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Great Anti-War ad......

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2003-03-20 · 23 posts
http://www.moveon.org/midland.pdf

Sounds like the ones who would do the fighting don't think a war in Iraq is such a great idea. We would be wise to accept their counsel.


Post edited by cimat1984 at 2/4/2003 6:44:37 PM

"Progressive"
People fear what they don't understand.
People hate what they fear.


Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org

Seen most of those before, but nice having them in one place.
too long

I also found the lack of The Finger fairly nonconvincing...


Originally posted by: NeoPhoenixTE

too long

I also found the lack of The Finger fairly nonconvincing...


You know, you really are a whiner. Why did I ever sleep with you?
you didn't, I bitched too much
Post edited by NeoPhoenixTE at 2/4/2003 7:23:45 PM



dubious.

I checked the reference for the first quote by James Webb and it doesn't include ANY reference about or by James Webb. It's the famous opinion piece by Brent Scowcroft.

I'm not going to take the time to check the other references as I suspect they will be just as false or misleading, but I will bring up a surface level concern about the veracity of the alleged Wall Street Journal ad that claimed to be from "major GOP contributors", without naming them.

The ad is a desperate FUD campaign
I'm not a big fan of it, however it is a good presentation for those who are easily folded. (Aka, hippies)
_________________________


http://www.codx.com

Ok, well I did read it and these are my replies -

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110002133
"Don't Attack Saddam" - dated Aug 15th 2002

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/4234259.htm
Dated Oct 08, 2002
Uses terms commonly used with liberal rhetoric such as "invading" "administration hawks"
Also note the comment from (D)Sen. Durbin in which he says some information he had seen
did not support Bush's portrayal of the Iraqi threat.

But just a month before on September 12, 2002 he says things like -
"The President accurately laid out the history of Iraq's defiance of the United Nations. I applaud the
President for his pledge to work with the U.N. to address the challenges Iraq presents
to the region and the world."
Sounds like someone just got caught spinning...
located here - http://durbin.senate.gov/~durbin/new2001/press/2002/09/2002B13737.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-09-09-oplede_x.htm
This piece dated Sept 9, 2002 ..the FULL paragraph that they shared reads -
Attacking Iraq now, before these other actions are taken, would reduce, not enhance,
our security. Unilateral U.S. action today would disrupt the war against al-Qaeda,
supercharge anti-American sentiment in the Middle East and Europe, undercut international
cooperation and shake up moderate Arab governments.

Since this was said, the US HAS gone before the UN, the US HAS gotten the cooperation
of the UN by a 15 - 0 vote from the security council. The US HAS received numerous
allies who will contribute to any military conflict in Iraq. Unilateral is a word
that Democrats & Liberals wish to cling to even though it is erroneous with full
UN cooperation. But good try, nonetheless.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/10/17/zinni/
This piece, like previous ones using the term "hawk". Automatic give away for
left-wing rhetoric. This quote was taken out of a quite larger and thoughtful speech
given by this fine marine who has seen BAD decisions of battle. Vietnam &
Somalia to name them specifically. This Marine as with every other military official
agrees that with the proper support and UN support, this thing is a go. Of course
you won't see those types of comments on an anti-war propaganda sheet.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29786
Highly decorated as he may be, he has chosen on his own accord to become
an 'advocate' if you will.. of politican deicisions. Having served WWII to Vietnam
he has seen the hell the battlefield brings. He has seen the good and the bad.
One of the things Worldnetdaily.com doesn't WANT you to see is another comment
this Colonel made Sept 24, 2001 - This time around, we're fortunate that President Bush
has already fielded a team capable of crafting and delivering a mighty international
fist - leaders like Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice and Gen. Hugh Shelton.
These "A" players won't ready, fire, aim a few missiles at a vitamin factory in Sudan or
a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan and report to the nation "mission accomplished."
They'll take the hard road and have the wisdom, patience and endurance to go the distance.
Located at - http://www.hackworth.com/24sept01.html

While I have all the respect in the world for his sacrifices as a warrior, I don't
find his spinning very flattering. He has many articles which he posts on his own
website that criss cross one another. If you want to hear him talk about war, he's a good
source of info, but that's about it.

http://www.naplesnews.com/02/10/perspective/d838246a.htm
Probably does not cut it for me. Probably didn't work on 9/11 Director.
Oh, yet another DATED statement from Oct of 2002.

