we have been hunting these last few years, my question is this. Would that be the time to declare "total war"?

Seriously, Bhutto outlined the plans of these radicals about how they are pulling back from Iraq and Afghanistan to wait out the disruption in the US elections. Their goal is to replace Karzai in A'stan and overthrow Mushariff in quick succesion and resestablish a Taliban run hegemony in the region. So do you Bush backers think this is still the time to invade/bomb Iran? Maybe GW can show us his geopolitical genius by invading India! That would sound about right at this time.
Originally posted by: Coba|t
The shit hit the fan in pakistan

Thank you for the quite nearly lyrical thread title.

Originally posted by: Neechoo Cheeska
Forget the carrots and sticks, maybe we should tell Pakistan to fuck off.

Oops, that's the isolationist in me coming out...

I think Pakistan is going to be another foreign policy nightmare for the US. As with other unstable dictator-type regimes we've "allied" with in the past, give it another 20 years and they'll probably turn on us and bite us.

Sometimes I wish we weren't part of the global scene. Damn, there's that isolationism coming out again...


Pakistan is gonna be a huge problem. A large portion of the population was radicalized in the Madrass until they were shut down. You have terror cells all over the place. So if we stop supporting Musharraff then the radicals could easily take over.
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: Neechoo Cheeska
Forget the carrots and sticks, maybe we should tell Pakistan to fuck off.

Oops, that's the isolationist in me coming out...

I think Pakistan is going to be another foreign policy nightmare for the US. As with other unstable dictator-type regimes we've "allied" with in the past, give it another 20 years and they'll probably turn on us and bite us.

Sometimes I wish we weren't part of the global scene. Damn, there's that isolationism coming out again...


Pakistan is gonna be a huge problem. A large portion of the population was radicalized in the Madrass until they were shut down. You have terror cells all over the place. So if we stop supporting Musharraff then the radicals could easily take over.

they were educated in madrasas mainly because the education system is terrible and there is nowhere else to send your kid other than the military, they are the boarding schools of Pakistan, some of them are more radical than others.
Originally posted by: Stryk
At one time, most people thought the world was flat.


and in modern times we refer to people with that intellect and thinking skills as the neocons

Post edited by Bunks at 11/5/2007 6:46:22 PM
Still better off having Musharaff in power! Let me know when they kill him and then we nuke the shit out of them and make it look like India did it! JK INDIA!!!! But definitely nuke them bitches!
Originally posted by: Bunks
Originally posted by: Stryk
At one time, most people thought the world was flat.


and in modern times we refer to people with that intellect and thinking skills as the neocons

Ya srsly, I'm taking a course on these scumbags next semester because, as they say - know your enemy.
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: Bunks
Originally posted by: Stryk
At one time, most people thought the world was flat.


and in modern times we refer to people with that intellect and thinking skills as the neocons

Ya srsly, I'm taking a course on these scumbags next semester because, as they say - know your enemy.

wow... you mean to tell me, your school has a course on neo-cons?

do they also offer a course on the american social democrat?

wow... you mean to tell me, your school has a course on neo-cons?


Modern American History?
Post edited by -]45th[-*Devil at 11/5/2007 7:47:32 PM
Originally posted by: -]45th[-*Devil
wow... you mean to tell me, your school has a course on neo-cons?
Modern American History?
lawl
Post edited by samUwell at 11/5/2007 8:07:55 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-uspakistan5nov05,1,7007026.story?track=rss

Originally posted by: U.S. military aid to Pakistan misses its Al Qaeda target
WASHINGTON — Despite billions of dollars in U.S. military payments to Pakistan over the last six years, the paramilitary force leading the pursuit of Al Qaeda militants remains underfunded, poorly trained and overwhelmingly outgunned, U.S. military and intelligence officials said.

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf cited the rising militant threat in declaring a state of emergency on Saturday and suspending the constitution.

But rather than use the more than $7 billion in U.S. military aid to bolster its counter-terrorism capabilities, Pakistan has spent the bulk of it on heavy arms, aircraft and equipment that U.S. officials say are far more suited for conventional warfare with India, its regional rival.

That has left fighters with the paramilitary force, known as the Frontier Corps, equipped often with little more than "sandals and bolt-action rifles," said a senior Western military official in Islamabad, even as they face Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters equipped with assault rifles and grenade launchers.

The arms imbalance has contributed to Al Qaeda's ability to regroup in the border region, and reflects the competing priorities that were evident even before this weekend between two countries that are self-described allies in the "war on terrorism" but have sharply divergent national security interests.


