What kind of people are against a prememptive strike on Iraq?

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TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 12:29

With people like Christopher Hitchens(hardcore liberal) speaking common sense about the inevitable, I've got to wonder what kind of left wing nuts are left to oppose this action?

-pheirce

Trap¥

Mr.Emoticon & resident forum wh0re

2002-09-26 12:34

if he got something, blow em up!
if he dont, .... woops
...............................
Trap¥

proud member ofSLAML

DoMiNuS

CTF = the suck

2002-09-26 12:40

Go download the 50+ page pdf file CNN had on their site courtesy of the British, read thru it and then realize there is no "if he don't"

He does, and has evaded UN resolutions from the get go to keep the 'does' in present rather than in past tense.

Post edited by DoMiNuS at 9/26/2002 12:42:16 PM

Knights of Invictus

pheirce

TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 12:59

Originally posted by: DoMiNuS

Go download the 50+ page pdf file CNN had on their site courtesy of the British, read thru it and then realize there is no "if he don't"

He does, and has evaded UN resolutions from the get go to keep the 'does' in present rather than in past tense.

To help anyone who wants to be informed:

Click here for the full 50 pages

Click here for a summary

-pheirce
Post edited by pheirce at 9/26/2002 1:00:04 PM

Julius*

Anime Fag

2002-09-26 13:39

Why don't they just discuss it over some KFC

DoMiNuS

CTF = the suck

2002-09-26 13:41

yar, and some....extra biscuits

Knights of Invictus

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt Worshipper and TWL Contributor

2002-09-26 14:03

I am totally against it! There is no evidence that Iraq and Al-Queda cooperate in any way.

Also, Saddam does not pose a clear and present danger to the united states. In addition, the US has no business getting stuck baby sitting a new government in Iraq for 20 years if we go in and oust Saddam.

NO WAR IN IRAQ!

Thanks for listening.

"Raving Liberal Lunatic"
Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org
Certified Conc Grenade Specialist
Call me Bro-Ham.......

Trap¥

Mr.Emoticon & resident forum wh0re

2002-09-26 14:10

well, i'll probly agree with bro-ham on this
...............................
Trap¥

proud member ofSLAML

Coba|t

It's spelledB-U-D-D-H-A

2002-09-26 14:16

I dont know, but I sure as hell will never fight in a war lead by this asshole in the presidents position.
They can try as hard as they want, I wont go.

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt Worshipper and TWL Contributor

2002-09-26 14:44

I am right there beside you Cobalt. W does NOT represent me!

check out this site: Not In Our Name http://www.nion.us

Sign the petition to speak out against a senseless war.

"Raving Liberal Lunatic"
Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org
Certified Conc Grenade Specialist
Call me Bro-Ham.......

AKA REDWOLF

TWL Member

2002-09-26 15:05

Having gone to the first dance in the desert, I cna say this. IF and only IF some one shows me some proof will I go again willingly. but Since i do defend this country willingly if I am told go I go. its my job. I get paid to defend Cobalt and Cimat even if I don't agree with them (ever) however the one thing that has always given me great pride is knowing that my service does allow them the RIGHT to disagree.

the only thing I will say Cobalt is please disagree with him all you want, but please respect the man's title and don't call him and asshole. Go vote against him on the next election but respect the man's title.

thanks!
AKA-Lt-RedWolf
STRENGTH HONOR COURAGE

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt Worshipper and TWL Contributor

2002-09-26 15:09

As a free citizen- I salute all those in armed service for our country. Please know, that my disagreements are with the civilian leaders, and how they use the military- NOT with the military, and the brave soldiers that serve in the military.

Peace, freedom, equality

"Raving Liberal Lunatic"
Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org
Certified Conc Grenade Specialist
Call me Bro-Ham.......

pinfoo

TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 15:12

maybe if we win a legitimate war it will help our economy .. just a thought

Trap¥

Mr.Emoticon & resident forum wh0re

2002-09-26 15:12

well, i just hate being told Iraq is bad when its just an excuse for bush to go blow him. if he has somethin then go at it in the right way (meaning dont obliterate him for having cuban cigars)

as for colbalt, hes on my "friendly whores" list with climat, godadane, Jackin, etc
...............................
Trap¥

proud member ofSLAML

pheirce

TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 15:22

I see there are quite a few people who believe int he Streisand school of governance.

