T2 casters. You suck.

Why the fuk would u give the pw word out to random ppl to join a match? ZP was kicked because at another time he decided he wanted the chicago server we were practicing infor 3 hrs. He came in and kicked ppl.


I should be able to say who is allowed to cast/obs as a capt. I can tell you all that in the begining of the match it was a distraction. Having to kick ppl and watch obs as ppl just join up to distract or poss kick our players really fuked up our start.

This all should be arranged ahead of time and done with a lil more respect to the players that are actually playing.


Tho i didnt kick everyone once zp joined again to distract our team just by joining...And he knew it would. I would have kicked them if i was faster than cookie.

It was fukin bullshit the way that went down and was a distraction with 14 players trying to get coordinated.

And to clearify i told our team to pass the flag to the hof on woody. Its what i did when i got the 1st cap for our team and its what i tried on my HO cap. I didnt wanna bounce off him and i thru the flag on the stand where it should of been.

Nice try tho.



g

Distraction of your own making bro. If you had the self control to ignore who was in obs, you wouldn't have had an issue.

Go fuk yourself nerdboy. I didnt know they had black nerds.



g

Lets summarize the thread in a TLDR sentence:

Gunther mad because him failing at trying to spite me ended up distracting him.

It's like being mad at someone because you tried to hit them with a bat, having them dodge, and falling down the stairs as a result.

ZP is in the wrong here.

NO caster is more important than the game they are casting.

ZP had an ego trip and 28 poeple playing a match were distracted while 50+ had to pay the price by not getting to watch the cast.

Check your ego ZP. You ARE NOT more important than the matches being played.

We are all upset about what happened and have had numerous discussions about the matter.

If you listen to the cast, I was blind-sided by a surge of unplanned contributors, and I came up with a quick compromise: I specifically said the others could "come on, give their predictions, give an interview, and then get back off for the cast." My plan was not followed, and I was too nice to say "No" when it came time to set boundaries. I've learned my lesson.

I had no intention of giving them the password to the server, and I honestly don't know how that happened. I did not give it to them, but I did fail to say "No." For that I am sorry. I strongly hinted that ZP should not join and antagonize you after he was kicked the first time, and he ignored me. I criticized his decision after the cast.

Craig's statement was misconstrued; the password was not given out intentionally to random people afterward. That was a simple mistake that we also have no intention of repeating. Not ever. I was too discombobulated when I got back into the server to kick the other people who joined, and that would have been just another distraction, so I just grit my teeth.

In general I completely agree that captains should know who's casting and be kept informed. I will incorporate this into my future planning because I do NOT want a repeat of Sunday night's events.

When I joined Craig a few weeks ago, we did everything on the fly, no prior planning. Despite my best efforts to organize the production, however, I did not foresee having to plan for this bizarre scenario.

Please accept all of our apologies.

who the fuck is cyberscrew

Originally posted by: ReDEyE!!
ZP is in the wrong here.

NO caster is more important than the game they are casting.

ZP had an ego trip and 28 poeple playing a match were distracted while 50+ had to pay the price by not getting to watch the cast.

Check your ego ZP. You ARE NOT more important than the matches being played.

This generally misses the point. Gunther caused the distraction himself by trying a pull a "this is my territory, LOL" powertrip. I simply threw it back in his face.

As far as casting goes, if there's no potential conflicts in regards to strat stealing or helping out the other team, then there's zero justifiable reason to deny it.

I do not accept any sort of captain's prerogative, particularly with the nature of how these tournaments should be run.




Post edited by ZProtoss at 11/2/2011 1:14:55 AM

I semi-agree with ZP here

The distraction was of your own making. You could have simply ignored the people in obs, which were obviously there to cast, but instead your team made a big deal out of it because of personal grudges that you personally have against individual players like ZP.

Once ZP rejoined the server and entered the Super Admin password you immediately had a power trip and had to "win" or "one up" him by kicking everyone that had been casting from the beginning of the map.

It wasn't a big deal at all to have people join observer and cast/watch the match. You made it out to be one, and it's your own fault.


edit

Also if you're paying more attention to the chat and who joins the server than whats actually happening in the game... well its no wonder you ended up losing it for your team by flying 50 meters over the flag stand even though you could've easily corrected yourself and capped.
Post edited by Vaxemous at 11/2/2011 1:30:29 AM

Saying it was gunther's team that made a big deal out of it is also stupid.