Jesus, we're giving them $7 billion dollars a year to declare a state of emergency, suspend the constitution, and prepare for war with India? This is not going to end well...
Originally posted by: samUwell
Originally posted by: -]45th[-*Devil
wow... you mean to tell me, your school has a course on neo-cons?
Modern American History?
lawl

My guess is "Unconstitutional law 101"

or maybe even "Republican fascism" and how it destroyed the greatest country on earth! A higher level class, so many republicans would never qualify to take it.
Post edited by Bunks at 11/5/2007 8:15:13 PM
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Jesus, we're giving them $7 billion dollars a year to declare a state of emergency, suspend the constitution, and prepare for war with India? This is not going to end well...


Ive read 10 billion from 3 other sources.
I told you so.
What MM, Georgie boy has it all figured out. We invade India while sending pakistan aid, then when the taliban take Pakistan over we bomb Iran. After the Turks invade northern Iraq, we send India aid, then give the Isrealies money to attack Syria to help defend Iraq from Iran. How simple can it be?

What? haven't you ever attended the right wing school of geopolitical strategy?
Post edited by Bunks at 11/5/2007 8:27:02 PM
Originally posted by: Bunks
Originally posted by: the wierdo
Jesus, we're giving them $7 billion dollars a year to declare a state of emergency, suspend the constitution, and prepare for war with India? This is not going to end well...


Ive read 10 billion from 3 other sources.


Maybe that includes all types of aid?
Yeah probably, it just shows how little of the money we spent went to actually fight the war on terror. My guess is for every dollar spent on Iraq and all the other areas, we probably got 1 cent on every dollar towards it. Good to know my kids and grandchildren are going to be living in grass huts for that.
Post edited by Bunks at 11/5/2007 8:32:27 PM
Originally posted by: samUwell
Originally posted by: Coba|t
Originally posted by: Bunks
Originally posted by: Stryk
At one time, most people thought the world was flat.


and in modern times we refer to people with that intellect and thinking skills as the neocons

Ya srsly, I'm taking a course on these scumbags next semester because, as they say - know your enemy.

wow... you mean to tell me, your school has a course on neo-cons?

do they also offer a course on the american social democrat?

Yea, its quite clear at this point in time that the neo-conservative movement's roots run deep, their ideology has been widely publicized, and their rise and fall from power has been documented. Its going to be interesting to see how the man goes about the course, he is currently teaching a communist history course, and 6 others, in several places.

As far as teachers go, this guy knows more historical figures than anyone else I've met.
Post edited by Coba|t at 11/5/2007 10:52:21 PM
damn I hear alot crying in here that its all Bush's fault for Iraq. Now the guy has his faults along with every moron that has taken the presidency but I would hope that some you guys realize that the president can not send our military (except the Marines..ooh rah) into action without Congress's approval. Last time I checked Congress did approve military action so please take that into consideration as you continue to bash our occupation in Iraq. Some will say that it was b/c it was a Republican controlled Congress but many Democrats voted "yes" and even now the Democrat controlled Congress has the power to bring them home but they dont b/c they rather use the deaths of my fellow soldiers as a politcial gain. Also dont believe everything the news agencies publish as they rather publish negative things instead of the actual truth. I could go on & on but when I did my tour of duty in Iraq we did find stock piles of chemical weapons that was never reported on the news b/c it doesnt bring good ratings like NOT finding WMDs and this is coming from a view different reporters that we talked to.
Paragraphs, use them.
Originally posted by: -=BoS=- Reaper
damn I hear alot crying in here that its all Bush's fault for Iraq. Now the guy has his faults along with every moron that has taken the presidency but I would hope that some you guys realize that the president can not send our military (except the Marines..ooh rah) into action without Congress's approval. Last time I checked Congress did approve military action so please take that into consideration as you continue to bash our occupation in Iraq. Some will say that it was b/c it was a Republican controlled Congress but many Democrats voted "yes" and even now the Democrat controlled Congress has the power to bring them home but they dont b/c they rather use the deaths of my fellow soldiers as a politcial gain. Also dont believe everything the news agencies publish as they rather publish negative things instead of the actual truth. I could go on & on but when I did my tour of duty in Iraq we did find stock piles of chemical weapons that was never reported on the news b/c it doesnt bring good ratings like NOT finding WMDs and this is coming from a view different reporters that we talked to.




Welcome to the GF -where unless you are a good little socialist, then you are automatically a "neocon". Just look at the replies -they speak for themselves. Such tolerance and open mindedness, the irony of it all.

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This is a bad move on Musharrif's part and will only spiral downward in the days to come. This makes him as shitty as Chavez. But the politics of the situation means I would rather have him in there then a bunch of religious zealots with nukes.
PATRIOTIC DISSENT IS A LUXURY OF THOSE PROTECTED BY BETTER MEN THAN THEY.