I'd hate to see what a country would be like with you people at the helm :P

And REDWOLF, I'm curious, what kind of proof do you need to go willingly to oust Saddam? Is the dosier provided by the British enough proof?

And Cobalt, based on what I've seen you post here and what I've heard from Bush (both spoken and in his book), I'd be willing to bet that Bush has a much higher IQ and longer list of accomplishments than you.

-pheirce

DoMiNuS

CTF = the suck

2002-09-26 15:43

Cimat rocks.

Knights of Invictus

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt Worshipper and TWL Contributor

2002-09-26 15:45

the Drudge report- LOL!

Drudge gets owned by even the crappiest of bird cage liners, like USA today!

"Raving Liberal Lunatic"
Go Green! http://www.greenpartyus.org
Certified Conc Grenade Specialist
Call me Bro-Ham.......

pheirce

TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 15:52

Originally posted by: cimat1984

the Drudge report- LOL!

Drudge gets owned by even the crappiest of bird cage liners, like USA today!

First: Most of the Drudge Report content is links to other papers (Like NYTimes, LATimes, Washington Times, et al.). He rarely "breaks" a story, but when he does the liberals hate him for it (aka, Clinton perjuring himself in a court of law).

Second: How big a birdcage do you have to be able to put a monitor in it :P

-pheirce

R0mm3l69

TWL Member

2002-09-26 15:53

who's agains an attack?

Liberal Rump Swab pacifist's. Is that the type of answer you were looking for, because that's it.

"One must not judge everyone in the world by his qualities as a soldier: otherwise we should have no civilization"
Erwin Rommel, 1943 in a letter to his son

DoMiNuS

CTF = the suck

2002-09-26 16:00

easy pheirce... Cobalt's just posting his opinion...no matter how deragatory and bad mouthed it may be. I think it's safe to say no one here as much as we are have a list of accomplishments as any president of the us has.

Look folks... i've done this before and I'll gladly give a refreshment couse on this...

bin Laden and Saddam have no love for each other, that's a known fact. But they both have a common enemy = the US. Your enemy's enemy thing... It's also already been revealed by Connie Rice that some of the senior terrorists associated with bin laden's group were or had sent people to be trained in chemical weaponry in Iraq. Now, mind you, I am unaware of any 'official' documentation on this..but I am sure that there would be something official about it other than a statement from someone prior to us attacking anybody.

Iraq's regime has consistently not played ball with the UN... what more proof would you need? I go back to what I had posted in a similiar thread... Put yourself in their shoes. If you knowingly and admittedly had chemical/biological weapons prior to the Gulf War... invaded another country... got your ass handed to you...accepted a cease fire thru the UN via agreement to a number of resolutions and then broke those resolutions...what do you think you're breaking them for? So you can kick the inspectors out and rid yourself of the weapons? No... so you can continue to develop them. That's the common sense here. You do not kick United Nations inspectors out, break every UN resolution made that even started the cease fire to begin with.. just so you can throw you bad stash away...c'mon... smell the coffee.

Doesn't matter of it was Bush or someone else in the seat...we'd still be having this discussion because Iraq has, for years, been associated with terror networks. This isn't some sort of new development.

On a side note...Cobalt... for you to sit there comfortably in your seat and call the President of the United States what you have... I think you just paint a dirtier picture for others on your side of the fence to wield thru so they can try to prove their own points. Foul language only proves a lack of ability to speak intelligently.