Most of his team didn't give a shit/wanted the cast. It was only Gunther and Cookie being retards. Most of Gunthers team (people like Enigma, Bigsex, etc) thought gunther and cookie were dumb fucks also.

I'm sorry but the people who showed up and desired to be included are automatically too biased to comment on this.

The tradition in Tribes has ALWAYS been that casters are a luxury and everything must be cleared with the teams, because casting is not more important than clean competition. The teams deserve utmost respect for their hard work and NO distractions to their play are tolerated coming from ANYONE.

If people can't be respectful then you'll end up stuck having to watch demos.

Originally posted by: cyberscrew
I'm sorry but the people who showed up and desired to be included are automatically too biased to comment on this.

The tradition in Tribes has ALWAYS been that casters are a luxury and everything must be cleared with the teams, because casting is not more important than clean competition. The teams deserve utmost respect for their hard work and NO distractions to their play are tolerated coming from ANYONE.

If people can't be respectful then you'll end up stuck having to watch demos.

Like stated above, the only reason there was a problem with the cast and people joining was because of personal grudes that Gunther has against individual players - for whatever reason.

Also thats stupid. If it were up to me every single match would be casted. If the usual people weren't able to do so, then I'm sure someone would volunteer. The only reason it's a luxury is because Craig is fucking awesome. If there were more of him around then maybe we could actually cast every single match.

Crying about people joining observer is stupid and lol at the people that did so

Also, I liked the cast and liked being there
Don't know what exactly went so wrong with it in your eyes.

It's really easy to say "the distraction I caused wasn't really a distraction, you are making a big deal out of nothing" when you aren't the one competing.

Mental state is a huge factor in organized competitions of all types, and plenty of pro-gamers (read: people paid to play video games on TV) report in interviews about having their mental state destroyed by random factors beyond their control if they are nervous or inexperienced. In the interest of making sure the competition goes forward in the best possible manner, Tribes casters have ALWAYS deferred to team captains and their teams.

In other words, what you are saying is: "the players/captain should have controlled their mind and not gotten distracted by what I was doing, it's their fault" - the reality is they shouldn't HAVE to deal with yet another distraction while they are already under a lot of pressure. That's not what they signed up to do when they joined the competition. It wasn't part of the deal. Thus, good casters do their utmost to be as unobtrusive as possible.
Post edited by cyberscrew at 11/2/2011 1:54:23 AM

im sorry to say but gunthers a bigger bitch then cirrus. He should have no opinion wether a match is casted or not. If he has a problem with it go play goons faggot. We got a cast on turtles the match was over we swaped theres a small community left and we do like to watch the teams vs teams while we laugh at the mistakes on irc. so bitches like gunther can stfu and go learn to cap in goon

If you read the OP and pay attention, you can clearly sense that Gunther felt frustrated, because it was difficult to focus on what was important - winning the match - with all of the distractions. He says as much in so many words.

His complaint has nothing to do with his match being casted. Nearly everyone welcomes casts and appreciates what they add to the community surrounding the games we all love.

And yet, all week long on IRC we discussed scripts to block out observer messages, because people often choke when they know other people are watching. Players know this without even being in a game. They simply know that if they are playing an official match and suddenly observer messages appear, it will distract them and mess with their mental state. The disruption of this debacle was ten times worse than that.

THERE WAS TOO MANY PEOPLE CASTING AND TRYING TO JOIN THE SERVER BUT IT WAS AN EPIC MATCH AND WE WERE ALL EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN IT BEING CASTED

THAT SAID, EVERYTHING WAS COOL UNTIL SOMEONE KICKED EVERYONE - THATS WHERE THE DRAMA STARTED. BEFORE THAT IT WAS EXCITEMENT AND ANTICIPATION

GUNTHER, WE WISH YOU WOULDA CAPPED THAT, BUT TOSSING IS USUALLY THE SAFER BET, UNLESS YOU MISS - WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE

GGS BOTH TEAMS


WATCH THE VIDEO OF COCKS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJCnMJvV60
IT'LL GET YOU PUMPED UP FOR THIS WEEKEND
Post edited by LOLCAPS at 11/2/2011 2:54:27 AM

Is it true that TWL only exists because OGL was being faggots about casting?

if you didn't want them to join the cast, why not password the vent channel?

