Who DOESN'T like T:V or thinks it sucks so far??

Originally posted by: War
For me, I did not like it at first. But the more I play the more I like. Now with T2, the more I played the less I liked it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just a couple of things irk me and remind me more of UT2k4's onslaught mode than Tribes. I know it's beta, but it doesn't feel like Tribes. A lot of things could be fixed very easily.I'm not terribly worried about weapon/pack/armor balance, but I will criticize gameplay mechanics or design decisions:

Scale. Everything is huge. If you've played T1, you know that the mountains felt like mountains, and the players were pretty small in scale to the terrain. In T:V the players seem like small mechs, and the terrain seems ultra detailed and small compared to them. Even objects seem really huge. The flag is the size of a heavy armor, the turrets are half the size of a light armor.. it just seems big and clunky.

Trails.Part of the thrill in the previous tribes games was estimating your speed and trajectory versus the other players speed and trajectory and nailing them with a disc or something. Instead they added trails so you could see where someone was heading, but I don't think I've once been in a position where a trail helped me out. Instead you end up with this awful mess of swirls on the screen when there are more than 3 people jetting around in front of you. Add in weapon trails and it's more confusing than helpful.

Turrets. They are all at turret stations... great, but the things are huge and you have to run back and forth between an area to deploy and the turret station. Imagine if you could only buy one turret at a time, and it had to be from the base invos. I don't think the number of turrets changes with the player counts so 4 turrets is going to have to hold you even if it's 10 v 10 or 12 v 12.

Mines. See turrets.

Sensors One sensor. Sensor up... IFFs on. Sensor down... IFFs off. It's simple, I'll give them that, but I am about 90% certain the sensor will never be up in a match no matter what kind of attention you give it.

Repairing. I'm kind of torn on this, but just seeing from pubs, and thinking about the kind of pressure matches put on bases, I am seeing a poor sap having to sit in the base and jam his pack button every 10 seconds while wave after wave of HO tear down his generator.

OOB Grid. Limitless motion, complete 3 dimensional freedom of movement. Just don't leave this box. O_o

Skiing. I think I posted this in the other thread. It just doesn't feel right. In T1 and T2 Classic you feel like a cannonball. You roll down hills, gain some speed, hit a nice ramp and go sailing with a little intervention from your jetpack to tweak your path. In T:V you slide around and are thrown in whatever direction the terrain is at the last point you touched the ground. Once you run out of jet energy it's like someone switched the gravity to the "Jupiter" setting and you drop like a rock.

Weapons. There are some weapons I like a lot. The grappler is awesome and it's really fun to use. The buckler is just a load of fun when you actually MA someone with it or get a nice looking kill on it (though I think a buckler MA should be a little more spectacular). The rest of the weapons are good, but I still think the disc is just a tad slow. Also, the nade launcher tends to look almost completely like the mortar. The CG is ok, and the rocket pod seems underpowered against vehicles.

Vehicles. I can already tell the tank and bomber are going to be pains in the ass, and the flyer can fire off way too many missles without any sort of reloading time. Rover is actually OK, but I really think it's a midfield vehicle if anything. Someone might actually try the clown car thing, not sure how that will work. But there are no shields on the vehicles (thank goodness), so vehicle complaints are really a balance issue.

That's about all I can think of.

my complaint is that it just doesn't look or feel like tribes. oh and the scale is totally off as JX mentioned...everything is tiny compared to your player model.

I don't know if it's post-LAN depression or what but I have absolutely ZERO desire to play the beta right now.

I was hoping I'd be more into it but I'm not. I imagine if I played more of it, my mind would change but I just don't have the same draw to the game that I do T2.

The nice thing about going in between T2 and T1 is, you could actually get used to the skiing within 5 minutes. Once you hop onto T:V, it take a long time to adjust.

I don't think I like the overall FEEL of the game.