Post edited by DoMiNuS at 9/26/2002 4:02:39 PM

Knights of Invictus

Sekdar

TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 16:10

pre-emptive strike? as in, have the media announce that we are attacking before we do? i'm against that

i support the kinds of attacks that the media doesn't know about

DoMiNuS

Zombee's Love SlaveTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 16:12

Originally posted by: cimat1984

I am right there beside you Cobalt. W does NOT represent me!

check out this site: Not In Our Name http://www.nion.us

Sign the petition to speak out against a senseless war.

Doh! Looks like CNN forgot to add Cimat to their poll!

http://www.cnn.com/POLL/results/226231.content.html

http://www.operationhomecomingusa.com/
http://www.ratherbiased.com/
"Kerry claims he will defend America. With what? Spitballs?" - Zell Miller D-Georgia

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt WorshipperTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 16:23

I saw that poll earlier- and they forgot to add a catagory. "Both"

Both sides are politicizing the war, and both sides will use it to their advantage in the fall election. The sad thing is-blood will be spilled in the desert, again. Over oil.

The Green Hammer
"I don't live in a red state or a blue state. I live in the United States."

Go Green! http://www.gp.org
Harrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt WorshipperTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 16:25

Originally posted by: AKA REDWOLF

Having gone to the first dance in the desert, I cna say this. IF and only IF some one shows me some proof will I go again willingly. but Since i do defend this country willingly if I am told go I go. its my job. I get paid to defend Cobalt and Cimat even if I don't agree with them (ever) however the one thing that has always given me great pride is knowing that my service does allow them the RIGHT to disagree.

the only thing I will say Cobalt is please disagree with him all you want, but please respect the man's title and don't call him and asshole. Go vote against him on the next election but respect the man's title.

thanks!

Red- what's your take on Gulf War syndrome? I've heards people saying that it exists, or it doesn't exist, or this causes it or that causes it. What has your experience been?

The Green Hammer
"I don't live in a red state or a blue state. I live in the United States."

Go Green! http://www.gp.org
Harrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

pheirce

Tin Foil HatTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 18:07

Preemptive means that we are going to attack first (i.e. be aggressive) in order to prevent him from attacking us. We consider an attack by him to be imminent (esp. after 9-11), so we are going to take away his capability to attack us.

-pheirce

DudeofDeath

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 20:10

And Start World War III in the process......

When you think you own the World, you soon find you don't!

We are about to make the same mistake Germany and Japan made in trying to establish the "New World Order" Bushy Boy's old man talked about.

A war against all Terrorism is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. You will NEVER stop an Individual or Group crazed enough to do a Suicide Bombing in a Free Society, EVER!!!

To Quash Al-Quida or whatever is one thing. All that our country has strived to work for last century has been wrecked by George W. Dumbass. We were a powerful nation that showed restraint and worked with the global community to fight problems globally, never attacking others unless provoked or attacked. Now we have a glorious First-Strike Policy and Numbnuts vowed that we will not let ANY other nation acheive SuperPower Status again. This would be a threat to our nation and we would have to attack first. If I were China or Russia I would be pretty pissed off at that statement and would be immediatly be making plans to attack the US full strenth. Any other country can now use this same argument to attack it's neighbors. This is what happens when u get a President with an IQ of 100 and the media and free press is supressed as it is currently. Many countries currently are beginning to see us,(Our Government), as the terrorists. Instead of looking for renewable energy, the Oil Men/Companies in Power are set to keep us using the polluting shit for another 100 years even though we have been told the world only has about 50 years+ of oil left....all so they can make a buck and all so the corporations can rule the world.

Bush is the 3rd anti-christ or unknowingly one of his helpers,(Bin Laden is probably the real Perse), that Nostrodamus fortold of..."He who would deceive his people"....Many of the Quatrains have come to pass...

After the attack on the Towers The next Quatrain IX.55 reads: "The dreadful war is being prepared in the West, the following year will be followed by the pestilence: so very horrible that young, nor old nor animal [will survive] blood, fire, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter in France.

In other words shits about to hit the fan!!! All because we got to Arrogant....Lets hope his ass is wrong on this one.... Oh, and Bin Laden is dead as shit if anyone hasn't fiqured that out yet!! Flame away...please bros....hehe

Koko

TeamWarfare Vet

2002-09-26 20:37

I deleted my reply, because arguing politics on the internet is an even bigger waste of time than arguing whether waypoint spam is cheating.

