Tribes Council, TWL perspective...

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The Boss's Wife

2002-08-05 07:07

Seeing as how TWL did have representation at the Tribes Council (namely me, and TRD) I figured some of the people here would like to know the short of it all.

If you want to know the long of it, I'm sure the TW threads will suffice.

Natural's Post on TribalWar

Sierra announced to us that Tribes: Fast Attack was canceled, but you already knew that (i think). What this means, is that Sierra wont be re-releasing the game we have now, with a new game, and expect us to pay $50 for it.

Instead, they are going to re-release T2 at some point in the near future for $10. This new release will include the latest patch (aka final patch) as well as Comp Mod (looking for new name) and Team Rabbit 2 (also looking for new name). The changes to the current t2 will be available for free download for those of us who already paid for T2.

In addition, the Tribes 2 community features will be lessened, both News and Forums will be removed from the in-game community features, allowing for hopefully a faster experience with the game and a more focused dev team.

For competition, with the comp mod coming out, we want to close the current T2 Base, and Base ++ ladders, and open up two new T2 ladders (12 or 14 man and 7 man). This will allow us to bring some more focus back into the competition.

Thoughts, comments, feedback?

]CkB[Triston
Teamwarfare Developer

ZProtoss

Sherlock fucking Holmes

2002-08-05 07:12

Don't close the base ++ ladder. Convert base ++ to Competition mod, leave ladder standings as is. Say fuck off to any of the people who try to complain that base ++ is seperate from comp mod. Pretty simple there. Close T2 base CTF ladder. 3 active teams, its time for that ladder to go. So anyways

Convert Base, 7 and 12 man ladders to comp mod.
Convert base ++ ladder to Comp mod. (No ladder standing changes).
Convert Whatever else to comp mod.

Basically, don't wipe out the standings, convert every ladder to competition mod and let things be. If people whine (there are a few people who are an extremely small minority), then ignore them. Converting everything to comp mod with no ladder standing changes is the way to go.

TeckMan

no ggs allowed

2002-08-05 07:39

yes what zprotoss said. p.s. I wanna 1v1 you in war3

Yankee

TWL Groupie

2002-08-05 08:11

If a conversion is done, I would think a 2-3 week break in period would be a good idea, as teams adjust to the new physics/gameplay.

See you in a couple days bro
Post edited by Yankee at 8/5/2002 8:12:11 AM

Triston

The Boss's Wife

2002-08-05 08:41

Oh ya, look forward to seeing you yankee.

Stinkfist

TWL Staff

2002-08-05 08:52

basically what ZP said, but I would leave the base ladders, just change 16 to 14 man. Let it die it's own death. There are still some die hard basers out there that would make the ladder worthwhile I would assume.

I would also move to rename the ladder from base++ to compmod instead of killing the ladder and restarting it. Just maybe reset everyones win/loss's? So basically just copy the ladder and reset everyone .
Stinkfist
---
Skeptics Annotated Bible

Janus

TWLAdminSenior Ops Staff

2002-08-05 09:03

Originally posted by: Stinkfist

basically what ZP said, but I would leave the base ladders, just change 16 to 14 man. Let it die it's own death. There are still some die hard basers out there that would make the ladder worthwhile I would assume.

We tried this once.........

I htink opening a 14 and closing the 16 and whatever else Triston said is definately the best way to go.
Post edited by Janus at 8/5/2002 9:06:45 AM

Janus
Teamwarfare Senior Operations Staff

shady!

TWL Member

2002-08-05 09:05

so when you switch it to comp mod.. youre thinking about sticking to 14 or goin to 12?
personally, i like 12 cuz im all for the small tribes & more players/teams
but dunno, what do i know.. the 14man is goin pretty well :]
shady!

Polaris

The Boss

2002-08-05 09:13

A plan is in the works. I'd rather not get into an open debate about it just yet. We will have a better idea of how this will go by next week.

]CkB[Polaris
Teamwarfare Director of Operations

Alphamale

TWL Member

2002-08-05 10:00

Im sure I missed this somewhere, and apologize for asking, but what are the main differences between the "final patch" and the comp mod?

I was under the impression that they would be very similar. Would comp mod not include custom skins? scripts?

