TWL, the patch and base

The base ladders are in trouble.

We as a team have a server (SMP) that cant run the patch. We use this server for practices, scrims, matches, tests etc. And if required to run patched, we quite simply wouldnt have a server. (I own the servers. It's not a simple matter of getting another server).

TWL has recommended that base ladders play unpatched.

On it's face, it would appear that this is a good thing. It would appear to mean that we as a team by conforming to the TWL's recommendations would be in a position to actually use our server. But that's not the truth. TWL will kill any match that doesnt feature agreement on patch level between the teams IN SPITE OF TWL's recommendation. Not everyone can run the patch. You cant recommend that. Everyone can run unpatched. You can recommend that.

So we as a team that owns an SMP-patch-unfriendly server and follows TWL's recommendations find ourselves in the following situation:

1) We cant use our server simply because the other team wont run unpatched. (In spite of TWL's recommendation).
2) Every member of our team is forced to install a second copy of T2. If they dont, the match will be killed. And this in spite of TWL's recommendation and our conformance to it.
3) We spend several weeks with problems over the incompetence of Sierra and the patch (and lost players as a result) followed by a week of even MORE headaches with a team that simply wont use a patch level that not only works for EVERYONE but is recommended by the TWL. We lose more players.
4) We end up having to play on a laggy, phazing piece of shit server (missing starters thanks to Rodberg, TWL and a team that wouldnt follow the TWL recommendations) or face have the match being killed. That is, WE had to maintain double installs and lose our server even though WE were conforming to the TWL's recommendations.
5) The other team didnt have to maintain double installs and had access to their server IN SPITE OF THE FACT that not only did they NOT conform to the TWL's recommendations but in fact had neither the intention or interest in doing so.

We follow TWL's recommendations, they dont and WE are screwed.

I'll be honest here. I think TWL fucked the puppy on this one. For those teams that are ONLY on base ladders like us and only want to play, we are now faced with the prospect of dealing with other teams that now have yet one more rule to lawyer in their arsenal AND the prospect of being forced to use a patch that is NEITHER official or FUNCTIONAL and losing access to team servers or risk having our matches killed.

Good job TWL.

It's funny actually. After all the shit I have heard from TWL staff regarding the patch, the TWL decides to make the patch a defacto standard even though Sierra wont. Even though at this point not even Sierra will own this piece of shit, apparently TWL has no problem owning it.

If a player wants to compete on a ladder that requires the patch (Classic, TR2, V2) then they need to be patched. If they ALSO CHOOSE to compete on a base ladder, they should be unpatched. That means in that case they need two installs. Funny thing is, we ONLY play on the base ladder and we now are required to have multiple installs in spite of that. (and we lose our server to boot). It makes no sense. And it is causing harm.

At this point, I'm beginning to think that it just isnt worth it.

Yeah I agree.
TWL is gay.

As I understood it, if one team prefers Unpatched - the match is played Unpatched. If an agreement is not met, the match is played Unpatched.

Now, this is contrary to what you say, "TWL will kill any match that doesnt feature agreement on patch level between the teams..." If this is the case, I'm just plain wrong in my assumptions.
What happened?

e.

Ya, if 1 team can only play "unpatched" then the match has to be played unpatched. That's what I read a few weeks ago and not sure if that's changed though.

Where is that written? The official rules haven't been ammended yet have they?

There is no way that everybody will ever agree to anything. Before ever setting up a date and time then ask the other team if they HAVE to play "patched" if so then decline their challenge. Now if they make you forfeit for that then screw that and just move to V2. lol j/k
Post edited by WreakHavoc at 10/19/2002 12:19:08 AM

wow

Hell. Sorry man, don't know what to tell ya.

...we sort of had the same problem... the rules are not clear and should be rewritten... if they have... my bad.