ThrillKillKulT

I like teh BotoxTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 22:26

here is my take: keep in mind I don't care what any media source says, they all lie and misinform from both sides, so my take is just what my wee brain and gut intincts tell me.

1. The Middle eastern Regimes have been using war and a known common hatred of their citezins towards Israel (like hitler did) to help manipulate world events in such a way to keep oil prices up, and regional stability down. this is how these ultra wealthy dicators stay in power.

2. The Truth noone is ready to accept is these regimes need to be replaced with republics or there will never be world peace these tree hugging liberal want.

3. so lets roll up our sleeves and get down to it. putting it off won't make it go away. we need to send the message that we will no longer sit by and allow these regimes to get away with terrorism no more.

if you seriously think that Sadam and co. did not aid Al queda , you are in denial.

btw, if we attack Iraq, i will be likely sent to one of the freezemyassoffistans, which i will willingly go, because i know the cause is right. someday some generation will have to pay the price to reinstate the pursuit of happiness for our children. might as well be mine.
Post edited by ThrillKillKulT at 9/26/2002 10:28:47 PM

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt WorshipperTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 22:33

Well, TKK, this tree hugging Green hopes you don't have to go.

The Green Hammer
"I don't live in a red state or a blue state. I live in the United States."

Go Green! http://www.gp.org
Harrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

ThrillKillKulT

I like teh BotoxTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 22:35

Originally posted by: DudeofDeath

Bush is the 3rd anti-christ or unknowingly one of his helpers,(Bin Laden is probably the real Perse), that Nostrodamus fortold of..."He who would deceive his people"....Many of the Quatrains have come to pass...

/QUOTE]

Dude, nostradamas was a fraud and a crazy man. he had vague enough prophecys that some event eventually would fit it. he didnt foretell shit. none of his quatrains came to pass. I.E. no matter where you are, a war is brewing in the west somewhere. that guy was a friggan moron

ThrillKillKulT

I like teh BotoxTWL Contributor

2002-09-26 22:44

some Nostradamus facts:

"A lot of this interest has been fueled by a series of e-mail messages. One anonymous message, widely circulated in the United States, claims that Nostradamus foretold the destruction in some detail. The message included this quatrain:

In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two Brothers torn apart by Chaos,
While the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
Ostensibly, the "two brothers" refers to the twin towers, the "fortress" refers to the Pentagon, the "great leader" refers to President Bush and "the big city" refers to New York. In fact, this quatrain is not the work of Nostradamus -- it is a complete fabrication. "

go here for a good articule on how nostradamas is not really a prophet at all.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/nostradamus4.htm

Sly Duck

I'm a Quack

2002-09-26 23:50

Nostradamus! Hold on! I'm still laughing! That guy got his so called prophecies by getting stoned and putting a diving rod in water! I've read most of his quatrains and they're a crock of shit! Sorry, I usually don't like to express strong opinions cause I'd have to deal with people, but saying the Nostradamus has validity! That's too much!
Post edited by Sly Duck at 9/27/2002 12:31:39 AM

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Don't listen to this guy. He just rambles on about random things and calls himself a philosopher because of it.

Sly Duck

I'm a Quack

2002-09-27 00:30

But on the subject. Something is only preemptive if it is the aggressor. Sadam has said he is working on biological and nuclear weapons. And that is plans to use them to their fullest capacity on the US. That's a bit aggresive to me. Personally, because I like saying, "I told ya so!", I would gladly wait for Sadam to use those weapons so we don't have people screaming foul. But morality compels me to say that the lose of life could, and indeed would, be far greater than that of 9/11. It is true that Sadam and bin Laden don't exactly like each other, but their common enemy is the US. Sadam has been linked to the 93 bombing of the WTC, and numerous bombings of US emabassies. There are even some some thing linking him to 9/11, but they don't have enough validity to really bother with. The sad thruth is that Bush does seem to be going a little too far with this "War on Terrorism". I do agree with his actions so far with it, but he does seem to be using it to distract people from his domestic agenda, which he is letting the Democrats write. Also, the Homeland security department approaches becoming the US version of the SS. To paraphrase Ceaser, "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of the war. Patriotism is a double edge sword, both boiling the blood and narrowing the mind. Such a leader need not take away the people's rights, for they will give it away willing."