Originally posted by: cyberscrew
Tribes casters have ALWAYS deferred to team captains and their teams.

You really need to stop talking as if you're somehow experienced in this area (you're not).

The only reason why people denied casts back in the day was worries over strategy related concerns, or casters who might be taking and distributing demos later on. Teams were INCREDIBLY secretive with strategies, placements, and so forth. That is the ONLY reason why captains had discretion on casts.

In this case, there was zero strategy related concerns at hand. As neither of the two teams playing will ever be playing the maps played last night ever again with those rosters. Therefore, there was zero reason to deny any sort of casting activities.

Basically, casting back in the day had much more to do with trust on the casters that they weren't going to to create an easily distributable blueprint that other teams could use against you later on. Nothing more.

So really, you need to stop with the bullshit of, "OH TRIBES CAPTAINS ALWAYS COULD DENY CASTS, LONG STANDING TRADITION" - the logic simply doesn't fly in this scenario.

I'm not going to comment specifically on the events surrounding the casting of this map. I was not present at the time (having prepared my auto-recording system to start right before MissionStart, and left for about half an hour), and I don't know precisely what circumstances led up to the kicks.

However, it would be nice if people would avoid kicking (or banning) the account (Captain Picard) I use to record the demos for data analysis. The data analysis is the only thing I'm asking in return for the time I spend setting up tags, assisting captains/players, and other tasks related to T2.

Since none of the prior screw-ups by others has prevented me from getting demos, I've been reasonably nice about it in the past. At this point, however, I'm making any future clan tags for teams contingent on my ability to get these demos.

I will not be making available a datarip or heatmap for the match in question.

If it happens again in the next tournament, the team responsible will immediately and permanently forfeit their tags for the duration of the tournament.

Having my system observing a match is, frankly, a miniscule price to pay.

ZP, I'm running out of ways to say "the issue was distractions, not casting." Nobody complained about whether or not the match would be casted. I have hammered the point that captains and teams deserve respect a little too hard, though, by invoking the old days; a time when, you're right, secrecy meant success - and it's derailing from the main point.

Plus, you're mistaken. I do know quite a lot about this, because I was friends with everyone who worked on TsN, WSBN, and IBN. That's just Tribes-casting, though. I also watch tons of other casts and I'm friends with some of the other amateurs.

There is a necessary relationship between casters and players. The fact that you joined after being kicked and used your superadmin password while people begged you not to shows your total disregard for that relationship.

edit: really, your history lesson on OGL and Tribes team secrecy just punctuates the silliness of your view. Saying that secrecy is the "ONLY" possible reason that could be invoked in this situation shows that you can't look at things from someone else's point of view, that you can't see what a disruption you caused.
Post edited by cyberscrew at 11/2/2011 3:15:13 AM

Originally posted by: Thyth
I'm not going to comment specifically on the events surrounding the casting of this map. I was not present at the time (having prepared my auto-recording system to start right before MissionStart, and left for about half an hour), and I don't know precisely what circumstances led up to the kicks.

However, it would be nice if people would avoid kicking (or banning) the account (Captain Picard) I use to record the demos for data analysis. The data analysis is the only thing I'm asking in return for the time I spend setting up tags, assisting captains/players, and other tasks related to T2.

Since none of the prior screw-ups by others has prevented me from getting demos, I've been reasonably nice about it in the past. At this point, however, I'm making any future clan tags for teams contingent on my ability to get these demos.

I will not be making available a datarip or heatmap for the match in question.

If it happens again in the next tournament, the team responsible will immediately and permanently forfeit their tags for the duration of the tournament.

Having my system observing a match is, frankly, a miniscule price to pay.

Best post in thread TBH.

Did gunther really just make this thread over a day later?

Originally posted by: Thyth
Since none of the prior screw-ups by others has prevented me from getting demos, I've been reasonably nice about it in the past. At this point, however, I'm making any future clan tags for teams contingent on my ability to get these demos.

I will not be making available a datarip or heatmap for the match in question.

If it happens again in the next tournament, the team responsible will immediately and permanently forfeit their tags for the duration of the tournament.

Having my system observing a match is, frankly, a miniscule price to pay.