IMO, and I am able to play patched, if team A needs to play unpatched, and team B refuses, then its team B that should get a forfiet, and team A should win.
when I read the post about this issue, that was exactly how I read it, team A & B have to agree to a cancellation, otherwise team B forfiets.
being fair is one thing, but since Sierra made a fukd patch, and not supporting said patch, thn TWL as well should not support it, and make it more favorable for the many teams out there who cannot use their servers (whether renting or own) for practices and such.
I know our clan has offered out our server to 4-5 teams so far, who cannot use theirs due to the patch issues, we dont mind it, but tonite I had to turn someone down because they have a match at the same time as we do. and with such a limited amount of available servers, its harder than ever to find a patched base server.

Im sorry, but honestly (and yes, it would suck for my clan just as much as many others) TWL should stick by their original statement and make it more favorable to those clans who are just plain fukd because of this patch issue.

dont get me wrong TWL admins, I do think you do a hell of a job with what you have to deal with on a day to day basis.
but I think the patch has screwed more base teams than not.
and while I agree you cannot make everyone happy, you should do what is right, and that would be stick by something you know works for everyone.

The worst thing about the patch is that, even BASE isn't really base any more.

It doesn't feel right, plus some weapons no longer function properly.

I think the best thing would be to require BASE to be pre-patch, across the board.

TS - HOR

I agree with that, base does feel wrong now.
until they patch it for real this time, and actually fix teh things that were wrong, like UE's and such.

my question is, since they were releasing classic for competition, then why did they even mess with base physics ?
I mean, I know alot of base players, and none of them had any complaints of how base played.

I've had to ask for the last 3 matches to be cancelled since we have an unpatched server and the other teams don't play unpatched.

I have told other staff that I would push for a kill. But if push comes to shove my htoughts is the team that doesn't want to play UNpatched should get a loss. Teamwarfare has not enforced the patch. We recommended that teams revert to the old one. Therefore you cannot force a team to play patched. I still stand by issuing a los to the team that wont unpatch. Vlasic made a news post a while back. Teams need to heed to it and unpatch. This is simply my thoughts. I will sit down and chat with Vlasic asap regarding this and see if we can come to an arrangement.
Post edited by Janus at 10/19/2002 1:39:31 PM

The flipside of this is that some of our members are not that technically adept, and with the normal T2 install issues (firstaid, etc) it took some of our folks a few days of struggling to get patched up. Getting everyone set up with a second T2 folder with the previous version isn't going to necessarily be all that easy. And it's not like we can tell everyone to throw out their patched folder (our last few base matches have been patched, we're signed up for TR2, looking into Classic and V2, etc).

I understand your side of it though too, it sucks to have a server affected by the patch's bugs. But cancelling matches when the two teams can't agree on the patch level doesn't seem to me to be so horrible. Is the lack of matches weighing on morale? Maybe you can seek out other unpatched teams to challenge or be challenged by? Or try to arrange an alternative server to practice on? If we were to get each team on the ladder to post their version capabilities (both, old only, new only) would you still see this as a huge problem?

Yes, those suggestions mean more hassle for you and no, it's not your fault the patch is busted. But any forced way we do things is going to suck for somebody.
Post edited by Shoddy at 10/19/2002 3:43:01 PM

Shoddy, send your guys to read tihs, it works, and its so very simple to do, all they have to do is follow the directions posted, nothing else.

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=4&threadid=21497

Thanks for the link. You sure about that though? It looks like scripts.vl2 and base.vl2 were updated with the patch. Are the changes to those files just server side changes, or might they cause odd behavior in a 24xxx client?

nope, I tested it already, no problems so far, the only major chnge is that the game plays diff than if you had actually done the dual folder option.