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Don't listen to this guy. He just rambles on about random things and calls himself a philosopher because of it.

ZUSeaLily

Forum banned for life -- Polaris

2002-09-27 01:08

Originally posted by: cimat1984

I am totally against it! There is no evidence that Iraq and Al-Queda cooperate in any way.

Also, Saddam does not pose a clear and present danger to the united states. In addition, the US has no business getting stuck baby sitting a new government in Iraq for 20 years if we go in and oust Saddam.

NO WAR IN IRAQ!

Thanks for listening.

pheirce

Tin Foil HatTWL Contributor

2002-09-27 02:45

I've always found it to be the height of irony that men like TKK will stand up and risk life to protect the civil rights of candy asses who turn around and use those protected rights to bitch about the actions that the men like TKK used to ensure those rights.

Pretty funny if you think about it (and if you can follow it).

-pheirce

ThrillKillKulT

I like teh BotoxTWL Contributor

2002-09-27 14:37

Originally posted by: pheirce

I've always found it to be the height of irony that men like TKK will stand up and risk life to protect the civil rights of candy asses who turn around and use those protected rights to bitch about the actions that the men like TKK used to ensure those rights.

Pretty funny if you think about it (and if you can follow it).

-pheirce

please don't be thinking i am fighting with my life, though my gut instinct tells me i would if i had to (though noone can say for sure until tested in real life). i fix aircraft, i am hardly at risk, and feel as safe, maybe safer than anyone who lives in a big city these days. That is where terrorism fights. The Military has served me well and i feel i have served it well. Thanks to Bush Sr, i think no President will ever be able to get away with a Vietnam/korea style conflict where american lives are just thrown at the problem.
Post edited by ThrillKillKulT at 9/27/2002 2:42:29 PM

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt WorshipperTWL Contributor

2002-09-27 14:41

Candy ass? fuck you pheirce.

Just because I don't want to see hundreds or thousands of Americans die in the desert, and just because I don't want to see *another 200,000* Iraqi's die in the desert doesn't make me a candy ass. It makes me someone who values life.

If you want to go and fight Saddam, you bloodthirsty fucker, go right ahead.

Until then, do not EVER question my bravery or my patriotism. TKK and others may not agree with my ideas, but I am standing up for what I think is right, and most people don't even do that.

ThrillKillKulT

I like teh BotoxTWL Contributor

2002-09-27 14:43

whoa, easynow can't we all just get along. no? FoodFight!!!!!!!!!!!!

cimat1984

Tree Hugging Dirt WorshipperTWL Contributor

2002-09-27 14:47

That was rather harsh on my part. If people don't like the green party, fine, I'm used to that.

However, when people accuse me of using soldiers as shields for being a coward, or whatever, then I get pissed.

The true height of irony is that military people are usually the most reluctant to go to war, while armchair tough-guys, like pheirce, can't wait to see dead bodies on the battlefield.

ThrillKillKulT

I like teh BotoxTWL Contributor

2002-09-27 14:49

Originally posted by: cimat1984

I am standing up for what I think is right, and most people don't even do that.

as you should, and your right, not enough do. I don't think antiwar protesters are evil, or pussy's or whatever. I myself wish wars were not necessary. unfortunately I believe they are if i want my children to be happy and safe. and yes i am selfish, i care alot more for my children than the ones being Bred to hate us and to kill us whenever we drop our guard. so in that respect we must coerce our politicians to not just use military action, but to also force these countries into freedom. only way to eventually bring world peace. True world peace will cost much much blood. time to pay it.