Hardcore League?

Is this expected to appear in the future or no?
Post edited by ^Jagged at 12/21/2010 6:16:26 PM

it failed miserably in regular bc2. i doubt it will pick up for vietnam.

*Sigh* :/
Post edited by [Grenade] at 12/22/2010 2:46:14 AM

why bother with hardcore? u die easy enough in nam as it is.

Originally posted by: .c.recon
why bother with hardcore? u die easy enough in nam as it is.

Ya, totally agree. I can drop people with literly 2 bullets in nam......

Guess because some people need that advantage.

Originally posted by: DoubleD_

Originally posted by: .c.recon
why bother with hardcore? u die easy enough in nam as it is.

Ya, totally agree. I can drop people with literly 2 bullets in nam......

Guess because some people need that advantage.

An advantage would be if you could drop someone easier than they could drop you. Which isn't the case is it. It's just as easy for an individual to kill you as it is for you to kill them... Your logic is flawed.

except it has been proven that the top teams in games the ones that can aim better and are better dont play hardcore because it is too easy for them and there is no challenge to it. There is a reason why players that play regular can go to hardcore and put up huge numbers.

i understand some people want "realistic" gameplay, but trying to say its more skillful to play hardcore over regular is just a lie that hardcore fanboys dont and wont admit. It is more skill to be able to track your target and hit him more times in regular mode than it is to accidently hit him once in the toe in hardcore.


trying to be "logical" and prove that hardcore isnt some sort of "advantage" is a joke because it is a mode that basically gives someone props for shooting first. The problem comes into play when the person shooting first all they do is spray and pray and still kill really well at long ranges. You should have to actually aim in the game to get a kill. Hardcore does not promote that but rather promotes random luck for the majority of players.

Look at the people who promote hardcore alot. A majority from my experience in gaming have said that they hate how long it takes to kill someone in regular mode. Well if thats not an excuse to make the game easier and more dumbed down then i don't know what is.

I'm not trying to say hardcore players are terrible players, I am however saying that hardcore players when playing against regular mode players are not as good.

I'm all for having your own league however so good luck to you.. I just am slightly annoyed that hardcore players being a very NICHE group of players as dictated by how small their ladders always are, always seem to want to rip the community in two rather than combine the communities and make gaming stronger for that game.

Split communities tend to help games die rather than prosper.

off to work. lates.. enjoy my TL : DR..
Post edited by -Nebulous- at 12/23/2010 4:10:19 PM

We scrimmed a hardcore team once

They complained when we were smashing them in regular mode that they would be doing better if it wasnt "easy mode"

We played them a couple rounds of hardcore so they could "get revenge"
They got spawncamped in about a minute

As they ragequit the one guy at least had the humilty to say "I guess we just suck"

The thing hardcore players dont get is that they will lose worse in hardcore than they would in regular

I have nothing against hardcore teams/players but if they try pitch the "more skill" angle - its a myth

The bottom line is that no fps game ever has had a bigger following in hardcore than regular - and id venture to say that it never will
Post edited by rivaL Cartel at 12/23/2010 4:55:36 PM

my man now thats a statment. I said this from the begining but I guess if Rival says it mabe people will listen.

its human nature not to want to admit that you failed at something. people just dont want to tell others that they just arent good so excuses come out.

"this guy cheats"
"noob weapon"
"random excuse"
"we'd rape you in hardcore"

etc. etc.

no worries though. cartel and I aren't arguing with the hardcore people, just explaining why we are right.

ENJOY!

FPS theory

- anything you did to kill me is cheap
- anything I did to kill you is skill

Perspective just depends on who respawns

cartel.. tell panda i miss our talks on xfire.. he needs to get on more.. withdrawals man.. withdrawals.

Hes a wow nerd again along with half our guys

The rest are scattered around different games
BF3 or Planetside Next are the games we are looking at down the road

Hardcore- no...

WTF HOLY SHIT!?!? ANOTHER PLANETSIDE IS COMING OUT!?@#?!@#

I played the first one since launch and that game was so sick i am going to look this shit up right now.

But yea since cataclysm came out nerds are all over that shit, we lost one guy indefinitely... game is the devil...

