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London's Metropolitan Police: Guilty

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2007-11-02 · 23 posts
-ferOcitY`
Competition DirectorSenior OperationsEurope
2007-11-01 17:16
Originally posted by: BBC.co.uk
London's Metropolitan police force has been found guilty of endangering the public over the fatal shooting of a man officers mistook for a suicide bomber.
The force broke health and safety laws when officers pursued Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes to a Tube station and shot him seven times, a jury found.

It was fined £175,000 with £385,000 costs over the 22 July 2005 shooting.

The Old Bailey jury said police chief Cressida Dick, who led the operation, bore "no personal culpability".

Ms Dick, now deputy assistant commissioner of the force, had been accused by prosecutors of failing to keep control of her officers.

Why did Jean Charles die? A step-by-step guide to killing
Met's 19 key failings

Met Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said outside court that he was staying in his job - despite calls for his resignation.

Mr de Menezes's relatives said they wanted to see a "full and thorough" inquest into the electrician's death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7069796.stm

Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm. It's ridiculas that they have been charged with this and calling for the commisioner to be replaced wont help.

Health & Saftey laws in England are just silly. I've read somewhere that goal posts where removed from a playing field becuase someon could walk into it in the dark and hurt themselfs. Kids at school playing with conkers cant now in some schools becuase they don't have eye protection on. Now to charge the police for doing thier job...

TWL|ferOcitY`
TeamWarfare Competition Director
Email: ferOcitY@TeamWarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_cod, #twl_cs
DieselFuel!
TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 17:22
Anna Dunwoodie, who was in the same carriage as Mr Menezes when he was shot, told the BBC how she witnessed this "horrific" moment when armed police ran on board the train.

"It didn't feel to me like I was in the middle of a police operation," she recalled.

"The men who came running in seemed quite chaotic. I'd describe them as slightly hysterical.

"Jean Charles, to my knowledge, did nothing out of the ordinary.

"I didn't notice him until he had a gun pressed to him. It felt to me like he was someone who was being picked on at random because he was nearest to the door.
Shooting innocent people seven times is never a police officers job....
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Trust me when I say if a bus hits you I will be smiling
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Yea. I can't post anything without the flames and baiting.

^^ He said it, not me.
Abaques
TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 17:26
Are you aware of the facts of this case? The man they shot was completely innocent and the police clearly overreacted to the situation. That is why they were found culpable in this case, and rightly so.
=>PX<=Major
TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 17:29
Originally posted by: Abaques
Are you aware of the facts of this case? The man they shot was completely innocent and the police clearly overreacted to the situation. That is why they were found culpable in this case, and rightly so.


Exactly, and what a tragedy for everyone involved.
Coba|t
TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 17:29
I was wrong when I first heard this story, they never should have killed the guy.
Gen.ArielSharon
Phallically ChallengedTeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 17:33
Clearly they were wrong as we see now, at the time I heard this when the story broke I thought they were hot in pursuit of a suicide bomber and shot him seven times to make sure they shot him dead.
-ferOcitY`
Competition DirectorSenior OperationsEurope
2007-11-01 17:33
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`

Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm.

Question ^

TWL|ferOcitY`
TeamWarfare Competition Director
Email: ferOcitY@TeamWarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_cod, #twl_cs
Coba|t
TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 17:41
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`

Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm.

Question ^

Police wouldn't be charged with anything, government agencies wipe their hands clean of these responsibilities just like after 9/11, just like after the london bombings, etc. etc.

Its obvious what would have happened if the man who was not a suicide bomber was actually a suicide bomber, he would have set his bomb off, duh.

What would have happened if he was the son of an important US diplomat? What would have happened if he was an under-cover police officer in pursuit of a suspect? Several situations can be presented to try and make the situation sound like it could have been much worse, but that doesn't make the situation any BETTER.
Post edited by Coba|t at 11/1/2007 5:41:58 PM
leroybrown
/uninstall TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 17:45
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`

Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm.

Question ^


If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
-ferOcitY`
Competition DirectorSenior OperationsEurope
2007-11-01 17:45
Originally posted by: Coba|t

Police wouldn't be charged with anything, government agencies wipe their hands clean of these responsibilities just like after 9/11, just like after the london bombings, etc. etc.

Originally posted by: BBC.co.uk
Police guilty over Menezes case

Originally posted by: BBC.co.uk
It was fined £175,000 with £385,000 costs over the 22 July 2005 shooting.


TWL|ferOcitY`
TeamWarfare Competition Director
Email: ferOcitY@TeamWarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_cod, #twl_cs
Mackadoody
TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 18:02
I thought the Bobbies only carried whistles and billyclubs.