So for T2 competition, there would be One 12 or 14 man ladder, and One 7 man ladder? If so, I think this would be a good idea. I would however like to suggest that if it turns out that we have a 7-man and a 14-man ladder, that you consider a 10 man as well. I know this has been brought up before, and I dont want to beat a dead horse anymore than it has, but with a reduction to 2 main ladders, adding a 10 man might be more palatable. Having 3 ladders would still be less that what we have now, and would create the greatest versatility in team size.

Anyway, just a suggestion. Ill play and be happy regardless. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Thanks
Alpha

Wolfehollow

TWL Member

2002-08-05 10:09

Why couldnt we have a 14, 10 and 7 man comp mod ladders... this would allow a variety of different game plays and teams to compete on TWL.

Dimmesdale

TWL Member

2002-08-05 10:10

I think just a 7 man and just a 14 man would be great. No need to split teams up any further, IMO.

Mutton^

TWL Member

2002-08-05 10:38

Originally posted by: ZProtoss

Don't close the base ++ ladder. Convert base ++ to Competition mod, leave ladder standings as is. Say fuck off to any of the people who try to complain that base ++ is seperate from comp mod. Pretty simple there. Close T2 base CTF ladder. 3 active teams, its time for that ladder to go. So anyways

Convert Base, 7 and 12 man ladders to comp mod.
Convert base ++ ladder to Comp mod. (No ladder standing changes).
Convert Whatever else to comp mod.

Basically, don't wipe out the standings, convert every ladder to competition mod and let things be. If people whine (there are a few people who are an extremely small minority), then ignore them. Converting everything to comp mod with no ladder standing changes is the way to go.

Agreed.
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Yo soy el carnero.
[Ai] | (S|B) | [crAb]
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Squidly

TWL Contributor

2002-08-05 10:44

I'd say convert Base++ and Base++ 7v7 to Comp Mod,
drop the Base ladders. Keep the standing the same, simply zero the w/l records. Then folks coming over from Base start off at the bottom just like a new team.

FortuneTeller

TWL Member

2002-08-05 11:36

Well, I'm not a big user of the news and forum section within Tribes anyway. Most of the info can be had here or any of the other Tribes sites. My question is when is all this planning to happen? When are they removing News/forums, it seems that nothing works anyway (sarcastic). Sierra wants more players, how can they get any when the browser is down, how can I add players to my roster when the browser is down.

On the Ladder side. Why kill base, the 7vs7 base ladder seems to be moving along fine. Personally I or my clan don't care, a ladder is a ladder. But when it happens I would go with 7vs7, 10vs10, and 14/16 vs 14/16. But again when is all this planned to take place. SIERRA FIX MY BROWSER.

Polaris

The Boss

2002-08-05 11:38

Originally posted by: Polaris

A plan is in the works. I'd rather not get into an open debate about it just yet. We will have a better idea of how this will go by next week.

]CkB[Polaris
Teamwarfare Director of Operations

Cavalier

TWL Member

2002-08-05 11:46

gotta agree, there are honestly too many ladders right now.

But if you really wanna do shit right, let me make all the decisions at UVA in a few days. That will TRULY be the best decision.

Flatscan

TWL Member

2002-08-05 12:03

Originally posted by: Cavalier

gotta agree, there are honestly too many ladders right now.

But if you really wanna do shit right, let me make all the decisions at UVA in a few days. That will TRULY be the best decision.

Heh

Phyzx

TWL Member

2002-08-05 12:04

Oh listen to Cav, he knows everything (and will be sure to tell you at UVA).

-Cirrus-

TWL Contributor

2002-08-05 12:13

I doubt i speak for my team when i say kill everything but Arena, 7manComp, 14manComp, TeamRabbit2, Duel, and 2v2Arena.
Cuz there is no way your going to be able to avoid splitting the comunity and keep base and base++ and CompMod. This community is split as it is. CompMod has the power to reunite the t2 community and make it better then it ever has been especially if TWL just does what it knows has to be done(which i have faith that it/you will).

Shoddy

TWL Member

2002-08-05 12:33

Kinda sucks for you guys. Just trying to make a good ladder site, and you end up having to be caretakers of T2.

As for the TR2 name, from the description of it, perhaps a made-up, cartoonish sort of name (no disrespect intended) might fit well, like "taghi".