Sorry, not buying it. The reason we 'require' tags for these tournaments is that you've claimed wearing tags fucks with HM2 use. You really sure about this?

DS is already formulating a plan to immediately kick Captain Picard at every opportunity so he doesn't have to wear tags.

But seriously, DS said it best in IRC: the purpose of casting is to let more people experience the competitive match going on. When you interfere with the competitive environment, you ruin that experience for the people who are actually there.

It doesn't matter how dumb anyone thinks Gunther was being; he had reasons for what he was doing and he had the clout, as a captain, to make that decision. I hold the opinion I voiced on the cast; casters had no business being in that match after anyone on the teams voiced an issue with us being there.

I'm also fully with dele in that both teams involved have my utmost apologies. I'd also like to apologize to the community, for my part in the decisions that lead up to disruptions, and especially to Craig, who we stressed out despite him doing us all such a big favor. He's done a great deal to be everyone's friend and I feel terrible for putting him in a situation opposed to someone else in this community.

Originally posted by: Thyth
I'm not going to comment specifically on the events surrounding the casting of this map. I was not present at the time (having prepared my auto-recording system to start right before MissionStart, and left for about half an hour), and I don't know precisely what circumstances led up to the kicks.

However, it would be nice if people would avoid kicking (or banning) the account (Captain Picard) I use to record the demos for data analysis. The data analysis is the only thing I'm asking in return for the time I spend setting up tags, assisting captains/players, and other tasks related to T2.

Since none of the prior screw-ups by others has prevented me from getting demos, I've been reasonably nice about it in the past. At this point, however, I'm making any future clan tags for teams contingent on my ability to get these demos.

I will not be making available a datarip or heatmap for the match in question.

If it happens again in the next tournament, the team responsible will immediately and permanently forfeit their tags for the duration of the tournament.

Having my system observing a match is, frankly, a miniscule price to pay.

sounds like some1 is building an ai

Originally posted by: StormcrowIV

It doesn't matter how dumb anyone thinks Gunther was being; he had reasons for what he was doing.

Not really. His singular reason was,

"I want to fuck with ZP and not let him cast. Because I'm Gunther and this is my territory."

And if I really wanted to fuck with Gunther's match (I didn't), I could have just asked Enigma or several other key players on his team that I'm on good terms with to refuse to play unless Gunther stopped being a gigantic dipshit.

But can you honestly say you would have had an objectively good reason to do so?

From where I'm standing, your actions are just as petty and selfish as Gunther's. The difference is that you abused your invitation to the cast to play your part in all this while Gunther took an understandable and permissible, if controversial, stance based on you kicking his entire team out of a practice server a few weeks ago (some moral high ground there). In an effort you justify by projecting your opinions about casting onto the entire T2 community (most of which was clamoring for you and vax to shut up in IRC at the time), you ended what was an otherwise popular cast, ruined Thyth and Craig's efforts for the evening, and made an utter mockery of what could have been a pretty fine example of T2 casting as organized by dele.

But there you sit content with yourself, no doubt assured that I lack perspective and that you are completely right.

And sure, it's possible that I'm blowing things out of proportion but when you consider the name that HiRez is about to slap onto Tribes and how vocal we've all been about it, you should realize that we've got something to prove.
This is our game and this is our community. Let's make it something we can be proud of.

Originally posted by: StormcrowIV
But can you honestly say you would have had an objectively good reason to do so?

From where I'm standing, your actions are just as petty and selfish as Gunther's. The difference is that you abused your invitation to the cast to play your part in all this while Gunther took an understandable and permissible, if controversial, stance based on you kicking his entire team out of a practice server a few weeks ago (some moral high ground there). In an effort you justify by projecting your opinions about casting onto the entire T2 community (most of which was clamoring for you and vax to shut up in IRC at the time), you ended what was an otherwise popular cast, ruined Thyth and Craig's efforts for the evening, and made an utter mockery of what could have been a pretty fine example of T2 casting as organized by dele.

But there you sit content with yourself, no doubt assured that I lack perspective and that you are completely right.

And sure, it's possible that I'm blowing things out of proportion but when you consider the name that HiRez is about to slap onto Tribes and how vocal we've all been about it, you should realize that we've got something to prove.
This is our game and this is our community. Let's make it something we can be proud of.

You realize the backstory to Gunther's supposed issue with me is just as stupid on Gunther's part right?