~~Snake~~
TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 18:15
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`
Originally posted by: BBC.co.uk
London's Metropolitan police force has been found guilty of endangering the public over the fatal shooting of a man officers mistook for a suicide bomber.
The force broke health and safety laws when officers pursued Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes to a Tube station and shot him seven times, a jury found.

It was fined £175,000 with £385,000 costs over the 22 July 2005 shooting.

The Old Bailey jury said police chief Cressida Dick, who led the operation, bore "no personal culpability".

Ms Dick, now deputy assistant commissioner of the force, had been accused by prosecutors of failing to keep control of her officers.

Why did Jean Charles die? A step-by-step guide to killing
Met's 19 key failings

Met Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said outside court that he was staying in his job - despite calls for his resignation.

Mr de Menezes's relatives said they wanted to see a "full and thorough" inquest into the electrician's death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7069796.stm

Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm. It's ridiculas that they have been charged with this and calling for the commisioner to be replaced wont help.

Health & Saftey laws in England are just silly. I've read somewhere that goal posts where removed from a playing field becuase someon could walk into it in the dark and hurt themselfs. Kids at school playing with conkers cant now in some schools becuase they don't have eye protection on. Now to charge the police for doing thier job...


Its tragic but its gonna happen more and more with terrorist tards. I don't blame the police. The same people that bitch about the police here and there would go even more apeshit had they allowed some terrorist to get by and then he killed someone. You can't win with these types of people who always go after the police for protecting them. A review is normal, but watch how the same cop hating people always demand more.
Post edited by ~~Snake~~ at 11/1/2007 6:17:25 PM
Digm
Lost AdminTeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 18:57
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`
Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm. It's ridiculas that they have been charged with this and calling for the commisioner to be replaced wont help.


You're absolutely right. Police should definitely shoot first and ask questions later. It's For Your Own Good™

Post edited by Digm at 11/1/2007 6:57:27 PM
DieselFuel!
TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 19:04
Originally posted by: Digm


You're absolutely right. Police should definitely shoot first and ask questions later. It's For Your Own Good™



reminds me of the zealots who were in the thread suggesting police should have shot the girl with the lite-brite shirt...
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Trust me when I say if a bus hits you I will be smiling
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Yea. I can't post anything without the flames and baiting.

^^ He said it, not me.
DieselFuel!
TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 19:05
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
but watch how the same cop hating people always demand more.


Can you be specific which people that would be?
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Trust me when I say if a bus hits you I will be smiling
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Yea. I can't post anything without the flames and baiting.

^^ He said it, not me.
MolimOrion
Don't EVER poke the bear!TeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 19:08
Originally posted by: DieselFuel!
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
but watch how the same cop hating people always demand more.


Can you be specific which people that would be?
TX_Lord Skeletor
Competition StaffNA Ladder AdminGhost ReconTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 19:10
Originally posted by: -ferOcitY`
Originally posted by: BBC.co.uk
London's Metropolitan police force has been found guilty of endangering the public over the fatal shooting of a man officers mistook for a suicide bomber.
The force broke health and safety laws when officers pursued Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes to a Tube station and shot him seven times, a jury found.

It was fined £175,000 with £385,000 costs over the 22 July 2005 shooting.

The Old Bailey jury said police chief Cressida Dick, who led the operation, bore "no personal culpability".

Ms Dick, now deputy assistant commissioner of the force, had been accused by prosecutors of failing to keep control of her officers.

Why did Jean Charles die? A step-by-step guide to killing
Met's 19 key failings

Met Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said outside court that he was staying in his job - despite calls for his resignation.

Mr de Menezes's relatives said they wanted to see a "full and thorough" inquest into the electrician's death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7069796.stm

Now if he HAD detonated a device in that tube. What would the police be charged with then? The same thing as now, endagering the public? One person dead suspeceted of carrying a device or another 52 people dead? Hmm. It's ridiculas that they have been charged with this and calling for the commisioner to be replaced wont help.

Health & Saftey laws in England are just silly. I've read somewhere that goal posts where removed from a playing field becuase someon could walk into it in the dark and hurt themselfs. Kids at school playing with conkers cant now in some schools becuase they don't have eye protection on. Now to charge the police for doing thier job...


Don't forget the idiots over there who want to ban butcher knives and kitchen knives because they are "dangerous" and only serve to "arm criminals." Stupid is as stupid does.
TWL|Lord Skeletor
TeamWarfare Competition Staff
Email: Skeletor@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_GRAW, #twl_rvs
DieselFuel!
TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 19:14
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor


Don't forget the idiots over there who want to ban butcher knives and kitchen knives because they are "dangerous" and only serve to "arm criminals." Stupid is as stupid does.


