Requesting 1v1 Armor Ladder Map Change

Map name Seine Crossing is a small map as it is. Using the large conquest map for Seine Crossing expands the US side of the canal 1 city street parallel to the street beside the canal and US side can use the 2 streets on their side of the river rather than being forced to advance toward the RU side. The US side in small conquest Seine Crossing map has no advantage because it is exposed at all time and nothing to use as cover. I large conquest map evens the battle ground and gives both sides an even advantage. As of now US side has no choice but to advance in RU side of the canal with a 50-50 chance of being ambushed everytime. Please jump in TWL server and change the map to Seine Crossing and see for yourself before you make a decision and not see it from the view of people that do not participate in the 1v1 Armor Ladder.

First time it's come up.

Anyone else on the armor ladder feeling this way?

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GreenEyed|TWL-AC
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The distance from the RU base to the canal is significantly further. Off the top of my head it would take the US guy using the fastest route about 15-20 seconds to round a corner and over look the bridge and canal.

It would take the US guy all of 5 seconds to cross the bridge. He can now choose to go straight up the left hill in the tight streets or turn right and head to the junction. Hell he could even set up an ambush by taking a left right after the bridge and sitting back there waiting for the RU guy to come down to the canal side.

The argument that you need more room is not relevant as you will be way over the bridge before the other guy can see where you are heading.

Now if you don't like or are not good at close range tanking then yes I can see this map being hell for you. That's not a reason to try and adapt the map to be one of lobbing shells long range over the canal. It was meant to be a CQ map. Adapt.

For some reason that map keeps coming up in my matches, all but 2 matches. I've had no problem with playing as the US. The US side has plenty of cover, trees, wall thingy, watch tower, etc, not to mention being out of bounds to the RUS and being able to get to a good spot quickly that has an almost unobstructed view of the road leading to the RUS base. Not to mention what XSahdes said.
Post edited by MarineCorps121 at 8/17/2012 9:51:51 PM

Thank you, Marine.

You are right, that map has been played the most, and this is the first time it has come up.

We won't change it for the vocal minority. If over 50% of the ladder feels as Laser does, though, we will most certainly make a change.
Post edited by GreenEyed=VX9= at 8/17/2012 9:59:17 PM

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GreenEyed|TWL-AC
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i tried to get my first match on Seine changed to large in match comms but it didn't happen, i would much rather play large.

Originally posted by: GreenEyed=VX9=
Thank you, Marine.

You are right, that map has been played the most, and this is the first time it has come up.

Any chance this could be changed? I see 3 matches currently that are playing this map. Seems a bit odd that this map get chosen more then others.

You can always ask to get a map changed. Maps are randomly picked by the site.

BF3 Caspian Border - 3 - 8.33%
BF3 Grand Bazaar -2 - 5.56%
BF3 Kharg Island - 6 - 16.67%
BF3 Operation Firestorm - 9 - 25.00%
BF3 Seine Crossing - 10 - 27.78%
BF3 Tehran Highway - 6 - 16.67%
Total - 36 - 100.00%

Originally posted by: MarineCorps121
The US side has plenty of cover, trees, wall thingy, watch tower, etc, Not to mention what XSahdes said.

1) Trees = Width of a tree is less then 1/4 width of a tank (This is known as 1 of the best covers ever)

2) Wall Thingy = Try a wall rail along the canal about 1/2 the height of a tank exposing 1/2 of the tank. (This is known as the best cover)

3) Watch Tower = Try the watch tower can be destroyed ending your so called plenty cover (This also can be known as the best cover)

Are we all 4 year olds here or did you not see when I said jump into TWL server and put map to Seine Crossing and see for yourself. Venomous seems to know what cover is to a tank, take it from the rank 1 tanker on the ladder that knows how to tank.

Originally posted by: XShades
Now if you don't like or are not good at close range tanking then yes I can see this map being hell for you. That's not a reason to try and adapt the map to be one of lobbing shells long range over the canal. It was meant to be a CQ map. Adapt.

Rather than adapt and listen to a player not on the ladder I will settle for you joining the ladder so I can show you how tanking is done.