HeatSeeker | HeatSeeker 2 | HeatSeeker Lite | Baby Got Smacked | Farewell to T2 | Wakka Wakka

I've got the PLD(post lan depression)too TT :{

nice post johnny

The game rocked while I was at TW:W. I was MAing people left and right, getting MA nades and such. Now that I'm home......MEH.

EDIT: Only a few guys on my team have it so that may be a major part of it. I'm sure if all my guys had it, I'd play it more.


Post edited by TTHREAZ at 7/29/2004 3:19:12 PM



HeatSeeker | HeatSeeker 2 | HeatSeeker Lite | Baby Got Smacked | Farewell to T2 | Wakka Wakka

Originally posted by: Chry

Originally posted by: Durak
It's not that I hate it, it's that I don't enjoy it like I do with T2. There's a bunch of things that need fixing right now (skiing, tab != console!!!!, mortar balancing) that I'm sure WILL BE changed before I can enjoy this game.

You can change the tab thing... as well as all of your controls in the .ini files.

What ini file?

Originally posted by: TTHREAZ
I don't know if it's post-LAN depression or what but I have absolutely ZERO desire to play the beta right now.

Good. Because i have absolutely ZERO desire for you to play the beta right now.



T24lyfe!
See ya on Titty.

Originally posted by: BLuE_ZeRO
Took me a few years to not like T2. Pretty good payoff on a $50 investment.

I feel pretty much the same way

This game is going to be ass until someone like Zodd comes round and makes a comp mod for it. I've been of this opinion since playtesting the alpha.

T1 and T2 got my attention like no other game has because of the myriad skill levels and focus areas. No one in the game has mastered every element of Tribes. From skiing, to shielding, to shriking, sniping, etc. There's so much to polish.

From what I've seen of TV. I don't expect that its going to have the same unforgiving skill level. And I won't throw hours at the game unless its going to give me that same challenge. I'd rather go golfing.

Just my $.02.

BBJ

:o

first review ive heard like that.

so u think its too easy? grappling hook, vehicles, new packs? ure a pro already?

that was the impression alot of people had of t2, and the jist of the super long, world famous essay by Natural of IE. ironic!
Post edited by Blotter at 7/29/2004 4:51:37 PM

BBJ have you played it at all since alpha?

most people that are complaining about skiing haven't taken any time trying to learn how it works now. It is not newb t2 skiing anymore, you have to actually pay attention or you will get thrown off your route.

No Blotter. I didn't mean to imply in the slightest that I've mastered it. Not have I mastered tetris. But I know the game well enough to know its not worth mastering. I've seen enough to know that its not gonna have a grip on me like T1 and T2 did. The feel just isn't there. I know thats nebulous but I don't need to eat a whole pie to know that the slice I had was made of shit.

I haven't played it since Alpha. My opinions are based on the alpha, the reviews I've read, and the movies I've watched. The skiing is jacked up. No shrikes. Laser is jacked. In the alpha the physics couldn't have been more wrong.

I wasn't really looking for the devs to reinvent Tribes. I'm not sure why every dev thinks that they have something to add. Sometimes you improve with substraction. Sometimes with additions. This time I feel they've subtracted the wrong stuff and added things that won't really fill the skill gaps.

We'll see I guess. Its all speculative at this point. But since people are offering opinions I decided to throw mine out there. I'll buy the game. But I doubt I'll get into competition or consider running a team for it. I just really doubt that they've put together a product thats going to appeal to me.

Maybe it will appeal to everyone else. But that's not my concern. Quite honestly I'm more excited for the single player elements because I really don't have much faith in the competitive facet of this iteration of Tribes.

Hope that makes sense.

BBJ

haha u guys are weird. maybe u just cant adapt and are already throwing in the towel. i love this game more than ive ever liked t2 already. learning all over and getting to start from scratch with everyone else (first time) kicks ass. ill be playing this game for a while, with or without u guys.

Originally posted by: TTHREAZ
I don't know if it's post-LAN depression or what but I have absolutely ZERO desire to play the beta right now.

