2v2 Chopper Ladder Rules Update

There has been an issue raised in the 2v2 chopper recently about the rules. A team states that a match is to be played on 2 (or 3) maps and that points are scored by killing the infantry inside the aircraft.

This is a misconception, however the rules (which are not up to date), support them. The rules have been clarified by admins in these two posts:

/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=730&threadid=479647

/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=730&threadid=478778

As a member of the team which has played the most matches (Team Purge, 10 matches), we have played all 10 of our matches on one map, best 2 out of 3 rounds. 8 of those 10 were played with points scored by chopper destroys. The other two were played by infantry kills as agreed to at the start of the round (we have found that playing by infantry kills is imbalanced and leaves gaps and loopholes in the ruleset). None of our matches were disputed.

Multiple teams we played against confirmed that they had spoken with admins and were told that the ruleset which we have always played with is correct.

I would like to request an updated set of rules for the 2v2 chopper ladder which reflect the rules with which every team except, apparently, 206th, have been playing. In addition to this, due to the nature of recent patches, I would also request some changes to the rules such as described in my post here:
/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=730&threadid=479630
As well as in posts by others on these forums. I'm a bit lacking on time at the moment, but when I get a chance later tonight I will post a proposal for the updated ruleset.

It should be selecting 3 maps now to start. There was a bug that was only giving you one map and Six has corrected that.

Scoring has always been for a chopper kill = 1 point. Or 1 point if you happen to shoot the gunner and the pilot out of the aircraft.

Either way, it's up to 13 dogfights per round (first to 7). Just because their is an extra person in the aircraft it does not double the points per kill. This is a dogfight, the point being to destroy the aircraft, not kill 2 infantry.

Quoting from Chowder's post in the first thread:

-----------------------------------------------------
/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=730&threadid=479647

"OK all..

Discuss. And no flaming or trolling.

-Format:
Type of Gameplay: CONQUEST LARGE
Number of Maps: 1 <----
Number of Teams: 2
Members per Roster: 5
Members per Match: 2
Rounds: 2 <----
Friendly Fire: On
3D Spotting: Off
Vehicle Third Person: On
Crosshair: On
Kill Cam: Off
Hardcore: Off
Minimap: On
Minimap Spotting: On
Map Selection: Randomly selected by site
Side Selection: Attacking team gets side selection for Round 1. The defending team will have side selection if overtime is necessary.
Server Selection: Defending team gets server selection if both teams are capable of providing a server

...

Side note. Whatever is decided will be utilized for the 1v1 and the 2v2 Chopper ladder. <----

Thank you. "

("<----" added by me for emphasis)


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Quoting from you now (your first post in the second thread I linked):

/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=730&threadid=478778

"7 points wins the round. Ticket count doesn't matter nor does points scored for losing team in a round.

If team A wins a round and team B wins a round, you go to a tiebreaker round. First to 7 wins that round and the match. <----"

(again, emphasis mine)


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As can be seen from the decision to limit the 1v1 dogfight ladder to one map ( /viewladderdetails.asp?ladder=Battlefield+3%3A+NA+-+1v1+Dogfight ) and from Chowder's post indicating that this decision applies to the 2v2 Chopper ladder as well as your post indicating that there are at most 3 rounds played per match, I believe that the chopper ladder should, in fact, only be played on one map.

Thanks for clarifying the scoring system by the way, the line (quoting from the rules): "Points count by the aircraft being destroyed, or by a player who was shot shot out of a aircraft." is ambiguous and made it seem like shooting one of the players out would count as a point.

Still working on that proposal, as there's still a few issues that I can see + all the things the recent patches have introduced. For example (one relevant to the above) whether or not a player who has been shot out can respawn.

Also, just a note about having 3 maps: Even playing on only one map, two evenly matched teams (Such as Aerial Aces and Team Purge) will have matches which last around an hour and 30 minutes (that's not including an overtime round, just the first 2). I think more maps than that is too much of a time commitment for anyone, especially for just one match.
Post edited by idodgebull3ts at 4/22/2012 11:34:46 PM

Well, should we put this to a vote or just post up here?