Post edited by LaserSights at 8/18/2012 2:14:48 AM

Originally posted by: XShades
It would take the US guy all of 5 seconds to cross the bridge. He can now choose to go straight up the left hill in the tight streets or turn right and head to the junction. Hell he could even set up an ambush by taking a left right after the bridge and sitting back there waiting for the RU guy to come down to the canal side.

The objective is not about ambush entirely. Giving the US side another street to manuveur in allows room for more strategy than just going head up. Strategy like continuous fire and cover and not cover behind little thingies. Real tank cover like city buildings or large enough objects not destructable watch towers. The map is a small rush map designed for infantry and suicide with armor because infantry have better manuvuering through places tanks cannot go through and you can destroy tanks all day and night with RPGs.

And so finally the real reason he does not like the map is revealed.

Yes it is a tight urban map and YES that forces a different style of tanking. However BOTH you and your enemy have to deal with the urban environment. If you make the choice to try and force ranged combat by staying on your side of the canal you DO NOT get to complain that you don't have enough cover or room.

Get your ass over the bridge and engage in close range tanking, stop trying to complain your way out of it.
Post edited by XShades at 8/18/2012 11:57:43 AM

Originally posted by: LaserSights

Originally posted by: MarineCorps121
The US side has plenty of cover, trees, wall thingy, watch tower, etc, Not to mention what XSahdes said.

1) Trees = Width of a tree is less then 1/4 width of a tank (This is known as 1 of the best covers ever)

2) Wall Thingy = Try a wall rail along the canal about 1/2 the height of a tank exposing 1/2 of the tank. (This is known as the best cover)

3) Watch Tower = Try the watch tower can be destroyed ending your so called plenty cover (This also can be known as the best cover)

Are we all 4 year olds here or did you not see when I said jump into TWL server and put map to Seine Crossing and see for yourself. Venomous seems to know what cover is to a tank, take it from the rank 1 tanker on the ladder that knows how to tank.

1. The trees that are at the bottom of the canal and poke up near street level are pretty good.

2. I was was actually talking about the big 10 foot walls on the bridges but the side walls aren't bad either. I've had shots hit the walls and not the enemy.

3. Tower will take at least of couple shots normally before coming down and leaving a large chunk of wreckage sitting there. Seeing as your opponents long range shots are coming to you at a downward angle, thats an advantage.

. Venomous seems to know what cover is to a tank, take it from the rank 1 tanker on the ladder that knows how to tank.

Originally posted by: XShades
Now if you don't like or are not good at close range tanking then yes I can see this map being hell for you. That's not a reason to try and adapt the map to be one of lobbing shells long range over the canal. It was meant to be a CQ map. Adapt.

Rather than adapt and listen to a player not on the ladder I will settle for you joining the ladder so I can show you how tanking is done.

A few things here lasersights.

1. Not only am I on the ladder, but I am ranked 1, which leads to my next point:

2. I played you.

3. My first kill on you was was because on crossing as the US you decided that it would be a good idea to back up and camp right in front of B, leaving your reactive armor lacking tanks ass exposed to an alley way that I came through....

As it stands now, lets just say that both tankers are playing passive and strategic on Seine small, does one tank have an advantage over the other? i sort of think the RU side has an advantage because of...

#1 the T-90 is up higher therefore shooting down onto the Abrams (given he stays by his deployment, by the D flag, or at the corner heading to C.

#2 the Abrams can really never hide completely, sometimes you can on the US side of the C Flag bridge behind the tower(but as has been mentioned that can be taken down.)

Yes, you can pillar around corners of buildings, but with the map being so small you never get the chance to do that and here is why.

when in a match it is your responsibility to rush your opponent and pin him down when you have a shot or two into him, do not give him a chance back up and hide for any amount of time and repair. So you will find that on this map as soon as the engagements start, they are over just as quick. Extremely difficult to on this map play to the style i like to play mostly, I personally would like to see Seine Large implemented instead. A little more room i don't think would hurt.

Just my .02

Originally posted by: XShades
And so finally the real reason he does not like the map is revealed.

Yes it is a tight urban map and YES that forces a different style of tanking. However BOTH you and your enemy have to deal with the urban environment. If you make the choice to try and force ranged combat by staying on your side of the canal you DO NOT get to complain that you don't have enough cover or room.

Get your ass over the bridge and engage in close range tanking, stop trying to complain your way out of it.

