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Season 4 - New Tiebreaker Scheme

Historical capture recovered from the Wayback Machine · captured 2005-03-09 · 24 posts
RPI Description

Disclaimer: I’ve been told that I write too much, and write at too complex a level. I believe in giving people all the information they could want so they’re not left second-guessing something that’s an omission rather than a mistake. We’ll handle all of the mechanics – read only if you care about the gory details of our new tiebreaker system /disclaimer

For the upcoming season, TWL is planning to change their tiebreaker system to include an RPI-like component. This will hopefully partition teams somewhat better than in the past, where round differential and number of forfeits was an indirect measure of strength of schedule. The old tiebreaker scheme was:

1. Points
2. Wins
3. Head to Head
4. Round-Win Differential
5. Least Number of Forfeit Wins (Strength of Schedule)
6. Extra Head-to-Head match

The new scheme will be:

1. Points
2. Wins
3. If only two teams are tied, Head-to-Head if applicable. If more than two teams are tied, RPI score.
4. If only two teams are tied, RPI score. If more than two teams are tied, Head-to-Head*
5. Round-Win Differential
6. Extra Head-to-Head match

*Head-to-head, when more than two teams are tied, is a special case. If, after RPI ranking you are directly one rank below a team that you have beaten, you will be ranked above them. If you are more than one rank below a team that you have beaten, your head-to-head win will not apply.

Theoretically, the RPI score will not allow for too many ties. It is a very loose version of the college basketball function, and includes no exceptions for things like “quality wins.” The basic RPI formula is:

The Formula

RPI = 0.25*(your win%) + 0.5*(your opp. win% excluding matches with you) + 0.25*(your opp.’s opp win%)

The idea of Opponent’s win% excluding matches with you is to divorce it from your own winning percentage to prevent double counting. It means that if you beat a 3-4 team, their contribution to your Opp. Win% stat is 3-3 (since they were 3-3 in all matches except with you), which is 0.500. This similarly carries over to Opponent’s Opponents’ Win%.

There are five difficulties which come up on our format that the NCAA doesn’t have to worry about. These difficulties, and how we address them, are:

- Low sample number: A 30 game season does better statistics than an 8 game season. This system was attempted during Season 2, and it was found to be a fairly reasonable system worth a shot here.
- Forfeits: Since only win percentage is counted, should a forfeit win be equated the same as a real win. We are ruling that forfeits do count in building a team’s win/loss percentage, but the team who gets the forfeit gets no benefit in the Opp. Win% metric, since their forfeit win is automatically subtracted out. The only way it really affects statistics is when a team that “should” have won the match loses (or vice versa), and with roughly 50 – 60 matches to compensate we expect it won’t have much effect.
- Draws: Right now, these functionally count as losses in terms of winning percentage. This is one we’re still shaky on – we could make it that draws just aren’t counted in terms of total games played for counting win/loss.
- Teams dropping league: All wins will count for your own winning percentage, but teams that do not play at least 4 games in the league will not be counted towards the other two stats (Opp. Win% and Opp’s Opp Win%). Some opinions were voiced early on about 3 or 5 games, so I stuck with 4 as the middle ground. This too is open to debate.
- Teams playing the same team twice: This is most often just a problem with the West Coasters. Technically, neither of your matches against a team should count against the Opp. Win% stat, meaning that if you beat a 3-4 team twice, they should be counted as 3-2 in BOTH cases for the Opp. Win% stat. Really, this is only a problem with the automatic Excel sheet, which isn’t smart enough to handle that, and will be handled manually throughout the season.

The Excel Calculation Sheet

The sheet can be found as “RPI Demo Sheet.xls” in the Enemy Territory Downloads section of the Teamwarfare website. It only covers through Week 7 as it was written primarily to demonstrate the idea to the admins at the time. This sheet includes five worksheets all with a separate purpose:

- “Team Names & IDs” just puts teams into a simple numerical format for lookup functions. Referencing a number is better than possibly misspelling a name and messing with search functions.
- “Schedule Results” is where the weekly results are recorded. Cells in yellow are for manual entry and in blue are for automatic calculation.
- “Team & Opp Wins” is for summarizing all of the “total” statistics from the “Schedule Results” page for simplicity putting it in one contiguous table.
- “RPI” actually generates the RPI rating based on the stats from “Team & Opp Wins”
- “Sorted” was a manual copy and sort of the key stats from “RPI” - just a way for people to see how it broke up the teams to show how the tiebreakers would work. Thankfully, there were no ties, though I’m sure Raiders Coven would have had something to say about finishing 0.0001 points behind t&a on the basis of the Draws rule above.

The idea would be that we would host this sheet throughout the season on ET-Center, or make it otherwise publicly available, so that teams could check to make sure that the stats were recorded correctly, and so that teams could follow the stat and keep track of their relative position.

