TLDR of why there&#39;s no tournament finals tonight.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:06

It's an amazing level of incompetence by celios to PM our leader and one of our key offensive players the night before the match and tell them

"lol you're going to be banned. show up tomorrow tho"

like players are going to show up after being told they'll be banned later on.

just totally sabotages things for the 10+ people on the team not allegedly involved in cheating.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:07

This is a complete lie.

Celios said that there is evidence against Hawson. He said that since he is on DQ he can't rule on it. He said that Redeye will let hipcats play Hawson and won't dispute if we lose. He said that if Tarzul plays as mrdressup we WILL dispute.

R[a]zz

overratedTeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:08

Too much troll

Hotel Shrikes Suck²

2011-09-18 21:09

Originally posted by: selfownage
This is a complete lie.

Celios said that there is evidence against Hawson. He said that since he is on DQ he can't rule on it. He said that Redeye will let hipcats play Hawson and won't dispute if we lose. He said that if Tarzul plays as mrdressup we WILL dispute.

It's not a complete lie. Celios messaged toys out of the blue and basically told him, "ya mossy is hawson, he's going to get banned and you can't tell me that you didn't know."

Which is why Toys had the impression up until me texting him around 3:00 today that both he and mossy were banned from tonight's match.

p s y c o r e

Not drunk, just psycoreTeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:09

If Toys and Mossy Oak are banned fine, but we should get players to replace them considering other teams with banned players got replacements (such as tarzul / Celios, ect...)

We should get projectile to replace Toys, and CPM to replace mossy oak. Or some equivalent players. But we should def get proj at least.

If you are gonna ban our dudes fine, but give us some other dudes and reschedule. If not, you are just scared of losing.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:11

No players are banned. Redeye has said a hundred times that Hawson can play and we won't dispute if we lose.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:13

You guys have to realize that if you're getting your information from Darkstrand, it is all half-truths or twisted in his favour.

Maybe Celios will post the logs of what he said last night, I can't wait for DS to say they are fake.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:15

Originally posted by: selfownage
No players are banned. Redeye has said a hundred times that Hawson can play and we won't dispute if we lose.

an admin told toys that him and mossy were going to be banned. And those guys aren't showing up now and weren't here to talk strategy or help organize.

If you don't understand how those two things relate you are as dumb as celios apparently is.

Kiwi

eat it

2011-09-18 21:15

this is ghey
can we just play next week?

-cirrus-

TWL Member

2011-09-18 21:19

Just pretend that proj and cpm got drafted by Hipcats in the 2nd draft and someone other than DQ actually got some substantial benefit from it. Fixed.

Dareplaytribe

TWL Member

2011-09-18 21:27

wuld rather go to chipotle and see shit movie at amc young dundas than sit threw another bs twl emo admin call

maybe celios turning out like nonreg or fat maverick in t1

make sense 2 me

dood called me a psychopath and neg rep me on tw because i spammed irc

he was srs 2 it was not comment in jest

he weird me out

SterIO

RockstarTeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 21:32

If the allegations are true, it was certainly a noble move on the part of Hawson to sacrifice himself at the last minute in order to prevent Darkstrand's team from winning -- much like Vader throwing the Emperor down the shaft

BLuE_ZeRO

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 22:00

Choose option 1 and save everyone the pain of having to watch this crap anymore.

All Creation

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2011-09-18 22:15

Okay so...it's been proven that mossy oak was indeed Hawson (lol we all knew anyway). Im confused about this discussion of their simple removal and replacement with top quality replacements. From my point of view shouldnt this really end with Toy's team just flat forfeiting? I understand the whole "for the good of the players" stance, but if the shoe was on the other foot im sure darkstrand would be pushing for DQ to forfeit. One could argue that Toy's team could have lost previous matches in this tournament had they not had hawson playing for them...right?

Moreover, twl precedence concerning smurfing outlines punishments as the following:

---------------------------------------------------------
The team that the smurf joined or played for most recently will be deleted.

The smurf's original team will be dropped 33% of the ladder.

The smurf's account(s) on, and possibly access rights to, TWL will be revoked.
----------------------------------------------------------

...and that's the MINIMUM. =(
Post edited by All Creation at 9/18/2011 10:19:57 PM

Teratos

TWL Member

2011-09-18 22:23

ban cheaters; forfeit match; 2ez; ggs (or lack thereof)

Vaxemous

MaximusTeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 22:24

Originally posted by: All Creation
Okay so...it's been proven that mossy oak was indeed Hawson (lol we all knew anyway). Im confused about this discussion of their simple removal and replacement with top quality replacements. From my point of view shouldnt this really end with Toy's team just flat forfeiting? I understand the whole "for the good of the players" stance, but if the shoe was on the other foot im sure darkstrand would be pushing for DQ to forfeit. One could argue that Toy's team could have lost previous matches in this tournament had they not had hawson playing for them...right?

