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Should Bush/Dan-Rather have checked their documents better?

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2006-03-29 · 1 of 2 pages survived · 21 posts
This thread had 2 pages; 1 page was never captured by the Wayback Machine — some replies are missing.
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes? if so, should it do the CIA's job when it comes to international intelligence matters?

should CBS or pheirce been allowed to review intel that attested that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD?
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Originally posted by: ebay-noob
WTF WHY I AM SUSPENDED.. What In THe Fuck DID I DO. U TELL ME U STIPED F**ING TWL ADMINS. Ur all F**s. Ban Me idc i hate TWL! yup u SUSPENDED cuz i am too good for twl. u guys are f**ed..
Originally posted by: Pudd¿nheäd
you need to find jesus christ our saviour.
dont no and dont care really. i stopped watching CBS after the sp called prision scandle in Iraq. bummer cause, i was kinda liking CSI and this also happend to be the local station that carries the 49ers
Originally posted by: samUwell
dont no and dont care really. i stopped watching CBS after the sp called prision scandle in Iraq. bummer cause, i was kinda liking CSI and this also happend to be the local station that carries the 49ers


you mean Abu Ghraib? so called...as in it didn't happen?

anyway, yes they should have checked the documents and sources better. they really didn't take the time to review them that it deserved.


Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.
Post edited by Stryk at 10/5/2004 8:23:03 PM

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The Ohio State's Admissions Policy
ib4
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability.


actually, if I remember correctly, the story was leaked or a heads up was given to republicans. There were bloggers online giving reasons why the documents were fake while the story was still being aired.
I think anyway...
Originally posted by: HashPipe
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability.


actually, if I remember correctly, the story was leaked or a heads up was given to republicans. There were bloggers online giving reasons why the documents were fake while the story was still being aired.
I think anyway...

From what I understand, the republicans had only hours of notice about the documents while the DNC was aware of them 5 days before.
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The Ohio State's Admissions Policy
from what I heard, Stryk just called pheirce an i-net nerd, and Elvis Presley saw the memos 5 years ago.
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Originally posted by: ebay-noob
WTF WHY I AM SUSPENDED.. What In THe Fuck DID I DO. U TELL ME U STIPED F**ING TWL ADMINS. Ur all F**s. Ban Me idc i hate TWL! yup u SUSPENDED cuz i am too good for twl. u guys are f**ed..
Originally posted by: Pudd¿nheäd
you need to find jesus christ our saviour.
nothing of that nature can stay on the downlow that long. im sure there is a whole friggin spy network in the parties, like old USSR and USA.
ya, the republicans taught us WHAT NOT TO DO: DO NOT SPY ON THE OTHER PARTY.

Anyone knows who taught us that lesson?
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Originally posted by: ebay-noob
WTF WHY I AM SUSPENDED.. What In THe Fuck DID I DO. U TELL ME U STIPED F**ING TWL ADMINS. Ur all F**s. Ban Me idc i hate TWL! yup u SUSPENDED cuz i am too good for twl. u guys are f**ed..
Originally posted by: Pudd¿nheäd
you need to find jesus christ our saviour.
yes they both should have spotted the fakes...

one thing I think you might have overlooked in your zeal aria, he said "the one thing we got wrong". There were more than enough reasons to justify our actions against sadam imho. We got one wrong, a big one, but one.


I understand your point, I think wmd was the biggie we were all worried about.

If we had known then what we know now should we have gone in? Not in my opinion, but then, Sadam kinda signed his own death certificate in that regards by trying to rattle sabers with a guy who is quick to action. ( when I say rattle sabers, I am talking about his defiance, his challenging un sanctions, his challenging the no fly zone etc...)

Hind sight is 20-20, whats done is done and we need to decide what is best from this point on. Bickering about what we should have done is pointless, the administration has admited fault, lets focus our energies on something more pertanent and stop trying to nail our bbs adversaries to the wall.
while we are back on this subject, there is actually some movement.

rathergate apparently snagged a PHd Professor who appeared to fake some research to try and show the cbs memos were typed and not done on a computer.

this professor recreated a bush memo and published it in his report. he indicated (but didn't state) that the memo he recreated was typed on a typewriter with a font called "Typewriter". He then indicated that it had been typed on an IBM Selectric Composer Typewriter.