Bear in mind that this sheet was written pretty much in one pass and was not directly cross-checked for errors. I believe I solved the main ones, but wouldn’t assert that it’s perfect yet. It’s more a proof-of-concept sheet, which is admittedly some pretty dense Excel. Any help in correcting errors would of course be appreciated, but I admittedly have an Excel style all my own thanks to a previous boss.
Post edited by AlmightyTDawg at 9/16/2004 11:39:44 PM
how bout u admins just break the ties and us nubs who falied english will just accept where u put us?
Originally posted by: AlmightyTDawg
We’ll handle all of the mechanics – read only if you care about the gory details of our new tiebreaker system

Still, it's important to have things fully out in the open to avoid hearing the inevitable conspiracy-theory whines later on.
Post edited by AlmightyTDawg at 9/16/2004 11:40:29 PM
Originally posted by: AlmightyTDawg
Originally posted by: AlmightyTDawg
We’ll handle all of the mechanics – read only if you care about the gory details of our new tiebreaker system


I missed that part...
If things are all tied up just have a knife fight to decide it. Gets rid of all the extra work.
Originally posted by: Nem-
If things are all tied up just have a knife fight to decide it. Gets rid of all the extra work.

You see, TDawg LIKES extra work.

Durinia
ET Competition Manager - ET Ladders & ET Fortress
good thing cuz none of us lazy gamers wanna do work, especially extra
Oh yeah i see..lol
That's Tdawg for you. Though I think his level of english has dropped just so he could write that post and have most people understand it.
Two points of clarification/adjustment:

Head-to-head when more than two teams are tied. The head-to-head "reordering" will work from the bottom up, and teams will only be adjusted one place maximum as a result (no recursion). Thus, if three teams are tied and the RPI ranking puts Team A in first place, Team B in second place, and Team C in third place...

Scenario 1 (C beats both A and B, who don't play): C gets ranked above B, but does not climb the latter again because they can only bump once. Thus, it's A-C-B.

Scenario 2 (C beats B, who beats A): C gets ranked above B, starting from the bottom, but B is no longer next to A. Thus, it's A-C-B.

Scenario 3 (C and B both beat A, but don't play each other): B gets ranked above A on h2h. C does not get ranked above A because A has already been dropped one rung. Hence, B-A-C.

The second issue is how draws are being handled. They're going to be treated as half wins in calculating win percentage, so it's not as bad as a loss.
what does RPI stand for?
I remember this first time he showed me this last season. Havent been able to see through my left eye since.






In all seriousness, tdawg put a lot of work into this and I think it is a great system of breaking seeding ties.

ND80
TeamWarfare Competition Director for Enemy Territory, RTCW, Counter Strike, Urban Terror, Madden 2005, Dawn of War, Rome:Total War
Originally posted by: ND80
I remember this first time he showed me this last season. Havent been able to see through my left eye since.

In all seriousness, tdawg put a lot of work into this and I think it is a great system of breaking seeding ties.


I think what he meant to say is that the first time he saw it, he knew how much work I put into it. And in all seriousness, he hasn't been able to see through his left eye since.
I have a question.

Lets say a team finishes 5-2 and another team finished 5-3 the 5-3 team has a worse record but more points cause they played in one extra game...the team thats 5-2 wont make the playoffs as they only have 17 points and the 5-3 has 18?

Is there a way that this can be fixed? It seems slightly unfair?

The League Points thing has always been a hallmark of our league, and I just can't bring myself to think of it as "unfair" per se. There were teams who didn't make playoffs with perfect or near-perfect records in Season 1 simply from joining late.

I think depending on the circumstances, each case-by-case situation could get labeled fair or unfair, but largely it's a consistent scheme we've stuck with. That losses mean something more than no-shows or no-plays was a goal of ours awhile ago.
Originally posted by: Philth
I have a question.

Lets say a team finishes 5-2 and another team finished 5-3 the 5-3 team has a worse record but more points cause they played in one extra game...the team thats 5-2 wont make the playoffs as they only have 17 points and the 5-3 has 18?

Is there a way that this can be fixed? It seems slightly unfair?



I'm sorry but if a team has played 1 week more they have the right to play over the 5-2 team.

1.The team joined when they were supposed to.
2.That extra week you would have had no idea if the 5-2 team would lost.

Just my opinion
___________________________________________________________
**It's not what you say it's how you say it!**
but a loss is worth 1 point.

Therefore it would be a tie and go into the whole tie breaker scheme.

anyways...we signed up maybe a day late...im n ot arguing im just seeing if something can be done about it thereotically



am i the only one who cant understand this at all?!?!?
I use to understand it, but trust me when I say it works out. It's how college teams rank for ties.


Check the downloads section for the xls sheet.
Post edited by Pagan at 11/10/2004 3:36:47 PM

-----------------------------
:: ^WJ|Pagan
I should have a sheet out with this season through week 5 by the weekend. I've been hit over the past five or six days and through the end of the week with mostly unexpected personal issues. To all those trying to find me in that time with little success, my apologies.

As for understanding it or not, send me a pm or email with where you are on it and what you are or aren't getting. If it's a basic idea question, it should be pretty easy. If it's an excel question, hit me up with the formula that's bakin' yer noodle.
Originally posted by: orangeh
am i the only one who cant understand this at all?!?!?


OMG Orangeh...just say it works. Makes pretty good sense to me (like 88%)
i figured out why i dont get it. RPI was never defined
Why is orangeh on timeout? :/
Originally posted by: Nem-
If things are all tied up just have a knife fight to decide it. Gets rid of all the extra work.

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