oh, and np
Post edited by §yn†h€+ík at 10/19/2002 4:01:55 PM

#1 you dont need two installs of tribes to play both patched and unpatched

just save your 24834(not sure if right number) tribes2.exe then patch it up.
all you need is two .exe's
mine is like tribes2.exe and tribes2-28434.exe
then just run which exe youw ant to play

also jimbodkins. if you have to patch you are more thne welcome to borrow one of our servers. we dont use both 24 hours a day. we let quite a few teams borrow one

also it says directly on tribes2.com

that the end of the week it was required to run that patch.
that was rom last month. so basically sierra is saying its a requirement to patch so we did.
vgrd if tribes2.com says t2 must be patched then um ya.

xenon
froum whore

LOL, xenon, this isnt a flame towards you, but the admin misspelled your title

they meant to do it.

and btw i was the first non admin to get a title hehe(that i ever saw) then came like eyecu and whoracle and suicidetaxi. they did it cause i was always having typos and didnt care to correct them

hahahah
thats too funay
thx for giving me a good laff

Ever since the new patch came out and TWL decided not to enforce it, I think most teams on the Base ladder have encountered the standard problem of one team wanting it and the other not. This has resulted, at least in our case, in the opposing team running to get an admin (we didnt want to play the new patch as our server is SMP). This wastes the time of the already busy admin and also usually gets the match cancelled.

I'm behind TWL on this issue but I feel they should enforce it with a forfeit for non compliance rather than a match cancelation. The fix for the new patch will be out soon and we can all patch up.
Post edited by Coupon at 10/19/2002 8:15:37 PM

The only problem with this is the double standard that exitsts considering, TR2, and Version2 are ladders that require the use of the new patch. And for a team that plays on both of those ladders is stupid to require them to install 2 copies of tribes2 on each members computer and on the server.
The other problem no one is talking about is what if the server for the other team is less than good. And that is the ONLY choice to play the match on. That is the biggest problem. So the team that has been playing on the lastest offical patch, is now playing on a foriegn server, with foriegn physics and weapon characterestics. They have no recourse if the server they are playing on is posting high pings for their team.

Does that all make sense?

Originally posted by: Valkarie
And for a team that plays on both of those ladders is stupid to require them to install 2 copies of tribes2 on each members computer and on the server.

That was my complaint earlier in this very thread. See http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=4&threadid=21497 to avoid needing two T2 folders on each client.

The other problem no one is talking about is what if the server for the other team is less than good. And that is the ONLY choice to play the match on. That is the biggest problem.

If for some reason you are unable to shut down the 25xxx verson of T2 and start up the 24xxx version for your base match, you could still arrange to borrow a server from a third party.

So the team that has been playing on the lastest offical patch, is now playing on a foriegn server, with foriegn physics and weapon characterestics.

AFAIK, there are no physics changes in the patch. The only weapon change I'm aware of is shortening the ELF range. And most of us were playing with these "foreign" conditions for a year between the patches.

My clan just dropped from the 7-Man Base Ladder last night because of this rule. We had all our members upgrade to the latest patch and went through hell to get our GamingHost server switched over to the new patch and now TWL makes a rule like this?

I know all about the old-exe and myself and a few others can play on old & new patch, but it does,nt work for everyone for some odd reason. We took a vote and decided to drop from ALL Base competition until such time that TWL makes the new patch required.

[sCs] had lots of good times and hope to see you guys again if TWL ever figures out what they are doing.

base will be a wasteland till patch is official. the majority of ppl have working servers. its really only a few teams that dont. and im sure they can borrow servers. we let two teams use ours regularly.

vgrd maybe a patched base and a unpatched base ladders now lol

Originally posted by: xenon

base will be a wasteland till patch is official. the majority of ppl have working servers. its really only a few teams that dont. and im sure they can borrow servers. we let two teams use ours regularly.

vgrd maybe a patched base and a unpatched base ladders now lol

ouch
I thought about that also, talk about deviding the community
T1 > T2base > T2base_patched > T2base++ > T2Ver2 > T2classic.........

edit:owned by smily
Post edited by §yn†h€+ík at 10/21/2002 6:27:54 PM