Originally posted by: rivaL Cartel
BF3 or Planetside Next are the games we are looking at down the road

Mines are BF3 too and Brink.

People still care enough about this game to argue? Oh man

Planetside was such an epic games, at least till they released Core Combat and BFR's.

lmao at all the guys here bashing hardcore and saying how they hate it when someone says its easier. Then bitch about community ripped apart.


1) Not one post on here from a hardcore fanboy talking about how its harder or easier. One guy dropped a line about how hed like a hardcore server and you softcore fanboys jumped all over the thread and started talking about how you know all about hardcore players and such. It was a simple post about wanting a ladder for the gametype he prefers but you baboons got who LOVE softcore could not take it. Why are you baboons even in this thread. Why not simply promote the gametype you prefer without bashing others peoples likes or dislikes.

Baboons.

probably because we've been on these forums longer than you and seen how "hardcore" players think and have read what they have to say time and time again.

That single players viewpoint might not be exactly what the majority think, but its definately not far off im sure.

sounds like ur mad that someone pointed out the obvious and it struck a nerve.

/tissue

Originally posted by: -Nebulous-
probably because we've been on these forums longer than you and seen how "hardcore" players think and have read what they have to say time and time again.

That single players viewpoint might not be exactly what the majority think, but its definately not far off im sure.

sounds like ur mad that someone pointed out the obvious and it struck a nerve.

/tissue

thats funny because ive been here since 2002 and you only since 2004, but hey keep posting if it makes you feel better about your position.
Post edited by *sMoKeDoG* at 12/28/2010 5:14:39 PM

posting in twl forums is pointless. all people do here is troll. best place to ask is the leadership forums. might get more answers and support, not the game type i like is better.

Originally posted by: *sMoKeDoG*

Originally posted by: -Nebulous-
probably because we've been on these forums longer than you and seen how "hardcore" players think and have read what they have to say time and time again.

That single players viewpoint might not be exactly what the majority think, but its definately not far off im sure.

sounds like ur mad that someone pointed out the obvious and it struck a nerve.

/tissue

thats funny because ive been here since 2002 and you only since 2004, but hey keep posting if it makes you feel better about your position.

Want to shake my sweaty hand?

because Nebulous is my only name ive ever gamed under!!!


bad.

I like Hardcore Mode, it's all I play. Make all comp hardcore mode!

Originally posted by: *sMoKeDoG*

Originally posted by: -Nebulous-
probably because we've been on these forums longer than you and seen how "hardcore" players think and have read what they have to say time and time again.

That single players viewpoint might not be exactly what the majority think, but its definately not far off im sure.

sounds like ur mad that someone pointed out the obvious and it struck a nerve.

/tissue

thats funny because ive been here since 2002 and you only since 2004, but hey keep posting if it makes you feel better about your position.

Considering hardcore wasn't even an option in ANY Battlefield game until March 2010 how is ANYONE'S join date here relevant.

Although many pubbers might prefer hardcore, if you're a decent Battlefield player neither gametype should scare you. Although some would disagree, I wouldn't feel any different about my abilities, or lack thereof, playing a hardcore match versus a regular match

......and don't even throw the CoD hardcore discussion into the mix. Different game, different hardcore.

The differences between hardcore and softcore go deeper than just how easy it is to kill someone.

Softcore has:
3d spotting
kill cam
crosshairs
auto regenning health
mini-map

All of these elements give the softcore player a distinct advantage over the hardcore player. Without intending to be inflammatory, these elements are crutches. Without these elements, the softcore player is commonly less likely to do well on a map. That isn't to say that all softcore players do worse, but if you eliminate those features, many softcore players immediately do worse.

Being able to hit your target reliably more than once or twice does take more practice. This is certainly a point in favor of the softcore argument. However, when coupled with the other "benefits" of playing on a softcore server, that one positive element is overshadowed by the other negative elements.

First, the 3D spotting feature amounts to little more than a wall hack. A pretty little floating indicator of where the enemy is means the softcore player doesn't have to learn how to find the enemy themselves. Think about actual wall hacks and how much of an advantage they would give someone. 3D spotting is much the same thing, albeit slightly less automatic.