Moreover, twl precedence concerning smurfing outlines punishments as the following:

---------------------------------------------------------
The team that the smurf joined or played for most recently will be deleted.

The smurf's original team will be dropped 33% of the ladder.

The smurf's account(s) on, and possibly access rights to, TWL will be revoked.
----------------------------------------------------------

...and that's the MINIMUM. =(

CyClones

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 22:32

One player does not a team make

ReDEyE!!

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 22:40

Straight from Match Comms:

Just want to make it clear, DQ does not intend to dispute over mossy playing if we lose tonight.

Hotel Shrikes Suck²

2011-09-18 22:45

Originally posted by: ReDEyE!!
Straight from Match Comms:

Just want to make it clear, DQ does not intend to dispute over mossy playing if we lose tonight.

Covered this in the initial post, but the problem with this is that Celios had essentially conveyed the message (even if he didn't mean to), that is contrary to what was later posted in match comms. People made plans off of what they were initially told, and expecting them to suddenly change back on short notice is a long shot at best.

As mentioned before, we could still probably reschedule things to next week. If not, then the tournament will have no real final and no clear winner.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 22:48

Originally posted by: ZProtoss
Originally posted by: ReDEyE!!
Straight from Match Comms:

Just want to make it clear, DQ does not intend to dispute over mossy playing if we lose tonight.

Covered this in the initial post, but the problem with this is that Celios had essentially conveyed the message (even if he didn't mean to), that is contrary to what was later posted in match comms. People made plans off of what they were initially told, and expecting them to suddenly change back on short notice is a long shot at best.

As mentioned before, we could still probably reschedule things to next week. If not, then the tournament will have no real final and no clear winner.

Who made plans? According to stork and Celios, toys didn't show because he's emo as fuck about people thinking he rigged the draft and wants to disappear for a while.

Celios

Competition ManagerGame OperationsTribes 2

2011-09-18 22:49

Originally posted by: ZProtoss
Celios messaged Toys last night and told him that it was likely that he had "new evidence" that mossy is hawson, and that even if hipcats were to win, the result would probably be a forfeit.

Toys and Mossy therefore end up making plans to do something else other than the tournament finals tonight as there'd be no point.

Celios and Redeye realizing that Celios's late night talk with Toys might end up resulting in no tournament finals at all decide to say that "it's ok both of them can play" - after they both make other plans for tonight.

I am getting really tired of you and DS flat out making shit up.

01[22:26] Celios: but my personal opinion is that I would rather play against hawson and win/lose than force this all to go down the day before match
01[22:26] Celios: there are people on DQ who feel differently
[22:26] toys: cel
01[22:26] Celios: but I would rather people have confidence that I didn't do this for my own benefit than to win
[22:27] toys: theres no way i will show up tmr
01[22:27] Celios: :[22:27] toys: :/
01[22:27] Celios: well
[22:27] toys: im sure mossy will
01[22:27] Celios: what I'm trying to say is
01[22:27] Celios: redeye etc
01[22:27] Celios: and I
01[22:27] Celios: can live with hawson playing tomorrow
01[22:27] Celios: and if we lose
01[22:27] Celios: wont dispute over it

Originally posted by: ZProtoss
Celios messaging Toys prior to the day of the match (even as a "friend") was irresponsible, and completely sabotaged the actual match (note: Celios is on the team Hipcats was to face). His direct interaction as an admin is what caused both directly and indirectly a good chunk of hipcats not to be around tonight.

Believe it or not, I'm good friends with Toys and talk to him on a regular basis. And yeah, I felt kind of betrayed when the Hawson evidence came to light, so I confronted him about it. We talked it out, and I made it clear that I wasn't in any position to rule on the issue even if I wanted to, so it's frankly none of your business. For what it's worth, I believe Toys did not know, and I told him as much. I also told him that I would do my best to ensure that this whole matter was dealt with after the match was reported, not before.

Originally posted by: ZProtoss
The fate of the tournament is now down to one of two choices.

1.) DQ win by forfeit, caused by an admin on their team messaging members of hipcats telling them that a ban was imminent. A clear case of conflicted interest if there ever was one.

2.) Reschedule to next week (or appropriate time), with the assurances that no further admin interference will occur between the reschedule and the time the match is actually played.

You had the option to play tonight. You had people on vent. You were even told a dozen times that we would not dispute over Hawson playing. It was your choice to not join server.