I think you might be a little unfair in your statement, even if we did go to Seine large it would still be the smallest map in the rotation. (probably about the same size as Bazaar.) Ranged combat takes place on Firestorm, Kharg, and Caspian. Ranged combat cannot take place on Seine Large, your still only at most 180 meters away from your opponent, that's still considered close combat compared to the other maps as far as I'm concerned. I'm gathering that your giving Laser shit because for whatever reason you don't like him.
That seems obvious.
Post edited by Venomous67 at 8/19/2012 9:18:47 AM

Seine is a one sided map. M1 Abrams has huge disadvantage given the front armor glitch and topography disadvantage.

Oh well.

Could always ask other player but if they are attacker they will most likely pick RUS side and not want to change then. Think Conquest Large on this map would be a good change.

Would still like to hear more people for changing the map because of an actual disadvantage, and not due to a different playstyle than they are used to.

I'm seeing it as 50-50 right now.

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GreenEyed|TWL-AC
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What was the thought process from a twl admin standpoint to add seine small over large to the rotation in the first place?

Congruence between all maps - All are the same Server Setting.

Difference of maps so its not all the same gameplay over and over.
SixShotSean

Caspian Border: Large or small it doesn't make the map smaller or bigger, vehicles spawn in the same local no matter what, just decreases flags.

Operation Firestorm: Large or small it doesn't make the map smaller or bigger, vehicles spawn in the same local no matter what, just decreases flags.

Kharg Island: Large or small it doesn't make the map smaller or bigger, vehicles spawn in the same local no matter what, just decreases flags.

Grand Bazaar: Large or small it doesn't make the map smaller or bigger, vehicles spawn in the same local no matter what, just decreases flags.

Tehran Highway: Large or small it doesn't make the map smaller or bigger, vehicles spawn in the same local no matter what, just decreases flags.

Seine Crossing: Makes the map smaller and changes the local at with which a Tank spawns.

And while we are at it, some of the best tank battles in BF2 2 v 2 were on Strike, I'm all for adding Karkand and Sharqi to the rotations as well, no real reason to limit ourselves here, we are in this for the fun of it. A King of the hill kinda thing and we shouldn't sell ourselves short here as far as maps go.

Originally posted by: GreenEyed=VX9=
Would still like to hear more people for changing the map because of an actual disadvantage, and not due to a different playstyle than they are used to.

I'm seeing it as 50-50 right now.

Laser- Large
Venom- Large
Daskro- Large
Mazza- Large
Marine- prolly on the fence
Shades - Troll
hardly 50-50
Post edited by Venomous67 at 8/20/2012 7:48:30 PM

Alright, from this point on all maps are Conquest Large. Sharqi & Karkand will be added to the rotation.

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GreenEyed|TWL-AC
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Add me to the large side im all about skill wins crossing takes no skill to win lol theres nowhere to hide on the us side pretty lame if u ask me crossing period is a noob map hell with play style that map is for killing ground troops not other tanks.

Originally posted by: GreenEyed=VX9=
Alright, from this point on all maps are Conquest Large. Sharqi & Karkand will be added to the rotation.

good call dude

Skill = ability to hide.... Got it thanks that clears that up then.

Originally posted by: XShades
Skill = ability to hide.... Got it thanks that clears that up then.

Apparently you never heard these words of wisdom, "Run when it is time to run, hide when it is time to hide". If you were smart you would change up strategy and hide to ambush your opponent. Going head on is basicly no skill just 1 big collision course. Seine Crossing large at least allows the US side to hide when it is time to hide.

Post edited by LaserSights at 8/25/2012 9:55:30 PM

Hop over the bridge and go hide. Problem?

I'm not even sure why this concerns you? your not even in the ladder....go troll somewhere else dude you are not wanted here.

He doesn't compete in anything nore is he in a team so piss off?

^^^^^^^^^

LOL

Originally posted by: GreenEyed=VX9=
Alright, from this point on all maps are Conquest Large. Sharqi & Karkand will be added to the rotation.

Good call on going to large and adding a couple of maps to the rotation.

Gulf of Oman was good armor map used in BF2 2v2 Armor Ladder too.


Post edited by LaserSights at 8/25/2012 10:00:16 PM