The Boston Globe was ready to use the evidence to run a story and Mary Mapes (producer of the fake CBS story) told a Dallas paper that the professors work was going to vindicate them.

Unfortunately, the professor left some very incriminating evidence in a public web folder called "supporting_documents". There were 2 previous drafts/revisions of the final image he used in his report. They were in this web folder and were in Photoshop format. The earliest image had much of the bush memo recreated, but there were several numbers and the superscript "th" missing. The second revision of the image had some numbers that appeared to have been floated in and the final revision had the "th" and all the numbers in there.

Also in his web folder was a screenshot of all the characters available in the font he claimed he used. When you look at the characters, you see why he left the numbers and the "th" out of the original PSD file. they simply don't match what is in the bush memo (not even close). it appears as if he floated the numebs and the "th" in from a completely differnt (and unidentified) font (i'm guessing times new roman).

after the bloggers surfaced this evidence, he quickly changed his report and stated in teh report that he didn't type the recreated memo, but he was just trying to show a font that existed back then. unfortunately, he still made the claim that the font was all the same font in the memo.

the bloggers called his boss in order to report academic fraud. when this happened, the good professor took his whol website down. he apparently told his boss that he was just involved in academic research and was concerned about the "partisan" bloggers attempts to stifle his academic freedom.

his boss told him to put the report back up and let it stand. the university would back his right to do research. the report went back up, but the "supporting_documents" folder was cleaned out (so much so that it broke the professors web version of his report). luckily the bloggers had grabbed everything in the folder before the professor purged it.

the university went to the press and tried to get what basically was a press release (talking about how mean the emails were that the professor was getting) published. unfortunately for the university, the best case scenario is that the professor did extremely shoddy work. first and foremost, he failed to publish his methodology. any academic research without a methodology (so people can verify) is worthless.

at worst, the professor was trying to shill for CBS and john kerry. bloggers were also able to discover that the professor had donated money to the john kerry campaign.

i've talked with the author of the first news piece about the incident (the one that basically complained about how mean the emails were) and he told me that he was definitely going to do a follow-up piece (he thinks it'll publish tomorrow). apparently he's been getting a bload of emails from academians who are not too happy with the quality of the professor's "research".

now, apparently, the professor is upset because his good standing with the academic community has been shot all to hell.

he's blaming the bloggers. he should be blaming himself.

(links, links and more links)

-pheirce

p.s. i never published my research into the ibm selectric composer because i thought the matter was dead after dan rather admitted that they couldn't verify the docs. i've decided to go ahead and finish the research and get it out there.

edit: btw, i AM an i-net nerd and damn proud of it
Post edited by pheirce at 10/6/2004 5:19:04 AM

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"the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God." -- John F. Kennedy
"I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." -- John Kerry, Democratic Primary Debate, 5/03/03
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.


BINGO!
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.


cbs was wrong. ditto on the republicans so eager to have reasons to rush to war with the easily spotted forgeries. which is worse, if either? take yer pick.
Originally posted by: ZiPLoCk
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.


cbs was wrong. ditto on the republicans so eager to have reasons to rush to war with the easily spotted forgeries. which is worse, if either? take yer pick.


1..There were not easily spotted forgeries in the CIA case. Every single gov't said they thought it was accurate. So trying to compare what CBS did and the intelligence failure are completely different. Trying to compare the two as the same is not only wrong, its shows that those trying to do it have no clue about how the intelligence apparatus works in any country
__________________________________________________________
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: ZiPLoCk
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.


cbs was wrong. ditto on the republicans so eager to have reasons to rush to war with the easily spotted forgeries. which is worse, if either? take yer pick.