Next, the kill cam feature completely removes the value of a tactical position advantage. Granted, it also helps to limit campers, but a good hardcore player either knows where the campers hide, or can spot them with a little effort. Pointing out who killed you and where they are basically gives the softcore player who can't figure out where they are being shot from a boost.

Crosshairs on the screen are another element that gives an advantage to the softcore player because they can more easily run around with their VSS and spray and pray from the hip. It requires more patience and skill to walk around with your weapon shouldered to aim accurately and move intelligently. How often do you hear about people complaining that someone has a dot on their screen, or some crosshair overlay (either hardcore BF:BC2 or other games that don't have an integrated crosshair)? This is the same thing. Don't need a dot on your screen, the game gives you one.

Automatic health regeneration is another advantage to the softcore player because it is more likely that a quick sprint across an open area will result in some damage but not death (because of the increased health and perceived reduced weapon damage), so hiding in a corner until your health just magically returns essentially negates the damage altogether (or in large part). It also minimizes the need for a medic, and thus minimizes the importance of teamwork. Automatic health regeneration favors the lone wolf player who is more interested in his own score than that of the team.

The mini-map isn't a much of an advantage as the other elements are, but it still means that players require less overall awareness of their surroundings.

The reduced health (and perceived higher weapon damage) of hardcore is one element that most softcore players tend to focus on when claiming that hardcore isn't really harder, but they also tend to forget all the other advantages they have from playing softcore.

And for the record, I play almost exclusively on hardcore servers and I am consistently among the top scoring players on my team and on the server as a whole. When I go to softcore servers, I have been kicked for "cheating". I play hardcore because in my opinion, the harder part of the game is staying alive, when one shot kills.

Take a softcore server, and turn off all the features listed above, and only set the health higher, and I think you'll find that softcore players won't like it, and won't do as well.

That's a great essay and all.

But, in my experience, every time a "Softcore" team goes up against an HC team. In Vanilla or HC mode, the HC team loses.

The end.

ur essay works for pub players who suck in general anyways.


your "negatives" list is all false because you are talking to players who play competitive. Pub play means jack squat.

Normal bc2 comp has no 3d spotting and no kill cam. The only real differences are crosshair, the damage differences, and health regen.

My problem is that i can't intelligently get alongside any hardcore player when I can go into a server and get a guy to like 2% hp from a foot shot or kill a guy in two shots to the feet. There is a difference between realistic and "i can't aim plz give me a mode that doesnt require it".

minimap means nothing to me or any comp player as most comp players have calls for spots on the map of importance(haha C1 C2 C3 proof)

The crosshair issue however is SOO easy to get around. Do you think people dont know how to get around that issue? brb.. getting a tiny piece of tape for my screen. GG, issue gone.

Comparing pub play of hardcore and normal doesnt work because the competitive community doesnt use most of the "negatives" you claim make softcore better due to a lack of them. It just splits the community and helps the game die.

I could understand if you didnt like the gamemode like conquest because that is the same no matter the play. But you hardcore players are helping pc gaming be split by requiring extra work to create hardcore modes(issues arise in almost every game due to this) but also all the teams that hardcore mode has that could be apart of the same community as regular mode.

Its hard to convince any hardcore player differently as from looking at the past and the teams there has never been a hardcore team that has a big name in gaming(this leads me to believe 98% of hardcore teams are mostly pubstars anyways).

Its nice that you like the mode, but you aren't informed at all and have numerous flaws in your arguements between the two when talking to a competitive community.

Originally posted by: -Nebulous-
ur essay works for pub players who suck in general anyways.


your "negatives" list is all false because you are talking to players who play competitive. Pub play means jack squat.

Normal bc2 comp has no 3d spotting and no kill cam. The only real differences are crosshair, the damage differences, and health regen.

