Back to Tribes 2 - CTF, etc...

maybe i missed something, but wtf is Version 2?

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^?
the answer to all your desires
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*BBBZZZZZZZZZZZZT*

the correct answer to all my desires is you (Veor), a giraffe suit, a bottle of astroglide, and a fifth of jack.
w/o finally woke up from his drunken slumber.

Originally posted by: w/o

^?

what?
i am not 100% sure on this but i think V2 is..

base++ with a face life for the new patch. It fixes some bugs and "improves" some things. Such as faster invs/vpad, changes sensor distance, shrike and bomber armor are changed..ect..

-sub
http://qing.netquickposse.com/version2/
Play it and find out.
its way different from ++
one of teh new mods... like classic and shit



What is the difference between V2 and Classic then?
I suggest you play them for yourself, anyone's oppinion is likely to be biased.
Classic rocks and V2 does not.

(UNBIASED)
Just swap what ^ said.

Honestly, Test em both out, they are server side versions trying to give T2 players a little spark back in the game.

Classic is T1 feeling and fast as hell, and many love it.

V2 is faster T2 than Base++ and has other modifications that make it a riot.

V2 is more skill required - so I hear.
Classic seems like it will suck in a match and V2 seems very balanced.
V2 is b++ with sucky shrikes, fast missles, huge ass sensors...oh, and "no lines for inv's"...it's all the rave.
V2 is b++ with easier defense... just what T2 needs.
Originally posted by: GIMPbeowulf

V2 is b++ with easier defense... just what T2 needs.


very ns
it's arena ctf...more chain bullets, don't need tg for bomber, instant inventories
Originally posted by: 82nd Mofo

V2 is b++ with sucky shrikes, fast missles, huge ass sensors...oh, and "no lines for inv's"...it's all the rave.
Way to boil it down to nothing. Thought about trying it in a pub?
Originally posted by: GIMPbeowulf

V2 is b++ with easier defense... just what T2 needs.
You're high if you think V2 is easier for the defense. If anything, it's the offense that is a little overpowered, not the D.

Are you thinking about the slightly toughened generators? Now didn't Classic just go ahead and follow V2's lead on that one? Or are you thinking of the faster repair pack. Must be one of those players that enjoys sitting there doing some elite gen repairs. 'hey ma, look at me, I am kickin ass at repairing this gen!'

Does it make D easier, when the O has stronger concs, stronger grens, cappers that can hit speeds up to 260kph, havocs that only skilled shrikers can shoot down, dive bombers that can put a dozen bombs on the same spot, tank mortars with nearly double the blast radius, sensor jammer packs that don't require energy, and grav bikes that a shrike can barely keep up with, let alone shoot. Not to mention faster speeds for all the armors means that the offense gets in many more attack runs each map.
Originally posted by: Qing

Originally posted by: 82nd Mofo

V2 is b++ with sucky shrikes, fast missles, huge ass sensors...oh, and "no lines for inv's"...it's all the rave.
Way to boil it down to nothing. Thought about trying it in a pub?


I did, on Kentucky Ver 2. There is some effort put into this mod, that's for sure. Hats off Qing for that. But its just not my cup of tea. Personally, it just feels like T2 for Dummies. Everything that could be challenging was patched out. IMHO, it would make a great "pub" mod if it wasn't so damn floaty and slow. I'm sure several people will enjoy it, though, mostly those than want to play for simple fun and not have to reclaim an owned base.
Originally posted by: Flawed
it just feels like T2 for Dummies. Everything that could be challenging was patched out.

like?

[Legal]I am speaking on my own, not on behalf of anyone else. Please do not misconstrue my words as those of any other. All opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not represent the opinions of any other person.[/Legal]


Flawed,

I would like to hear your reasoning behind that statement. I think the gameplay of T2 is just what was needed. I believe it is what T2 was really meant to be like. I wont get into the Classic argument. Its apples and oranges to me. I prefer v2 for the exact features that Qing has implemented.

If you think its for dummies, well thats your perogative to think so. I heartily disagree, and we can leave it at that.