1..There were not easily spotted forgeries in the CIA case. Every single gov't said they thought it was accurate. So trying to compare what CBS did and the intelligence failure are completely different. Trying to compare the two as the same is not only wrong, its shows that those trying to do it have no clue about how the intelligence apparatus works in any country


again, u are completely wrong. they were easily spotted. here is a nice step by step link on how to do it.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/uranium030716flaweddocs.html

ly 16— The forged documents detailing the supposed sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq were published today in a Rome newspaper — obvious flaws and all.

[Click Here]

Among the many glaring errors evident in the documents, which were allegedly produced by an underpaid Nigerien diplomat and published in La Repubblica, are the use of obsolete letterheads, incompatible dates and poorly forged signatures.

In one document that supposedly formalizes the sale of uranium to Iraq, dated October 2000, bears the signature of a man who has not been Niger's foreign minister since 1989.

• Click here to see document

Another letter is both addressed to the president of Niger and signed by the president of Niger — although it uses the wrong symbol for the president's office.

• Click here to see document

The forger also had a difficult time keeping his dates straight. A third document, dated July 1999, refers in the past tense to a supposed agreement in June 2000.

• Click here to see document

A congressman is calling for an investigation.

"The U.S. government still considers these documents to be classified and the discussion about them is taking place behind closed doors," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. "I think we need public hearings now that ABC has made them available and we know they are a hoax."

The same questions are being raised in Britain. Prime Minister Tony Blair also relied on the forged documents when making the case for war in Iraq.

In a combative session in Parliament, Blair insisted it still might be true that Iraq attempted to buy uranium from Niger.

"It is not beyond the bounds of possibility, let's at least put it like this, that they went back to Niger again," he said. "And that is why I stand by entirely the statement that was made in the September dossier."
Originally posted by: ZiPLoCk
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: ZiPLoCk
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.


cbs was wrong. ditto on the republicans so eager to have reasons to rush to war with the easily spotted forgeries. which is worse, if either? take yer pick.


1..There were not easily spotted forgeries in the CIA case. Every single gov't said they thought it was accurate. So trying to compare what CBS did and the intelligence failure are completely different. Trying to compare the two as the same is not only wrong, its shows that those trying to do it have no clue about how the intelligence apparatus works in any country


again, u are completely wrong. they were easily spotted. here is a nice step by step link on how to do it.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/uranium030716flaweddocs.html

ly 16— The forged documents detailing the supposed sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq were published today in a Rome newspaper — obvious flaws and all.

[Click Here]

Among the many glaring errors evident in the documents, which were allegedly produced by an underpaid Nigerien diplomat and published in La Repubblica, are the use of obsolete letterheads, incompatible dates and poorly forged signatures.

In one document that supposedly formalizes the sale of uranium to Iraq, dated October 2000, bears the signature of a man who has not been Niger's foreign minister since 1989.

• Click here to see document

Another letter is both addressed to the president of Niger and signed by the president of Niger — although it uses the wrong symbol for the president's office.

• Click here to see document

The forger also had a difficult time keeping his dates straight. A third document, dated July 1999, refers in the past tense to a supposed agreement in June 2000.

• Click here to see document

A congressman is calling for an investigation.

"The U.S. government still considers these documents to be classified and the discussion about them is taking place behind closed doors," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. "I think we need public hearings now that ABC has made them available and we know they are a hoax."

The same questions are being raised in Britain. Prime Minister Tony Blair also relied on the forged documents when making the case for war in Iraq.

In a combative session in Parliament, Blair insisted it still might be true that Iraq attempted to buy uranium from Niger.

"It is not beyond the bounds of possibility, let's at least put it like this, that they went back to Niger again," he said. "And that is why I stand by entirely the statement that was made in the September dossier."


What you are failing to grasp as usual is this info wasnt present at the time. Its called hindsight. We see now it was wrong, but at the time you cannot afford the luxory of hoping its wrong.

So you saying Im completely wrong is showing you don't understand how a leader works or for that matter gov't
__________________________________________________________
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Every single gov't said they thought it was accurate.


i know britain for sure said they thought they were accurate. im sure others may have as well. can u link how every single gov't swore by their authenticity please.
u managed to post the same article on kerrys vote twice, waitin on this stuff.
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: ZiPLoCk
Originally posted by: ~~Snake~~
Originally posted by: ZiPLoCk
Originally posted by: Stryk
Originally posted by: Aria Giovanni.pZ
what do you think?

should CBS be able to spot fakes?