My problem is that i can't intelligently get alongside any hardcore player when I can go into a server and get a guy to like 2% hp from a foot shot or kill a guy in two shots to the feet. There is a difference between realistic and "i can't aim plz give me a mode that doesnt require it".

minimap means nothing to me or any comp player as most comp players have calls for spots on the map of importance(haha C1 C2 C3 proof)

The crosshair issue however is SOO easy to get around. Do you think people dont know how to get around that issue? brb.. getting a tiny piece of tape for my screen. GG, issue gone.

Comparing pub play of hardcore and normal doesnt work because the competitive community doesnt use most of the "negatives" you claim make softcore better due to a lack of them. It just splits the community and helps the game die.

I could understand if you didnt like the gamemode like conquest because that is the same no matter the play. But you hardcore players are helping pc gaming be split by requiring extra work to create hardcore modes(issues arise in almost every game due to this) but also all the teams that hardcore mode has that could be apart of the same community as regular mode.

Its hard to convince any hardcore player differently as from looking at the past and the teams there has never been a hardcore team that has a big name in gaming(this leads me to believe 98% of hardcore teams are mostly pubstars anyways).

Its nice that you like the mode, but you aren't informed at all and have numerous flaws in your arguements between the two when talking to a competitive community.

the only thing I got from this is that you have a tiny piece of tape

Originally posted by: .c.recon
That's a great essay and all.

But, in my experience, every time a "Softcore" team goes up against an HC team. In Vanilla or HC mode, the HC team loses.

The end.

In my experience, every time I go up against softcore players, they end up complaining that I'm hacking.

That doesn't invalidate the points. Still not seeing anyone refuting the points.

Originally posted by: -Nebulous-

You're proving the point. If having a piece of tape on your monitor gives you an advantage, then having a crosshair on the screen does too.

As for the rest of your well thought out response, you are implying that the ability to aim is the defining factor in how hard one mode is versus the other, but then you complain that because someone is able to aim faster and get off the first shot, they must suck.

Aiming consistently is required for softcore. Aiming faster is required for hardcore.

The mini-map benefit isn't about knowing the lay of the map, it's about being able to see an overhead location of all the enemies in the area. If you were more aware of your surroundings, you wouldn't need that.

As for the "hardcore" players splitting the community, I would suggest that the softcore players split the community just as much. You want softcore mode to be the default, making it "more work" to develop a hardcore mode. How about making hardcore the default mode, then there won't be any more work?

Maybe there aren't any competitive hardcore teams because all the games out there are softcore.

You still haven't shown how I'm "not informed at all" or pointed out the "numerous flaws in my arguments". Looking at the things I detailed, show me one flaw in any of them.

To argue one point back.

You said maybe the "softcore" people are splitting the community.

Ok, well, HC mode as existed since day one. A vast majority of the players play "Softcore".

HC is the fringe group. Therefore, YOU are splintering the community because you're the minority.

If the "splintering of the community" argument is even a valid one. Which I'm not saying is or isn't.

i already pointed them out.

you talk about 3d spotting(doesnt exist in competitive normal mode)

you talk about kill cam(doesnt exist in competitive normal mode)

The players that play the game stock (what games have been since gaming started, hardcore came about because - now listen closely here - a group of people wanted it realistic in gameplay(ie.. they wanted people to die faster, i know you wont admit to this but the vast majority of hardcore players complain about people not dying in normal mode and then switch to hardcore)

your arguement about softcore being about who shoots first is not valid as it promotes spraying and praying. NOT aiming. Skill should be about who can shoot first AND aim better. Not one or the other.

for instance, in vietnam every building can be spammed through. Hardcore would promote me just shooting at every building til I get a tag.. that 1 tag.. no matter WHAT bodypart i just hit brings the guy down to like 2% hp. a slight breeze takes the rest of his health away.

Realistic to a point maybe.. but lets not pretend why a majority of hardcore plays that mode. They may think its realistic, but they also dont want to play against softcore because its not as easy as hardcore. If it was as easy, they wouldn't have switched to hardcore.

i'll give you that some people like the realistic no sights etc.. but honestly its a VERY weak argument.

Tape on the monitor invalidates the no crosshair argument completely and if any decent team played hardcore, I guarantee you its what they would do.