I enjoy V2 more than any of the other mods, IMO it makes for more variability strategies that may not be as present in Classic. Of course, Im sure that even just saying that will bring out the poison spreaders..

Oh well..

Qing.. V2 has really re-interested me in Tribes2. For the first time in a while, I am enjoying the game again.
Originally posted by: Alphamale

Flawed,

I would like to hear your reasoning behind that statement. I think the gameplay of T2 is just what was needed. I believe it is what T2 was really meant to be like. I wont get into the Classic argument. Its apples and oranges to me. I prefer v2 for the exact features that Qing has implemented.

If you think its for dummies, well thats your perogative to think so. I heartily disagree, and we can leave it at that.

I enjoy V2 more than any of the other mods, IMO it makes for more variability strategies that may not be as present in Classic. Of course, Im sure that even just saying that will bring out the poison spreaders..

Oh well..

Qing.. V2 has really re-interested me in Tribes2. For the first time in a while, I am enjoying the game again.


T2 for Dummies wasn't used in a pejorative manner... more an analogy to the beginner-level series of books. I feel Version2 is like that, in a sense... an entry-level mod for beginning T2 players.

1) Tougher gens remove any responsibility towards COMPETENT defense. You just put any clown at that position and he'll probably shoot down the opposition before your rock-hard gens go down. Base, Base++ and moreso Classic requires that you have good players at the HD position, or you could be in for a long night.

2) Bomber flares eliminates any need for a tailgunner. There was a balance before... wing it without a tailgunner and outrun missiles... or wait (and lose 1 player) for a tailgunner and survive a bit more. Now there's just no need.

3) Spam was a fact of life in competition. Some teams spammed everything, others prefered to rape up-close. But you had to adapt to both situations. Now, with the tank mortar nerfed, that's less of a problem. You should look at a few 311 demos on Slapdash, where a tank would circle behind the base and land pinpoint spam to the vpad. That was challenging to stop. In V2 its not even a factor.

4) You can foul up any route, you can make any sort of mistake skiing, and V2 will forgive you. Energy is plentiful, you can fly/hover for an eternity. Acceleration is high, top speed is not. That means that cappers are never rewarded for a good route. Bad LDs can catch up to anything.

All in all, I'll reiterate what I said. V2 has all the makings of a "pubbing" mod. No gen D, short invo waiting time, tolerates any kind of movement mistakes. At the higher spheres of competition though, it just won't cut it. But I'm sure the V2 ladder will attract its fair share of teams, some that prefer the more simple approach V2 gives them. Because frankly, if you want to compete at the higher levels of Classic comp, its a lot more work.
Post edited by Flawed at 10/3/2002 1:09:31 PM
for the "Tougher gens" doesnt it only take a mortar and a mine to kill 1?

[Legal]I am speaking on my own, not on behalf of anyone else. Please do not misconstrue my words as those of any other. All opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not represent the opinions of any other person.[/Legal]


Qing, I want your opinion here.

Do you feel that v2 is a match friendly mod...

Or do you feel that it is pub friendly, or both?


I'd be willing to give it a shot, but I want your opinion on this one =p
also the bomber throws 3 flares out and has to recharge for 30 or so secs before any could be thrown out again.You still need a tger if you want to stay in the air still destroy alot.

[Legal]I am speaking on my own, not on behalf of anyone else. Please do not misconstrue my words as those of any other. All opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not represent the opinions of any other person.[/Legal]


Originally posted by: Sentor

Qing, I want your opinion here.

Do you feel that v2 is a match friendly mod...

Or do you feel that it is pub friendly, or both?


I'd be willing to give it a shot, but I want your opinion on this one =p


I knew it...

Catch 22, coming to a V2 ladder near you.


Flawed...

T2 for Dummies wasn't used in a pejorative manner... more an analogy to the beginner-level series of books. I feel Version2 is like that, in a sense... an entry-level mod for beginning T2 players.