Celios is on it
TeamWarfare Competition Manager
Email: celios@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #lastgasp

Celios

Competition ManagerGame OperationsTribes 2

2011-09-18 22:52

Originally posted by: ZProtoss
Which is why Toys had the impression up until me texting him around 3:00 today that both he and mossy were banned from tonight's match.

01[22:33] Celios: well what I was kind of hoping was
01[22:33] Celios: you would play
01[22:33] Celios: hawson would play (why not)
01[22:33] Celios: tarzul wouldnt
01[22:33] Celios: and we would just have a match
[22:33] toys: they care more about playing thatn i do
01[22:33] Celios: and loser reports
[22:33] toys: i care more about the nonplaying part
01[22:33] Celios: and then hawson thing gets sorted
[22:34] toys: i had ppl i knew for like
01[22:34] Celios: well
[22:34] toys: yrs accuse me of stuff
[22:34] toys: over this
[22:34] toys: i figured it'd just go away after a while

Keep trying though, good effort.

Celios is on it
TeamWarfare Competition Manager
Email: celios@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #lastgasp

Hotel Shrikes Suck²

2011-09-18 22:58

Toys and Mossy were both not around tonight Celios. And essence after hearing about things earlier in the day when you and others weren't around decided to rage out as well.

The point is the following (which you seem to gloss over):

1.) Whether it was your intention or not, the impression you gave to Toys was that he and mossy would not be allowed to play. Toys's bewildered texts at 3:00 today prove as much. He interpreted the conversation with you to mean the worst.

2.) Because of 1.), (a conversation DIRECTLY started by you), our entire team was in disarray, missing people, and in a shambling mess. Simply because you decided you needed to PM toys and rock the boat last night.

The fact is Celios, if you didn't take it upon yourself to message Toys (whose team you were playing tonight) TWL admin related things, there would have been no confusion and everything would have been fine for today. Instead you essentially sabotaged (even if it wasn't your intent) the match and forced a no show.

The tournament will now end in either one of two ways

1.) A reschedule
2.) A final that's never played, and thus no real conclusion reached.

Lex666

TWL Member

2011-09-18 22:59

DQ and Hipcats should be disqualified.

Celios

Competition ManagerGame OperationsTribes 2

2011-09-18 22:59

I'm responsible for people choosing not to play? Grow up.

I told everyone exactly where things stood, and made it clear that I wanted everyone to play and would not interfere in any way.

I guess I mind-controlled people into not showing, huh?
Post edited by Celios at 9/19/2011 1:30:07 AM

Celios is on it
TeamWarfare Competition Manager
Email: celios@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #lastgasp

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 23:01

oh plz it was pretty clear what toys and mossy thought. YOu went in

celios "Lol I'm going to get you guys banned this week"
celios "Loll dont' forget to show up for the match tomorrow"

yeah right are people going to show up after that with any fight in them.

here are the messages I received from our players.

[19:15:54] [toys> [21:41] [Celios> hey
[19:15:54] [toys> [21:41] [Celios> can we talk
[19:15:54] [toys> [21:53] [toys> yea be back in a sec
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:13] [toys> ok wsup
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:13] [toys> celcios ded
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:14] [Celios> hey
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:14] [toys> hay
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:14] [Celios> okay where to start...
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:15] [Celios> I guess first thing I should say is that I know mossy is hawson
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:15] [Celios> and I would have to be pretty retarded to think that you dont know tht
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:15] [toys> um ok
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:15] [Celios> I know we joke around a lot, but I'm not kidding
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:15] [toys> i did mention fett the other day
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:15] [toys> that i was p sure @ this point
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:16] [toys> but mainly from demo watching
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:16] [Celios> well I think the odds are good you knew from the start
[19:15:54] [toys> [22:16] [toys> whys that
[19:38:19] [toys> sounds like im banned

[23:54] [m0ssy> this is not a troll I swear to you
[23:54] [m0ssy> apparently I am or going to be banned
[23:55] [m0ssy> so good games
Session Time: Sun Sep 18 00:00:00 2011

So, we lose 2 of our few players with under 20 hours to go before match time and weren't able to compensate for the loss of our leader/roster scramble and field 12 guys/get server pw.

Hotel Shrikes Suck²

2011-09-18 23:02

Originally posted by: Celios
I'm responsible for people choosing not to play? Grow the fuck up.

I told everyone exactly where things stood, and made it clear that I wanted everyone to play. You're gonna hold me responsible for them choosing otherwise?