Neofight

TWL Member

2002-08-05 12:35

Allow those interested in a base-only competitive experience find another ladder. Compmod, for better or worse, is the future of T2. Kill everything but a 7- and 14-man compmod ladder with reset W/L records. Give everyone 2 weeks to get their scrims in with the compmod or adjust their rosters (esp those who are p;laying on a ladder with a new-and-improved team-size). Then fire it up, and let it rip. (Of course, keep the arena/duel stuff or whatever!)
Post edited by Neofight at 8/5/2002 12:41:54 PM

z0dd

TWL Member

2002-08-05 12:53

For those that don't know, CompMod is base+++, or simply put, a newer version of base++. You'll be able to see all the changes once the website is finsihed (no ETA).

I wouldn't mind just renaming the current base++ ladder to CompMod or whatever it'll be called. Team sizes shouldn't be any lower than 14v14.

Also, this mega patch will include 10 Classic maps from T1 by nefilim. These are updated versions of the ones in the xpak (DC, RD, etc..) and includes new maps such as IceRidge, DesertOfDeath, BlastSide, BroadSide, and Scarabrae. The ladder should use these new versions as soon as it's been decided they don't have any problems.

Also, the mega-patch will include those 13 maps many of you have been helping us test over the past 6 months. Every one of the maps plays well in competition, and I'm sure most will eventually make it to the ladders. They can be used in base or any other mod; they arent linked to CompMod.

Gmd

Zima rox

2002-08-05 12:55

Just rename base++/comp mod ladder to CTF ladder

WeNdeL

Death on a Stick

2002-08-05 12:57

No offense z0dd but...

DesertOfDeath, BlastSide, BroadSide, and Scarabrae can all stay the hell away from T2 imho.

edit: and btw, a 10 man ladder would rock!
Post edited by WeNdeL at 8/5/2002 12:57:51 PM

Go get my T2 soundpack here.

PsYcHoKiLLa

TWL Member

2002-08-05 13:10

I enjoy playing base but losing interest fast due to lack of competition in ladder.. I impose creating a 10 man base ladder, since there is alot of teams out there only has 10-15 man rosters to draw up competition.

z0dd

TWL Member

2002-08-05 13:25

Originally posted by: WeNdeL

No offense z0dd but...

DesertOfDeath, BlastSide, BroadSide, and Scarabrae can all stay the hell away from T2 imho.

edit: and btw, a 10 man ladder would rock!

To each his own. I never said there were worthy maps for the ladder. They were enjoyed on pubs by a huge number of players.

Razer_guy

TWL Member

2002-08-05 13:28

Personally, I think using CompMod to reunite the competitive community is the way to go. It would be awesome to have all or most of the competitive teams on one ladder, which I'm sure some would argue has happened already.

My only fear is that, should all present ladders be converted to CompMod ladders, 12 man base will get shafted. I really don't want to get into a debate about it's value in relation to 14 man base++, because in my opinion both ladders have their merits and 12 man is immensely satisfying for me and my team. Giving all the tribes on 14 man base++ priority over 12 man base in some sort of half assed conversion is really a bad way to approach the situation(not that anyone at TWL has suggested this, but some vocal players may push for this). I think opening CompMod ladders like any other new ladder and letting everything sort itself out after a few weeks is the way to go.
Post edited by Razer_guy at 8/5/2002 1:30:35 PM

Destiny

TWL Staff

2002-08-05 13:31

Im with wendel ... but z0dd is correct ... the newbies loved scarabrae, Blastside, and broadside. However, i wanna see daunt do a backcap against 2 t2 elfs and the mine disc on iceridge
-- Destiny

pinfoo

TWL Member

2002-08-05 13:42

first start by eliminating all of the 7 man ladders and merging them into a 7-man compmod ladder. This would create a highly competetive 7 man ladder, and get newer teams ready to move to the 14 man ladder.

keep the 12 man base ladder

convert the base++ 14 man ladder to comp.