When some i-net nerds can spot the fakes within a few hours of them being published, I'd say determining these documents were suspect was well within CBS's ability. And they did get advised not to use them by a couple of their own examiners. They didn't want to believe they were anything but real.


cbs was wrong. ditto on the republicans so eager to have reasons to rush to war with the easily spotted forgeries. which is worse, if either? take yer pick.


1..There were not easily spotted forgeries in the CIA case. Every single gov't said they thought it was accurate. So trying to compare what CBS did and the intelligence failure are completely different. Trying to compare the two as the same is not only wrong, its shows that those trying to do it have no clue about how the intelligence apparatus works in any country


again, u are completely wrong. they were easily spotted. here is a nice step by step link on how to do it.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/uranium030716flaweddocs.html

ly 16— The forged documents detailing the supposed sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq were published today in a Rome newspaper — obvious flaws and all.

[Click Here]

Among the many glaring errors evident in the documents, which were allegedly produced by an underpaid Nigerien diplomat and published in La Repubblica, are the use of obsolete letterheads, incompatible dates and poorly forged signatures.

In one document that supposedly formalizes the sale of uranium to Iraq, dated October 2000, bears the signature of a man who has not been Niger's foreign minister since 1989.

• Click here to see document

Another letter is both addressed to the president of Niger and signed by the president of Niger — although it uses the wrong symbol for the president's office.

• Click here to see document

The forger also had a difficult time keeping his dates straight. A third document, dated July 1999, refers in the past tense to a supposed agreement in June 2000.

• Click here to see document

A congressman is calling for an investigation.

"The U.S. government still considers these documents to be classified and the discussion about them is taking place behind closed doors," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. "I think we need public hearings now that ABC has made them available and we know they are a hoax."

The same questions are being raised in Britain. Prime Minister Tony Blair also relied on the forged documents when making the case for war in Iraq.

In a combative session in Parliament, Blair insisted it still might be true that Iraq attempted to buy uranium from Niger.

"It is not beyond the bounds of possibility, let's at least put it like this, that they went back to Niger again," he said. "And that is why I stand by entirely the statement that was made in the September dossier."


What you are failing to grasp as usual is this info wasnt present at the time. Its called hindsight. We see now it was wrong, but at the time you cannot afford the luxory of hoping its wrong.

So you saying Im completely wrong is showing you don't understand how a leader works or for that matter gov't


what do u mean this info wasnt present at the time?

lmfao.

all the facts that made them forgeries were already there.

"n one document that supposedly formalizes the sale of uranium to Iraq, dated October 2000, bears the signature of a man who has not been Niger's foreign minister since 1989.
"

-i dont think that info wasnt available

"The forger also had a difficult time keeping his dates straight. A third document, dated July 1999, refers in the past tense to a supposed agreement in June 2000."

-that too. last time i checked 2000 was still known to be after 1999, even in 2002 or 2003 when they used that document.

"Another letter is both addressed to the president of Niger and signed by the president of Niger — although it uses the wrong symbol for the president's office."

-wow, another piece of info that was available at that time. i see a trend. must be a conspiracy theory

"n one document that supposedly formalizes the sale of uranium to Iraq, dated October 2000, bears the signature of a man who has not been Niger's foreign minister since 1989."

-hmmm seems to me that this info as well was available. i dunno. maybe i am too easily led by, you know, the advancement of time as in 1989 is way before 2000 and this was known when they cited this document. wait, unless dick cheney maybe has a time machine and got confused? is that what yyou are sayin?


Like I said that info wasnt available at the time. It came out after the fact.

And if you are not aware of the global intelligence failures since this topic was discussed time and time again by Cobalt and others. I am not gonna keep spending time doing research that you should already know

Why don't you look up Global Intelligence failures and learn a thing or two
__________________________________________________________
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill

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