1) Tougher gens remove any responsibility towards COMPETENT defense. You just put any clown at that position and he'll probably shoot down the opposition before your rock-hard gens go down. Base, Base++ and moreso Classic requires that you have good players at the HD position, or you could be in for a long night.

***Funny..then why is this now in comp/classic mod?*** This was done to MAKE teams use coordination to take down gens and stop the loan light from taking them out.

2) Bomber flares eliminates any need for a tailgunner. There was a balance before... wing it without a tailgunner and outrun missiles... or wait (and lose 1 player) for a tailgunner and survive a bit more. Now there's just no need.

***Is not as effective as you seem to think it is. You get 3 flares every 30 secs. Now the bomber can be used the way it was intended and not as a higher speed ferry

3) Spam was a fact of life in competition. Some teams spammed everything, others prefered to rape up-close. But you had to adapt to both situations. Now, with the tank mortar nerfed, that's less of a problem. You should look at a few 311 demos on Slapdash, where a tank would circle behind the base and land pinpoint spam to the vpad. That was challenging to stop. In V2 its not even a factor.

***Spam is still effective only thing that has changed is the fact that the 450m through the window shots are now gone. Same for the tank. The round wasn't nerfed..it has DOUBLE the blast radius but a slower loading time. The spread was put in for the same reason as the mortor to prevent the insane long range super accurate spam

4) You can foul up any route, you can make any sort of mistake skiing, and V2 will forgive you. Energy is plentiful, you can fly/hover for an eternity. Acceleration is high, top speed is not. That means that cappers are never rewarded for a good route. Bad LDs can catch up to anything.

***Wont argue about physics...you like yours we dont to each his own

All in all, I'll reiterate what I said. V2 has all the makings of a "pubbing" mod. No gen D, short invo waiting time, tolerates any kind of movement mistakes. At the higher spheres of competition though, it just won't cut it. But I'm sure the V2 ladder will attract its fair share of teams, some that prefer the more simple approach V2 gives them. Because frankly, if you want to compete at the higher levels of Classic comp, its a lot more work.

***How can say this? With the vehicles now useful again it opens up a ton of new tactics for teams to use. I don't see how you are missing that.
Originally posted by: {NQP!}Keeper
***Funny..then why is this now in comp/classic mod?*** This was done to MAKE teams use coordination to take down gens and stop the loan light from taking them out.


If a lone light makes it past your gen D, you deserve to get your gens blown up. BTW, the "tougher" gens are only a test version of Classic (Vanguard West Sacramento). Almost to a man everyone has said that it sucked, and to put the gens back where they were.

Concerning vehicles, they're still very useful in Classic. People who say otherwise simply haven't scrimmed/played it in an organized environment.
Post edited by Flawed at 10/3/2002 1:40:06 PM
Originally posted by: Flawed

Originally posted by: {NQP!}Keeper
***Funny..then why is this now in comp/classic mod?*** This was done to MAKE teams use coordination to take down gens and stop the loan light from taking them out.


If a lone light makes it past your gen D, you deserve to get your gens blown up. BTW, the "tougher" gens are only a test version of Classic (Vanguard West Sacramento). Almost to a man everyone has said that it sucked, and to put the gens back where they were.

Concerning vehicles, they're still very useful in Classic. People who say otherwise simply haven't scrimmed/played it in an organized environment.


Yup and when we first seen it we said the same thing...Damn that sucks change it back. Then we realized hey thats a damn good idea. You still need Gen D. Without it you are still powerless. But it did what it was intended to do stop the lone LO from taking gens. (although he still can with the right weapons)

Basically what this stops is the cowboy match start spawn raper that we all came to love on maps like desic, slap..etc..

So you are telling me the havoc is useful in classic? Somehow I just cant agree on that one.
Originally posted by: {NQP!}Keeper

So you are telling me the havoc is useful in classic? Somehow I just cant agree on that one.

Well, that's true, but to be honest, I don't think anyone considers the Havoc anymore (and hasn't since base, really). It's not a great example to use for your argument. Yes, I agree that it would be nice if the Havoc had never fallen out of favor as I hate having something in the game never get used. It was a cool sight to see 5 HOs jump out of a Havoc on Reversion and lay waste.