In regards to the non-linked republican dissent... by "major GOP" contributors not named...
perhaps they forget the fact that we were attacked on 9/11 and now we're on the rampage.
The days of fingerbanging around are done with. The President is doing whatever it takes
to defend the country. If that spoils the hopes you had of spinning a politician with
your special interest, well... tough shit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/international/middleeast/02INTE.html?pagewanted=1
Well I'm not going to sign up on any site that wants me to click on things other
than those which give me immediate access to an article. So going from the quoted statement
I must say to the FBI "Gee... how long were you looking hard at terrorist groups and
didn't think it was there prior to 9/11? Thanks for failing us buddies. The President
has made it clear he is NOT interested in speculation or assumptions. He will take
no chances of another attack on America.. yes.. even if it means a few FBI agents who
were probably sucking down donuts when the first plane struck the tower are baffled.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aairaqwarcost.htm
What the anti-war guru neglected to cut/paste on this PDF in regards to the
"non-partisan" CBO is that the TRUE costs would depend on several "unknown factors". So
take their estimates with a grain of salt.

Dom, you just got a couple more shuttle points toward your impending presidental victory.
_________________________


http://www.codx.com

sweeeeeet

Without laying out a case as involved as Dom did, I'll just say you're smoking crack, cimat.

Few, _few_ in the military have any misgivings about the likely mission in Iraq. That is personal experience on my part, not dubious online sources.

Originally posted by: DoMiNuS

sweeeeeet

***and that is why Dominus is my candidate for Prez- he does his homework. Well done, Dom!!!


"Progressive"
People fear what they don't understand.
People hate what they fear.


Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org

actually i was shooting for saint hood, but oh well

Originally posted by: cimat1984

http://www.moveon.org/midland.pdf

Sounds like the ones who would do the fighting don't think a war in Iraq is such a great idea. We would be wise to accept their counsel.




Since when are they allowed to think? The president points, they shoot.

Faken

That's a zinger.
My POINT is...don't you think it's a little surprising that current and former military/intel types think that the war is a bad idea, and the suits in washington are drooling for war?


"Progressive"
People fear what they don't understand.
People hate what they fear.


Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org

They are not saying that. Most of the articles I read in there, and ALL of the articles from military guys stated that war without a coalition & support from the UN would be bad. Just because 1 tiny segment of a BIG article gets put on a piece of paper does not mean it represents their whole viewpoints.

Plus, as I said, the very first quote did not come from the reference cited. To be blunt, the makers of the ad are liars. The reference cited is actually an Op-Ed piece by Brent Scowcroft and doesn't have a quote by, for or about James Webb at all.

I actually found an artcle by James Webb that is probably what your ad makers wanted to reference, but after reading the article, I know why they chose not to reference it. James actually argues that we SHOULD attack Iraq and depose Saddam, but he questions whether we should leave an occupation force in the country. In his words:

"The issue before us is not simply whether the United States should end the regime of Saddam Hussein, but whether we as a nation are prepared to physically occupy territory in the Middle East for the next 30 to 50 years."

from here.

-pheirce
As a current member of the US Military, I myself am not looking forward to this war. I feel that many thousands of Americans will lose their lives, and the US public is not ready for that, hell I am not ready for that.

This is a hard situation, on one hand Saddam needs to go down, on the other, well I feel the US is ready for the magnitude of death this will bring
Originally posted by: GODADONE

I'm not a big fan of it, however it is a good presentation for those who are easily folded. (Aka, hippies)


Way to be extremly general. BTW what is a hippy? b/c people I know (including myself) who are called hippies are not really sure. I thought the hippies were a group from the 60-70's that were politically active and pro-peave (anti-war efforts). I thought their movement/genearlization died with the 80's (Pro-Protestant Era). Maybe you could enlighten me.
Post edited by Organic at 2/5/2003 2:46:01 PM
I hate granola.

Originally posted by: Organic

Originally posted by: GODADONE

I'm not a big fan of it, however it is a good presentation for those who are easily folded. (Aka, hippies)


Way to be extremly general. BTW what is a hippy? b/c people I know (including myself) who are called hippies are not really sure. I thought the hippies were a group from the 60-70's that were politically active and pro-peave (anti-war efforts). I thought their movement/genearlization died with the 80's (Pro-Protestant Era). Maybe you could enlighten me.


Hippies are alive and well, they all go to a school called Warren Wilson College in North Carolina. After they graduate, they move to Asheville, NC and either become bums or crazies.
_________________________


http://www.codx.com

Canada has them to... they go to Canterbury High School in Ottawa (Specializes in arts). From there, they go to any city in Ontario.

Faken

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