1 map or 3 maps? Post your vote.

---

TWL|GreenEyed
TeamWarfare BF3 Ladder Admin
Email: GreenEyed@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_bf

My vote, of course, is for 1 map.

Here's my proposal for a change in rules in full:

---------------------------------------------------------

-Format:
Type of Gameplay: CONQUEST LARGE
Number of Maps: 1
Number of Teams: 2
Members per Roster: 5
Members per Match: 2
Rounds: 2 per map
Friendly Fire: On
3D Spotting: Off
Vehicle Third Person: On
Crosshair: On
Kill Cam: Off
Hardcore: Off
Minimap: On
Minimap Spotting: On
Map Selection: Randomly selected by site
Side Selection: Attacking team gets side selection on the first round. If there is a tie the team with the most points gets side choice in the overtime round. If tied in points, the Defending team will get side choice.
Server Selection: Defending team gets server selection if both teams are capable of providing a server




Server Config:

punkBuster.activate
vars.Ranked false
vars.gamePassword "enter server password here"
admin.password ""
vars.serverName "enter server name here"
vars.bannerUrl ""
vars.serverDescription ""
vars.crossHair true
vars.friendlyFire true
vars.idletimeout 0
vars.teamKillCountForKick 50
vars.teamKillValueForKick 54
vars.teamKillValueIncrease 1
vars.teamKillValueDecreasePerSecond 0
vars.autoBalance false
vars.killCam false
vars.miniMap true
vars.3dSpotting false
vars.miniMapSpotting true
vars.3pCam true
vars.vehicleSpawnAllowed true
vars.vehicleSpawnDelay 50
vars.bulletDamage 100
vars.nameTag true
vars.regenerateHealth false
vars.roundRestartPlayerCount 1
vars.roundStartPlayerCount 2
vars.onlySquadLeaderSpawn false
vars.soldierHealth 100
vars.hud true
vars.playerManDownTime 100
vars.playerRespawnTime 100
vars.maxPlayers 8
vars.unlockMode all
vars.roundLockdownCountdown 30

br>
-How You Win:
2 rounds to 7 points will be played.
Example:
Round 1
First team to 7 points wins that round.
Switch Sides and first team to 7 points wins that round.
If a tie, continue to the overtime round and play to 7 points. Team with the most points gets side choice. If tied in points, Defending team gets side choice.

Objective: A win will be the first team to score 7 points using any means from both team members inside the aircraft. Missile kills, gun kills, and rams will be counted.


When a team has their aircraft ready (both players in the aircraft) to be used they will say READY in chat. When the other Team has their aircraft ready (both players in the aircraft) to be used they will say READY. Then either (or both) team(s) may say GO in chat after both teams have said ready which means to take off and dogfight.

Each team can do anything, from inside the aircraft, to score a kill. At any time you can return to base to repair/refit. A player may exit the chopper while landed in base to repair. If a player bails out of a chopper while in flight he may not return to the chopper for the duration of the fight.

Points count by the aircraft being destroyed, or by shooting both players out of an aircraft. If shot out of the aircraft a player cannot respawn for the duration of the fight.

After a team shoots down the enemy aircraft they must return to their base with their chopper intact and land. A team may land a disabled chopper anywhere on the map after a fight to repair before returning to base. If the chopper is destroyed at any point between the end of the fight and landing, intact, in the base, it is a point for the other team. Once the aircraft is ready to dogfight again the team will say Ready, post the score, and begin again.

Example.
RU destroys US aircraft making the score 2-1.
RU aircraft will return to their base. Prepare for the next dogfight, post 2-1 Ready. Other team will post 1-2 Go.

Once BF3 registers the 7th kill for a team, the round is over. Any events that happen after or during BF3 announcing a kill are considered non-events. This is includes a ram/collision event. In the event of a ram, whoever BF3 deems as "getting the 7th kill" is considered the Round winner, regardless of all other events. Once BF3 registers a winner (7th kill), the round is over. Surviving aircraft must return to its original pad and both team members must exit the chopper and start the next round.