The bomber, shrike, tank, MPB, and grav cycle are still very useful, however.
Er, for the record, I enjoy V2, but I prefer classic (for now). And I think that Qing and I have differing opinions on a few things that mean I might not play V2 competitively. (The floaty feeling is a prime example.)
Flawed summed up my feelings on V2 very well. It’s T2 with training wheels (if that’s possible). That doesn’t mean people won’t enjoy it, but sadly what’s good for pubs is almost always exactly what’s wrong for competition. As I read through the list of changes I wanted to cry. I won’t argue about every change point for point since I have no intention of ever competing in V2, nor do I care to spend my time changing the minds of the people who will. Besides, my arguments are not hard to figure out if you follow the general “mod-maker’s theme” of removing skill potential and freedom while adding superfluous shit.

I can respect the time and effort that Qing has put into this mod, if this was simply meant for fun pubs along the lines of ninja-mod I would have no objection; but Qing’s efforts were misdirected and the push to make this a competitive mod is hurting the community.
m0s...I am the same way with Classic. Its fun yes but I dont like some things about it. Once again to each his/her own. I would love to play classic on the 7 man ladder anything larger IMO will turn into a HO fest. But once again some people love that. *Edit* Forgot to add that the latest version had some grav tweaks so its not near as floaty as it was in the unpatched versions although its still not set near as high as it is in classic*edit*

SterIO...I had this same battle with someone else last night about what v2 was made for. At the time of conception you had two choices for the new patch. Classic or base. Base++ wasn't being ported and wasnt being supported by those that wrote it. So it came down to either play classic which I didnt like, play base which after ++ was slow and boring or leaving altogether. (This is not only my opinion)

Sure the "top" teams loved classic as it catered to their playing sytle. Not everyone likes that style. So Q decided to make v2. It started off as a small project that to on a life of its own. It was the community (granted not the classic crowd) that asked for it not just him alone. So please do not try and say Qing is doing this to split the community or anything to that effect. If anything IMO its keeping more people involved in the community then if it wasnt around.


Post edited by {NQP!}Keeper at 10/3/2002 2:37:19 PM
Originally posted by: SterIO

Flawed summed up my feelings on V2 very well. It’s T2 with training wheels (if that’s possible). That doesn’t mean people won’t enjoy it, but sadly what’s good for pubs is almost always exactly what’s wrong for competition.


I think this condescending theme of V2 being "T2 with training wheels" is complete horse-shit. Can you not accept that this is YOUR opinion and that of some of the others that prefer classic?

I can make the same arguments as to why Classic is less involved, needs less varied strategies, etc. Of course this would be MY opinion, which you would strenuously disagree with. But it does NOT make you (nor me)empirically right. Period.

This effort to belittle V2 and attempt to make it appear less than it is to the community at large is getting to be stale and childish.

V2 is every bit as valid and acceptable a mod as Classic. I dont understand why so many of the Classic Zealots feel so threatened that they have to piss on everyone else. Wait.. maybe I do...

I have nothing against the classic mod, I prefer the gameplay of V2. Its just that simple.








V2 goes too far with the LD/Gens. Making any good shocklancer into a uber HO killer yet the gens are so strong that the damaged HO who gets there can't take it down.

Classic goes way too far with HO speed. Making any good Ho into a raping machine that can't be stopped before he's in your base & raping things.

I already know classic isn't going to change.. But if V2 would just restore normal gen health OR tone down SL range it has the chance to be the most balanced mod going.
In all honesty...im not pro-either side...but this is why i prob wont play v2 much

Inv's are great.
Relative speeds are great, but could be faster.
Bomber and havoc...great improvements
Repair time is great.

Shrikes are too slow/missles too fast.
Gens too strong.
grav bike too fast.

The problem with that list is that what i like about it simply improves skill-less gameplay. The bottom half that i dont like penalizes strong shrikers/cap/mf and HO's (my favorites) by not rewarding them with what they *should* be able to accomplish.