I was hoping I'd be more into it but I'm not. I imagine if I played more of it, my mind would change but I just don't have the same draw to the game that I do T2.

*Sigh* I dunno, I haven't played in a day or 2 and before that just barely, making some movies for non-betaers, not really getting into it.

Most of the people I know who started beta right off the bat don't even touch it anymore. Maybe it's because T2 still offers some thrills or because T:V isn't yet perfectly balanced. Whatever the case it, I'm still pubbing T2 rather than T:V at this point :
As for the amount of time it takes to become good at T:V, let me put it this way. T2 -> T:V adjustment time: 5 minutes, T:V -> T2 adjustment time: 5 hours.

Edit: With regards to BBJ's post - yeah, I don't feel I've 'mastered' it either, but it's just so quick to jump into it doesn't really offer you much incentive to get good at the nuances.
Post edited by Celios at 7/29/2004 5:09:10 PM


sn|Celios

I offer one opinion of dissent. I just don't feel like re-typing it here, it's in the Vengeance forum:
http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=182&threadid=157553
DONT CLICK THIS

Maybe you just can't smell the stink coming from the shit yet. Eitherway, its my opinion. If you want to fantasize about TV all day and night and how awesome its going to be, go right on ahead. I never hated T2. I never hated T1. I'm not a hater. I just haven't seen a lot to get my pumped or excited for TV.

Just because its new doesn't mean its good.

BBJ

Originally posted by: BlackBeltJones
No Blotter. I didn't mean to imply in the slightest that I've mastered it. Not have I mastered tetris. But I know the game well enough to know its not worth mastering. I've seen enough to know that its not gonna have a grip on me like T1 and T2 did. The feel just isn't there. I know thats nebulous but I don't need to eat a whole pie to know that the slice I had was made of shit.

I haven't played it since Alpha. My opinions are based on the alpha, the reviews I've read, and the movies I've watched. The skiing is jacked up. No shrikes. Laser is jacked. In the alpha the physics couldn't have been more wrong.

I wasn't really looking for the devs to reinvent Tribes. I'm not sure why every dev thinks that they have something to add. Sometimes you improve with substraction. Sometimes with additions. This time I feel they've subtracted the wrong stuff and added things that won't really fill the skill gaps.

We'll see I guess. Its all speculative at this point. But since people are offering opinions I decided to throw mine out there. I'll buy the game. But I doubt I'll get into competition or consider running a team for it. I just really doubt that they've put together a product thats going to appeal to me.

Maybe it will appeal to everyone else. But that's not my concern. Quite honestly I'm more excited for the single player elements because I really don't have much faith in the competitive facet of this iteration of Tribes.

Hope that makes sense.

BBJ

well, i guess ure one of those "the glass if half empty" ppl, but nonetheless, its ur opinion.

id like to see ya there, hopefully things turn out better than ur speculation, and i can once again own u at o-sniping. it just wouldnt be the same!

i think for at least the first 3 months competition will be most certainly good, but after that, people will really get a feel for the game and thats when some might start to bail (or by some off-chance, they start to join!).

anyhow, i pray ur wrong.

lol its funny to see people say skiing sucks... just because its not as easy as t2.

Thx Blotter. I hope I am wrong too for what its worth. I'll give it a chance. Just having a hard time being optimistic about it given what I've seen. If the Zod\ds were running the development instead of a bunch of Australians who've never really played hardcore Tribes, then my confidence level would be a lot higher. C'est la vie though. We shall see.

BBJ


Post edited by BlackBeltJones at 7/29/2004 5:15:52 PM

Personally... I like how the game is easy to get used to off the bat. We'll get more players.

I do, however, feel that it will be much harder to master and skill levels will be off the charts as new tricks are brought into play.

For example, the other night I MAed a capper from the side as we were both moving around 200kph, I instantly switched to the grappler and nailed his flag out of the air before it, or his body, hit the floor.