This would leave 3 main t2 ctf ladders. 7-man comp, 12 man base and 14 man comp.
Post edited by pinfoo at 8/5/2002 1:43:46 PM

Gmd

Zima rox

2002-08-05 13:44

Scarabae was fantastic before people knew how to ski

JuSTCHiLLiN

TWL Member

2002-08-05 13:52

Here's a suggestion: start a new ladder, offer 2000 bucks to the team that finishes first every month, and then don't start the ladder for 2 months.

Seriously, Base++ will be the new competition ladder so why screw with it.

I would like to add that I think that there should only be 2 ladders, 7 man and 14 man Competition Mod. Get rid of everything else (remove all base ladders, leave siege and ren if they're popular, and duel ladders are fine too).

We need to start advertising the base++ (or competition) ladder to teams that have members but don't know about it. More teams = More fun.

JestrzPlague

Just don't call me straight

2002-08-05 14:08

Agreed fellas. Like z0dd said, CompMod *IS* base++ for the most of it. Just ditch the CTF and rename the Base++. There's no need for getting everyone to sign back up on TWL etc etc.

Don't change team sizes. 14 is fine! Teams have built their rosters around that number mind you.

If you do rename Base++ to CompMod, do allow for a break period for teams to adjust to this change, servers to set it up, etc.

If you want real competition, offer prizes. Grant 1000 bucks or whatever every month or every other month to the number one team. Hell, I'm sure TWL whores would pitch in a few bucks each month to keep themselves on the ladder, granted it was a donation, not a demand. Perhaps lower times wouldn't contribute, but anyone in the top 10 probably would. Have each #1 match casted, etc etc.

We have enough ladders, and we have enough divided teams. Lets just do the impossible and pull the community back together O.o

________________________________

-(v)-JestrzPlague
JestrzPlague(9)

atan

TWL Member

2002-08-05 14:14

I totally agree with JC here and think we should only have 2 (7 & 14) dedicated CTF ladders. Focus and organize the CTF genere and we'll eventually get more teams climbing aboard resulting in more fun.

Big Daddy Rock

TWL Member

2002-08-05 14:14

Originally posted by: Polaris

Originally posted by: Polaris

A plan is in the works. I'd rather not get into an open debate about it just yet. We will have a better idea of how this will go by next week.

Hey here is an Idea listen to the Boss!! At some point we need to just assume they know what the hell they doing. They put more thought and time into this then most of us and they play the game. TWL always seems to do what they think is right and have proven to be fair so let them just do it.. No votes or opinons needed they will hash it out and do the right thing.. They already have enough cooks in the kitchen..

EasilyOdd

TWL Member

2002-08-05 14:18

Originally posted by: Big Daddy Rock

Hey here is an Idea listen to the Boss!! At some point we need to just assume they know what the hell they doing. They put more thought and time into this then most of us and they play the game. TWL always seems to do what they think is right and have proven to be fair so let them just do it.. No votes or opinons needed they will hash it out and do the right thing.. They already have enough cooks in the kitchen..

Amen my brotha! I trust the TWL guys to make the right choice. At worst they are willing to change something that doesn't work.

What does the road sign say? Let them work! Let them live! Let TWL make the initial choice.

envy

TWL Member

2002-08-05 15:03

Originally posted by: atan

I totally agree with JC here and think we should only have 2 (7 & 14) dedicated CTF ladders. Focus and organize the CTF genere and we'll eventually get more teams climbing aboard resulting in more fun.

xenon

froum whore

2002-08-05 15:25

Kill 7,12, and 16 man ladders all of them.

Add one 10 man comp mod ladder

Convert base++ ladder over to comp mod. Pause alll chalenges the ladder for a few weeks let the open challenges do their matches then give a 2-3 week period of adjusment. then let play resume as normal

Rilke

TWL Member

2002-08-05 16:34

I agree with Protoss. Convert where possible instead of begin again. Leave it at 14 per team to provide options for teams. If you have to downsize somewhere, just do it and bear the bitching. Need to streamline comp as a responsibility to the game and to the TWL, under the circumstances.
Post edited by Rilke at 8/5/2002 4:37:45 PM

Panda Star

TWL Member

2002-08-05 16:35

why drop the base 7 man? it's always seen action and I know that if converted I would lose some of my teammembers due to their machines having no tolerance for base ++ ( they all crash within minutes of joining any base ++ server). so leave it alone if you can will save me and I would think a host of other teams problems.