Slush banned my entire team from one of the tourney servers. As a result, we could not play on that server that night. We hopped on the server Gunther was on, and explained that we couldn't play on the other server (note: both servers on the same box, same IP, etc) due to Slush. And asked Gunther to move over (nicely I might add).

Enigma and others all told Gunther to move. Something that would have taken literally about 2 minutes to do. Gunther refused saying "No, This is my server. I'm not moving." Even though the server he was on was identical to the other one, with the exception that we didn't get banned by Slush on it.

So after Enigma and others failed to convince Gunther, I was left with no choice but to remove him and his team from the server so we could actually swap to a server we could play on. Because with a match in < 10 mins, the alternative of not being able to play on a server was untenable.

No matter how you slice it, Gunther and how he handles things is an idiot. Once he believes he has power over something, he will act stubborn simply for the sake of acting stubborn because of whatever power he thinks/may have. When you combine that with his overall low intelligence, it's not really a surprise that you end up with situations like this.

You can attempt blaming me all you want, but the reality is that all I did was join the server and go observer. I wasn't the one who wigged out and kicked everyone in observer mode, and my intentions were simply to cast. When it comes to the issue of the cast being ruined, the blame for that goes directly on gunther/cookie. Simple as that.

Edit: Don't put stuff on autoplay. It's annoying as hell.
Post edited by Celios at 11/2/2011 10:49:34 AM

did you just set a video to autoplay

i will fucking end you

You sure speak for a lot of people zp

And great posts stormcrow. Also you did some quality casting as well.
Post edited by BIGSEX at 11/2/2011 6:46:22 AM

ZP, I really didn't appreciate being banned from a server my team and I were practicing on before a match. Your issue was with slush, not us.

Captains have the right and are justified in refusing to have their matches covered by hostile casters. These are casters who try to cast bad light on certain players or teams they dont' like. They can kill a team.



The Real Deal deserves a rematch against Where's Nevares!!!



Post edited by om at 11/2/2011 9:34:30 AM

Can casters be a little more mature next time?

I blame this on Stormcrow / rivergirl.

Andy, you had no business on that server. The match was set to go off fine with craig casting.

Your attempts to pass blame off on Gunther, or exert your e-muscles by saying you'd get our players to refuse to play are laughable.

I kicked everyone, and I'd do it again. Thyth, tough shit you were caught in the crossfire; if you want to take your tags and go home, feel free.

GGs SO crew.

Edit: There were plenty of teams that refused shoutcasts due to personal/team disputes with the individuals/organizations involved.
Post edited by MyDadBeatsMe at 11/2/2011 10:04:25 AM

Originally posted by: ZProtoss

Originally posted by: StormcrowIV
But can you honestly say you would have had an objectively good reason to do so?

From where I'm standing, your actions are just as petty and selfish as Gunther's. The difference is that you abused your invitation to the cast to play your part in all this while Gunther took an understandable and permissible, if controversial, stance based on you kicking his entire team out of a practice server a few weeks ago (some moral high ground there). In an effort you justify by projecting your opinions about casting onto the entire T2 community (most of which was clamoring for you and vax to shut up in IRC at the time), you ended what was an otherwise popular cast, ruined Thyth and Craig's efforts for the evening, and made an utter mockery of what could have been a pretty fine example of T2 casting as organized by dele.

But there you sit content with yourself, no doubt assured that I lack perspective and that you are completely right.

And sure, it's possible that I'm blowing things out of proportion but when you consider the name that HiRez is about to slap onto Tribes and how vocal we've all been about it, you should realize that we've got something to prove.
This is our game and this is our community. Let's make it something we can be proud of.

You realize the backstory to Gunther's supposed issue with me is just as stupid on Gunther's part right?

Slush banned my entire team from one of the tourney servers. As a result, we could not play on that server that night. We hopped on the server Gunther was on, and explained that we couldn't play on the other server (note: both servers on the same box, same IP, etc) due to Slush. And asked Gunther to move over (nicely I might add).

Enigma and others all told Gunther to move. Something that would have taken literally about 2 minutes to do. Gunther refused saying "No, This is my server. I'm not moving." Even though the server he was on was identical to the other one, with the exception that we didn't get banned by Slush on it.