It was fucking awesome and looked pimp

Originally posted by: naner-
lol its funny to see people say skiing sucks... just because its not as easy as t2.

That might be your opinion but its not mine. I'd prefer that every element of hte game be made more difficult. Not easier. In my experience I felt like skiing in T2 CLassic was more skill demanding that what I've seen from TV. I guess I'm of a similiar mind as raggy as far as the skiing and grappling hook goes.

The GHook is a novelty device. It will be fun to monkey around with it (literally). But does that make for good comp play?

BBJ

Originally posted by: BlackBeltJones
Thx Blotter. I hope I am wrong too for what its worth. I'll give it a chance. Just having a hard time being optimistic about it given what I've seen. If the Zod\ds were running the development instead of a bunch of Australians who've never really played hardcore Tribes, then my confidence level would be a lot higher. C'est la vie though. We shall see.

BBJ

well, alot of old t1'ers have great confidence in KP, who is just as capable as z0dd imo. That and this dev just seems to "get it" (it, as in tribes = speed + teamwork) alot more than what was seen from the t2 dev team. thats a big confidence booster if u were around for that.

Originally posted by: Blotter

well, alot of old t1'ers have great confidence in KP, who is just as capable as z0dd imo. That and this dev just seems to "get it" (it, as in tribes = speed + teamwork) alot more than what was seen from the t2 dev team. thats a big confidence booster if u were around for that.

did you read his last dev journal

seems like he's come to reality that games=money

shazbot (looking now)

er crap, tw down?
Post edited by Blotter at 7/29/2004 5:27:30 PM

Wow, just wrote an LJ-esque 3 page post on my feelings on T:V and then the page refereshed and I lost it all.

...

Im f*king pissed.

So in short...

Game is synthetic, not natural. Feels forced to play like T2.

The scaling of the game is totally off. Player vs. Objects vs. Terrain is flat out wrong and could ultimately have us playing T2 at next years tournament, not T:V Newbs Vengence.

Minus the grapple the skill level/complexity is fraction of what T1/T2 offered. With smaller maps and a highly limited OOB's grid; with disc launchers shooting in constant bullet-time and mortars with splash damage liking Hiroshima, the game is totally newbiefied. Between the "friendly" spawn feature, simplified farming, compact maps, and less complex skiiing/physics, the game is terrible mundane when paired to the higher minds of the Tribes gaming community.

Quake fans may love it. But then again, they just point, click, and blow things up.

Is that us?

Originally posted by: BlackBeltJones
I haven't played it since Alpha. My opinions are based on the alpha

Holy shit then stop whining until you can back it up.

Edit: For those who haven't played T:V JohnnyX has a great synopsis of why T:V doesn't work. Read above ^

wow, another bad review :/

its scary how similar these are to the t2 reviews when it first came out..

Good post LJ. I wish I had been more articulate in my thoughts like you and Raggy.

BBJ

Originally posted by: SterIO

Originally posted by: BlackBeltJones
I haven't played it since Alpha. My opinions are based on the alpha

Holy shit then stop whining until you can back it up.

He asked for opinions on how the development was progressing and thoughts on it so far. Sorry you don't like my opinion. But quite frankly, I could give a fuck what you think I should or shouldn't do.

BBJ
Post edited by BlackBeltJones at 7/29/2004 5:37:19 PM

Wow all of the T2 players are starting to sound like the T1 players after T2 was released. I have had alot of fun so far and yes some things need tweaked no doubt. I find the ski-ing very odd at this time but every time i play it gets a little easier to ski.

I want to play a couple of PU's or some kind of structured match type play, that will be the teue test for me.

I havent played in alot of Beta's but i would venture to say that this Beta is pretty damn smooth.

Originally posted by: BlackBeltJones
If the Zod\ds were running the development instead of a bunch of Australians who've never really played hardcore Tribes, then my confidence level would be a lot higher.

just to echo what blotter said, KP has played hardcore tribes, and there are a lot of T2 hating T1ers that would laugh at you for thinking that you had (played hardcore tribes in T2).