I laid out the facts as they are. Your conversation with Toys directly caused him to believe that he and mossy were not going to be allowed to play. Which caused its own internal shitstorm on our team for that night and the next morning.

Coming back on late in the afternoon the next day and saying "lol you took it the wrong way", EVEN if they did doesn't fix all the damage that the above caused in terms of scheduling and getting everyone to show up at the proper time.

Also you're missing the larger point - as stupid as the entire incident is, both teams still have their current rosters. It's entirely possible to push things back a week and play the match then, which is the easiest way of solving this in a non drama filled manner.

TeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 23:03

the fact is last tourney the 4 teams with the 4 admins got the farthest.

same deal this tourney but not enough admins to go around and even things out.

I congratulate celios tho on really mucking with the finals match. A new level of incompetence bro

EpsilonNav

TWL Member

2011-09-18 23:03

I think there's a real conclusion...

Anyways this thread better be epic and drama filled since we were robbed from a final due to the hippussies sulking and being all emo.

BIGSEX

TWL Member

2011-09-18 23:04

I would just like to say that I created a new account just for tourney final and now I don't get to use it.

I'm pissed.

That's the real issue here.

-cirrus-

TWL Member

2011-09-18 23:12

Why not just reschedule? If DQ wants to be 0-0-1 champs I guess that's cool. I always said they were desperate nerds so I'm just assuming they won't.

ungberg

2011-09-18 23:13

Originally posted by: KambuL
If Toys and Mossy Oak are banned fine, but we should get players to replace them considering other teams with banned players got replacements (such as tarzul / Celios, ect...)

We should get projectile to replace Toys, and CPM to replace mossy oak. Or some equivalent players. But we should def get proj at least.

If you are gonna ban our dudes fine, but give us some other dudes and reschedule. If not, you are just scared of losing.

sure, ok replace toys with proj, but replace the alleged mawson, with, idk, a 14 round dude.. ho ho.

SterIO

RockstarTeamWarfare Vet

2011-09-18 23:15

Why would you want to push the match back and play it? We all know Darkstrand believes matches in which nowbody shows and no games are played are equally as legitimate as matches in which the game is played. Solid win for DQ yo. : ]

All Creation

TeamWarfare VetTWL Contributor

2011-09-18 23:15

Originally posted by: Darkstrand
the fact is last tourney the 4 teams with the 4 admins got the farthest.

same deal this tourney but not enough admins to go around and even things out.

I congratulate celios tho on really mucking with the finals match. A new level of incompetence bro

Again I fail to see where this "you told Toys that you caught him the day before the match...OMG that made him and hawson not show for our match so we should get a reschedule"...what??

...it's all a smoke screen for the core issue here...Your team has been using a smurf since the beginning of the tournament. If anything, Celios was WAY more than forgiving and lenient by letting you guys even have a chance to show and play the match. You didnt even take the bone he threw at you...and now you're complaining? WHAT FUCKING CRAZY LAND ARE YOU LIVING IN?!? Celios has handled this situation in the best possible way and everyone knows it.

Hotel Shrikes Suck²

2011-09-18 23:15

Originally posted by: All Creation
Celios has handled this situation in the best possible way and everyone knows it.

Going out of his way to have a conversation with Toys the day before the match (the cause of all of this), and then having his actions result in a tourney finals that never happens is clearly the "best possible way."

The best possible way would be to simply reschedule after all of the drama that was caused.

C53421

Teamwarfare Vet

2011-09-18 23:16

Ok hold up...
What I'm taking from this is that the majority of the hipcats roster was so SHOOK by the fact that mossy/hawson was possibly not going to be able to play that they just decided to not show up? Bitches please...

And Toys (being the bitch I figured hes always been) decided to be a complete failure at being a team captain and not only doesnt show up, but doesnt even bother to try to organize some sort of decent showing for the finals match even if he was not going to play himself?

This tournament has turned into the biggest joke T2 has seen in quite a while. I see nothing wrong with what Celios did, he smelled bullshit and called toys on it. He was doing his job, good on him.

As for ZP and darkstrand (beavis and butthead, ren and stimpy, thelma and louise), if you pathetic mother fuckers put as much effort into your real lives as you did this old ass fucking game, maybe you'd actually be somewhere in life.

Enjoy the next tourney supernerds.
Post edited by C53421 at 9/18/2011 11:17:39 PM

Hotel Shrikes Suck²

2011-09-18 23:18

Worth noting btw - the situation is clearly not 100% Celios's fault. Toys definitely wigged out and handled things in the wrong way. However, the point still remains that if Celios didn't magically decide to PM toys and through his words give Toys a false idea of what was going on, we would have had a match tonight.