The minimap again you are implying that people use it for navigation and intel.. there is no 3d spotting and when we play the minimap does NOT dictate movement or comms. Saying it is a crutch doesnt really work because with it or without it, I'm still able to tell you exactly where a player is based on the call someone made over vent/ts3/mumble..

The ONLY thing a compass MAY be good for is using it as a N,W,S,E call if thats what you use. Since we don't use that and most comp teams didnt in bc2(mainly because there was no NSWE on the compass) that point is also invalid.

I know its a childish thing to say, but normal mode has been there since the beginning and was always first. Hardcore split the community because you are the minority and the addition to the game not the basis for the game. When you set up a server, did you have to change a setting to make your server hardcore? that in itself shows how the game was supposed to be played and that hardcore was just an afterthought.

Gaming has been split because of the hardcore/softcore issue when the only issue that should seperate it is gametype(Rush, conquest, tdm).

I would venture to bet if we turned off all the aspects that you claim give advantages and make normal(softcore) easier, it still wouldnt change the outcome of a match between lets say IMO the 3 top teams of normal mode(rival, epsilon, and us) vs the 3 top teams of hardcore(no clue who you are)

p.s. just because you get hack accusations from pubstars doesnt mean you'd be of any consequence in competitive softcore. The average pubstar for both hardcore/softcore is semi-retarded at best. Ask any top player how many times they've been kicked/banned/accused of hacking in pubs and you'll get the same response.
Post edited by -Nebulous- at 1/13/2011 6:03:02 PM

Hardcore will never be the main mode of choice for pubbers or competitve players...get over it - end of thread

Originally posted by: Spetsdod

Originally posted by: .c.recon
That's a great essay and all.

But, in my experience, every time a "Softcore" team goes up against an HC team. In Vanilla or HC mode, the HC team loses.

The end.

In my experience, every time I go up against softcore players, they end up complaining that I'm hacking.

Thanks for the laugh

Holy essays batman.

Originally posted by: rivaL panda
Holy essays batman.

Actually,. to properly appriciate Batman.....

Holy War and Peace Batman, that is one long ass essay.

I was just asking if there was going to be a hardcore league. There is no reason or need for you softcore/hardcore fanboys to start flaming and blaming each other for absurd reasons, go make your own thread for it.

I like both modes of the game, but for REALISM hardcore ( in my opinion) wins hands down, the game was touted as the most REALISTIC FPS ever. Realistically if you were to hit someone in the arm, hand, foot or leg with an M95 with magnum ammo he is not going to keep running or turn and shoot you, because the aforementioned body parts no longer exist, this is what the majority of HC players like about it.

Softcore requires better skills but lacks a little parity, using the M95 senario again usually only a clean headshot will do campared to one slash with the knife or that stupid repair tool which from any angle will kill. I agree that more skill is needed in SC to get that one shot kill and the top players dont have a problem with this and the lesser ones do cause they tend to run out of ammo, in comp almost everyone runs medic to eliviate this problem and have revive available, where the HC diehards tend to favour the other kits.

So HC for realism and SC for skill.

Why can't there be seperate competitions for both ? Who cares which one is superior as long as people are enjoying what they're playing, yes you would have two factions (so what, you have it in football and baseball don't you ?), the winners of each ladder could play-off in a BFBC2 Superbowl or the like, would this not bring us all a little closer together, or is it all too hard ?

The object of battle is to kill and not be killed, i would rather have a 5/0 kill count than 20/15.

Just my two cents worth, feel free to shoot me down !

Hmmmm Nebulous.......didnt someone get banned for calling "a gook a gook" in a Viet game ? Isn't that like calling the average pubstar semi-retarded ?
Post edited by Ghost Rider 88 at 1/21/2011 11:24:17 AM

Originally posted by: Ghost Rider 88
the game was touted as the most REALISTIC FPS ever

Lol, it was??

Originally posted by: Ghost Rider 88
Why can't there be seperate competitions for both ? Who cares which one is superior as long as people are enjoying what they're playing, yes you would have two factions (so what, you have it in football and baseball don't you ?

Not enough people.

Originally posted by: Ghost Rider 88
Isn't that like calling the average pubstar semi-retarded?

Well shit, if it walks like a duck...