So after Enigma and others failed to convince Gunther, I was left with no choice but to remove him and his team from the server so we could actually swap to a server we could play on. Because with a match in < 10 mins, the alternative of not being able to play on a server was untenable.

No matter how you slice it, Gunther and how he handles things is an idiot. Once he believes he has power over something, he will act stubborn simply for the sake of acting stubborn because of whatever power he thinks/may have. When you combine that with his overall low intelligence, it's not really a surprise that you end up with situations like this.

You can attempt blaming me all you want, but the reality is that all I did was join the server and go observer. I wasn't the one who wigged out and kicked everyone in observer mode, and my intentions were simply to cast. When it comes to the issue of the cast being ruined, the blame for that goes directly on gunther/cookie. Simple as that.

Cliffs:

ZP got kicked from his server, decides to take the one Gunther is already using.

Gunther says no, we're using it.

ZP kicks entire Gunther team.


Christ dude, I've known you since before your balls drop; the fact that you continue to exhibit the same incredible level of selfishness is astounding.

Oh, I don't have a server? Well fuck Gunther's team, taking the one they're using. Oh, they don't want me to cast? Fuck them, I'll do it anyway.

All the while, pointing the finger at someone else: Wah, Gunther was stubborn; Wah, Slush kicked me; Wah, Gunther is just holding grudge.

You talk about how these situations are a reflection of Gunther's shortcomings.

Bullshit.

This is about you giving Gunther shit because you think in the end, "More of the community likes me than Gunther, so I can do what I want to him." This is about you trying to flex your e-peen over someone else, and justify your actions when its over with "Well, he's just being stupid."
Post edited by MyDadBeatsMe at 11/2/2011 10:14:06 AM

Reading this whole thread without one shred of bias, I think ZP's actions prove himself to be the far bigger faggot than Gunther.

Originally posted by: MyDadBeatsMe

Originally posted by: ZProtoss

Originally posted by: StormcrowIV
But can you honestly say you would have had an objectively good reason to do so?

From where I'm standing, your actions are just as petty and selfish as Gunther's. The difference is that you abused your invitation to the cast to play your part in all this while Gunther took an understandable and permissible, if controversial, stance based on you kicking his entire team out of a practice server a few weeks ago (some moral high ground there). In an effort you justify by projecting your opinions about casting onto the entire T2 community (most of which was clamoring for you and vax to shut up in IRC at the time), you ended what was an otherwise popular cast, ruined Thyth and Craig's efforts for the evening, and made an utter mockery of what could have been a pretty fine example of T2 casting as organized by dele.

But there you sit content with yourself, no doubt assured that I lack perspective and that you are completely right.

And sure, it's possible that I'm blowing things out of proportion but when you consider the name that HiRez is about to slap onto Tribes and how vocal we've all been about it, you should realize that we've got something to prove.
This is our game and this is our community. Let's make it something we can be proud of.

You realize the backstory to Gunther's supposed issue with me is just as stupid on Gunther's part right?

Slush banned my entire team from one of the tourney servers. As a result, we could not play on that server that night. We hopped on the server Gunther was on, and explained that we couldn't play on the other server (note: both servers on the same box, same IP, etc) due to Slush. And asked Gunther to move over (nicely I might add).

Enigma and others all told Gunther to move. Something that would have taken literally about 2 minutes to do. Gunther refused saying "No, This is my server. I'm not moving." Even though the server he was on was identical to the other one, with the exception that we didn't get banned by Slush on it.

So after Enigma and others failed to convince Gunther, I was left with no choice but to remove him and his team from the server so we could actually swap to a server we could play on. Because with a match in < 10 mins, the alternative of not being able to play on a server was untenable.

No matter how you slice it, Gunther and how he handles things is an idiot. Once he believes he has power over something, he will act stubborn simply for the sake of acting stubborn because of whatever power he thinks/may have. When you combine that with his overall low intelligence, it's not really a surprise that you end up with situations like this.

You can attempt blaming me all you want, but the reality is that all I did was join the server and go observer. I wasn't the one who wigged out and kicked everyone in observer mode, and my intentions were simply to cast. When it comes to the issue of the cast being ruined, the blame for that goes directly on gunther/cookie. Simple as that.

Cliffs:

ZP got kicked from his server, decides to take the one Gunther is already using.

Gunther says no, we're using it.

ZP kicks entire Gunther team.