Is it your opinion police should be justified in shooting anyone they think might possibly be guilty?
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Trust me when I say if a bus hits you I will be smiling
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Yea. I can't post anything without the flames and baiting.

^^ He said it, not me.
Digm
Lost AdminTeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 19:16
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor
Don't forget the idiots over there who want to ban butcher knives and kitchen knives because they are "dangerous" and only serve to "arm criminals." Stupid is as stupid does.


Did you even read your own link?
TX_Lord Skeletor
Competition StaffNA Ladder AdminGhost ReconTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 20:31
Originally posted by: Digm
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor
Don't forget the idiots over there who want to ban butcher knives and kitchen knives because they are "dangerous" and only serve to "arm criminals." Stupid is as stupid does.


Did you even read your own link?


I'm not sure that I linked anything in this thread. I think that you're talking about Snake.

Originally posted by: DieselFuel!
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor


Don't forget the idiots over there who want to ban butcher knives and kitchen knives because they are "dangerous" and only serve to "arm criminals." Stupid is as stupid does.


Is it your opinion police should be justified in shooting anyone they think might possibly be guilty?


Nope...people should only have firearms used on them by another person when that person is in a situation where he/she fears that they are in a situation where the reasonable outcome of the agression of another person(s) will result in their death or serious bodily injury.


Also...this might be AFN, but GIF is pretty laughable, funny, and pathetically accurate!(Certainly very funny when describing the actions of a bunch of "authoritarian sociopaths" [nice quote on that one])

Post edited by TX_Lord Skeletor at 11/1/2007 8:40:05 PM

TWL|Lord Skeletor
TeamWarfare Competition Staff
Email: Skeletor@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_GRAW, #twl_rvs
DieselFuel!
TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 20:34
Originally posted by: DieselFuel!
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor


Don't forget the idiots over there who want to ban butcher knives and kitchen knives because they are "dangerous" and only serve to "arm criminals." Stupid is as stupid does.


Is it your opinion police should be justified in shooting anyone they think might possibly be guilty?

______________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Trust me when I say if a bus hits you I will be smiling
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Yea. I can't post anything without the flames and baiting.

^^ He said it, not me.
Digm
Lost AdminTeamWarfare Vet
2007-11-01 20:38
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor
I'm not sure that I linked anything in this thread. I think that you're talking about Snake. However...AFN as it is, here's one of my favorite GIFs. And so true!


Oh sorry, I meant the thread you posted 3 days ago.

I don't see anything about banning butcher knives. Or is this another group of Britons you're referring to?


TX_Lord Skeletor
Competition StaffNA Ladder AdminGhost ReconTWL Contributor
2007-11-01 20:50
Originally posted by: Digm
Originally posted by: TX_Lord Skeletor
I'm not sure that I linked anything in this thread. I think that you're talking about Snake. However...AFN as it is, here's one of my favorite GIFs. And so true!


Oh sorry, I meant the thread you posted 3 days ago.

I don't see anything about banning butcher knives. Or is this another group of Britons you're referring to?



It's certainly the same group of Britons that you KNOW I AM TALKING ABOUT. This news story broke some time ago...and the idea was put forth by the "British Medical Journal" (a fairly mainstream medical source in Britain--so the story goes). There was huge support for this overseas (by the ruling class, of course)..if you would like some links, I have plenty:


http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7502/1221

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=1866

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/international/europe/27knife.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=579102005

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1493851,00.html?gusrc=rss


Well...the counter-argument goes something like this: If I want a question answered regarding coronary health, strokes, or diabetes, I'll ask a doctor what he thinks with a reasonable expectation of getting some good advice. I won't ask the N.R.A. to postulate or give me medical advice. It's not their field of expertise.

Likewise, if I want reliable advice on defending myself, my family, or fellow citizens with firearms, knives, the laws/liability of doing so, or the like....I'll get that information from a reliable source such as the N.R.A., A.C.K.F., or the G.O.A. I would rather not hear mindless and retarded speculation from a bunch of doctors regarding a subject that they know absolutely nothing about...other than perhaps "the effectiveness (effects) of the study of 'terminal ballistics'." Doctors themselves certainly don't belong in the realm of politics or in activist-related political discourse such as this.
Post edited by TX_Lord Skeletor at 11/1/2007 8:58:53 PM

TWL|Lord Skeletor
TeamWarfare Competition Staff
Email: Skeletor@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_GRAW, #twl_rvs

23 posts recovered