Personally, i'm glad that when i first booted up the game i was like, holy shit i suck at this. If i'd been able to run out of a base, drop off a hill and be zooming off on a made up route going 300 i would have felt cheated. i'm glad that i suck, because it means i have something to work at.

(note: i still suck at T2 so i don't expect to ever stop sucking at t:v)

JX's post is just saying that TV isnt T1 or T2. There's no argument as to why TV won't be a great game, only why it won't be like what we're comfortable with.

Catch 22
#22

take pride in the fact that u rock at sucking jsut, thats not easy to do! i myself, am 1 of the best at suckin, so just step off.
Post edited by Blotter at 7/29/2004 5:36:13 PM

blotter:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/534/534131p1.html?fromint=1

I actually think the game is a good game, but I think this in much the same way the UT series and Quake games were good games. They're a fun diversion, but ultimately not worthy of the same time and practice people put into T1. They are fun to play when you're bored, but you don't find yourself wanting to spend time alone in a server practicing routes.

Sure the skiing is hard to master, but there really aren't any other facets of the game to master. It's all about just getting used to the weapons and playing. Once you have a good aim with the basic weapons you are set. The buckler and rocket pod probably take the most skill to become good with, and the grappler takes a little skill to use well.

The deployer role is pretty much gone since now everyone can deploy though, no more awesome farmers.

The team play of setting up a decent sensor network quickly is gone as well.

That is the way I feel about T:V. They really went nuts with the whole "simplify" philosophy, and in doing so they converted what was the only real strategic first person shooter into a death match with deployables.

Still though, I am optimistic. I think that even if nothing changes from now to release, some smart people from the community will come together quickly and make a competition mod.

One of the main problems when I first started that game was that I tried to use the skill set I learned for tribes and it didn't work for t:V. That's what has me scared. If it doesn't ski the same way as tribes, if the weapons don't work the same way as tribes, if you can't play the same positions effectively the same as tribes, how is it then tribes?

I didnt think i was gonna like this game, and didnt for the first couple of days i played it..After putting some time into it, though, i can definately see some potential..I dont know if this game can ever totally take the oplace of T2 for me, but it is still tribes..just with a different feel...It does seem there is less of a learning curve, but there also seems to be lots of space between being able to do something and actually mastering it...

Im not sure that this game will be as good for comp or shoutcasting as t2 simply because of the speed of things..also, there are a few things that need to be tweeked..

1. def need a flight ceiling..fukn gunship can bomb from out of view

2. rover should take WAY more damage if driven poorly...right now it required NO skill..

3. This wont be changed, but ill mention it anyways..the player models look like mech warriors or judge dread or sumpin..Everything else is Beautiful in the game, who came up with this shit?

4. Due to the added mobility of heavies, it may be necessary to limit the number of heavies allowed per team for a comp setting..its simply TOO easy to get them to the opposing base..

5. the chain will prolly need to be nerfed a bit..it is FAR too easy to use..maybe if the spread/overheat just happened faster..

6. the tank is fukn plain retarded..and, even tho all the vehicles are fairly easy to destroy, they are WAAAAY too easy to drive/shoot with and fire a bit too fast IMO. they have already become total fagmobiles..

I am sure there is more that i cant remember right now, so ill post it if i think about it..

In conclusion, id like to say that this game in no way will REPLACE T2 for me..though i am far from mastering it, i can tell that the learning curve is nowhere as high as T2..This leads to less satisfaction for accomplishing goals and mastering technique..

it is, however, Tribes, and quite fun at that, regardless of the fact of whether or not it turns out to be a great game for comp..

PS>> maybe some that hate it feel that way becuase they are no longer dominant players and they have to get owned by nubs like me If you see it as another game and not your T2 replacement, then maybe you will feel differently..