Correct. Because the alternative was not playing the match due to Slush's bans. Moving from tournament server 4 to 3 (both servers on the same hardware/ip) takes less than two minutes. Given that there was no ill effects to Gunther, Gunther needed to move. Simple as that.

Are you really going to be stupid enough to say that we shouldn't have played the match that night because you didn't want to move to an identical server?

Originally posted by: om
ZP, I really didn't appreciate being banned from a server my team and I were practicing on before a match. Your issue was with slush, not us.

You weren't banned you were kicked. And you were kicked because Gunther refused to move to an identical server - and we would have been left unable to play if he didn't move to the identical server. If you're really going to defend his actions, you're dumb as shit.

Captains have the right and are justified in refusing to have their matches covered by hostile casters. These are casters who try to cast bad light on certain players or teams they dont' like. They can kill a team.

Hostile casters? Point to one instance in where my casting has ever been hostile. I've always been neutral to whatever team I've been covering. The only exception would be in-house jokes against Meyog or something.

Originally posted by: ZProtoss

Originally posted by: MyDadBeatsMe

Originally posted by: ZProtoss

Originally posted by: StormcrowIV
But can you honestly say you would have had an objectively good reason to do so?

From where I'm standing, your actions are just as petty and selfish as Gunther's. The difference is that you abused your invitation to the cast to play your part in all this while Gunther took an understandable and permissible, if controversial, stance based on you kicking his entire team out of a practice server a few weeks ago (some moral high ground there). In an effort you justify by projecting your opinions about casting onto the entire T2 community (most of which was clamoring for you and vax to shut up in IRC at the time), you ended what was an otherwise popular cast, ruined Thyth and Craig's efforts for the evening, and made an utter mockery of what could have been a pretty fine example of T2 casting as organized by dele.

But there you sit content with yourself, no doubt assured that I lack perspective and that you are completely right.

And sure, it's possible that I'm blowing things out of proportion but when you consider the name that HiRez is about to slap onto Tribes and how vocal we've all been about it, you should realize that we've got something to prove.
This is our game and this is our community. Let's make it something we can be proud of.

You realize the backstory to Gunther's supposed issue with me is just as stupid on Gunther's part right?

Slush banned my entire team from one of the tourney servers. As a result, we could not play on that server that night. We hopped on the server Gunther was on, and explained that we couldn't play on the other server (note: both servers on the same box, same IP, etc) due to Slush. And asked Gunther to move over (nicely I might add).

Enigma and others all told Gunther to move. Something that would have taken literally about 2 minutes to do. Gunther refused saying "No, This is my server. I'm not moving." Even though the server he was on was identical to the other one, with the exception that we didn't get banned by Slush on it.

So after Enigma and others failed to convince Gunther, I was left with no choice but to remove him and his team from the server so we could actually swap to a server we could play on. Because with a match in < 10 mins, the alternative of not being able to play on a server was untenable.

No matter how you slice it, Gunther and how he handles things is an idiot. Once he believes he has power over something, he will act stubborn simply for the sake of acting stubborn because of whatever power he thinks/may have. When you combine that with his overall low intelligence, it's not really a surprise that you end up with situations like this.

You can attempt blaming me all you want, but the reality is that all I did was join the server and go observer. I wasn't the one who wigged out and kicked everyone in observer mode, and my intentions were simply to cast. When it comes to the issue of the cast being ruined, the blame for that goes directly on gunther/cookie. Simple as that.

Cliffs:

ZP got kicked from his server, decides to take the one Gunther is already using.

Gunther says no, we're using it.

ZP kicks entire Gunther team.

Correct. Because the alternative was not playing the match due to Slush's bans. Moving from tournament server 4 to 3 (both servers on the same hardware/ip) takes less than two minutes. Given that there was no ill effects to Gunther, Gunther needed to move. Simple as that.

Are you really going to be stupid enough to say that we shouldn't have played the match that night because you didn't want to move to an identical server?

Are you really stupid enough to say that you couldn't have gone to another server? Are you really going to boldfaced lie to me and say you didn't choose to take that server because Gunther was there? You couldn't wait 5 minutes for them to finish up on the server THEY were on?

I know you better than that. Let me know when you grow up, that Andy might be worth talking to again.
Post edited by MyDadBeatsMe at 11/2/2011 10:41:01 AM