-Maps that could be choosen randomly:
LARGE CONQUEST MAPS
Caspian Border, Operation Firestorm, Kharg Island, Noshahr Canals, Gulf of Oman, or Wake Island.

-Approved vehicles:
AH-1 Super Cobra, Mi-28.

-Banned weapons/unlocks:
All lock-on weapons (i.e. heatseekers (pilot), guided missile (gunner))

-Team Captains
Teams founders are allowed to appoint a maximum of three team captains for this ladder. If we catch a team with additional captains then we will randomly remove the excess captains' status and may kick players if it becomes a persistent problem.
---------------------------------------------------------

Very thorough idodge
I agree - 1 map only.

I vote 1 map, it takes well over an hour to complete 1 map against a good chopper team. Don't have the time to waste playing 3 hours for something that can be accomplished in 1.

I know in a few maps, the opposing team had a serious altitude advantage on us. From both sides.

I am not insuinuating anything, however, it'd be easay for the other team to say "ready" or "go" while already airborne.

Is there any way there could be a recording requirement?(beyond UAC which apparently only takes blank screenshots)

I am not insuinuating anything, however, it'd be easay for the other team to say "ready" or "go" while already airborne.

I've never encountered this issue before, though I can see how it could happen on certain maps.

One way to handle this would be to have each team fly straight up above their base to a predefined altitude where there is line of sight to the same altitude above the other base. Once each team can see each other they would commence with the normal ready-go sequence.

I just Don't understand why this is on softcore setting's
If you have the match in hardcore be more of a challenge
3rd person view is for girl's oh did I offend some people in here my bad. Just us hardcore players have very little fun playing with the sissy setting's and that would be great to have so we can have real fight's,not 1 1/2 hour's long or whatever.and most battles we have had in the air they stay 1000 miles away cause they r scared ( love to see this heli
2v2 actually get fixed so we are all happy not just satisfy softcore player's

Uh, not sure what you're talking about, phoenix. The rules here are much, much closer to hardcore than they are to normal. The only difference is that 3p view is enabled and there's 100% health.

Even if those two rules were changed to match hardcore, I don't see how it would make the fights any less tedious or convince certain teams to not stay long range.

What would bring fights closer and make them more interesting though, is one of the rules I proposed above:

No lock-on weapons

It would create an entirely new sub-game for the pilots at close range and would encourage them to get close enough to be able to use the rocket pods.

(The rule would ban pilot's heatseekers and gunner's guided missiles)

Played without lock-on missiles in a few scrims before, much more fun and skillful imo.

Originally posted by: idodgebull3ts

I am not insuinuating anything, however, it'd be easay for the other team to say "ready" or "go" while already airborne.

I've never encountered this issue before, though I can see how it could happen on certain maps.

One way to handle this would be to have each team fly straight up above their base to a predefined altitude where there is line of sight to the same altitude above the other base. Once each team can see each other they would commence with the normal ready-go sequence.

It's impossible to see the other team at takeoff on Noshahr Canals.

Hmm... Well outside of forcing each team to record or outright removing Noshahr from the maplist I can only think of one solution, although I don't think it would be feasible to use it.

It would entail the use of a custom server admin tool to disallow spawns before each team says Ready (by killing people if they spawned in before this).

It would then give a 10 second countdown timer until the teams were allowed to spawn. After the first player spawns in, if the other team does not spawn in within another 10 seconds both teams get killed and the round is restarted.

It could actually be used to enforce some of the other rules as well, however given that inevitably some teams will be using different admin tools already, i.e. procon, warcon, etc. I don't think it would be possible to actually put something like this into effect.

I suggest removing Noshahr from the maplist as the best alternative to forcing each team to record, as some people would be hindered by the recording requirement and the upload process and the process of actually looking through the footage to look for things like this would be tedious.

Although if someone can think of a better solution I'd be all for it.