Thoughts on Commander mode in Competition

I personally love the Commander mode in public servers, where you have the ability to go 40 and 0 against a team.But....

how effective do some of you beleive this position will be in 12v12 action? considering the men will be spread out in small moving groups, so on and so on.

Just curious, because i love the commander role, but not sure how effective it will be in league play besides supply drops and uav.


*never EVER take me serious* I work 50 hours a week, and have kids, its in my nature to sound like a dick :-P

well, we've had about 6 scrims so far, and the commander role has an important role in regards to intel, but the arty strikes are not nearly as effective as you see in pubs. It's biggest role in matches are going to be supply drops and the uav, with the scan as intel. You won't be running up any big scores in a match I assure you.

arty strikes will be more of a support than a "hey im gonna total poon some newbs" Assault.
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^^^^^^^^

what they said.

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The arty will get some people here there but alot of the clans will have counter measures to get out alive ie: they will know everywhere you can take cover at all the flags and survive; among other things. It still needs to be applied though because the other team will have to respect it because if they dont that is when it will be very effective. This plus all of the other tools will keep the commander busy.

Originally posted by: =|BC|=Kevin
The arty will get some people here there but alot of the clans will have counter measures to get out alive ie: they will know everywhere you can take cover at all the flags and survive; among other things. It still needs to be applied though because the other team will have to respect it because if they dont that is when it will be very effective. This plus all of the other tools will keep the commander busy.

If you ask me there is no hiding from arty. I was in a building this morning getting pounded, and it still got me... some how... inside the building...

Well the arty can still take out AA and jeeps so its not COMPLETELY useless!

The only thing I do not like about the commander mode being used in competition is the full battlefield scan. The uav is fine to use in certain situations, but the ability to scan the battlefield once every minute (or however long it takes to recharge) makes it hard for a squad or an individual to sneak around a base.

Originally posted by: War_Dawg
The only thing I do not like about the commander mode being used in competition is the full battlefield scan. The uav is fine to use in certain situations, but the ability to scan the battlefield once every minute (or however long it takes to recharge) makes it hard for a squad or an individual to sneak around a base.

It makes it IMPOSSIBLE to sneak lol cause I check that everytime its available and point out those guys!

Originally posted by: BACKoffBUDDY

Originally posted by: War_Dawg
The only thing I do not like about the commander mode being used in competition is the full battlefield scan. The uav is fine to use in certain situations, but the ability to scan the battlefield once every minute (or however long it takes to recharge) makes it hard for a squad or an individual to sneak around a base.

It makes it IMPOSSIBLE to sneak lol cause I check that everytime its available and point out those guys!

That is the one very thing that I dont like about it, it takes out the possibility of stealth and we all know that that is a big part of any battlefield, by just pushing a button. I dont think that it should be taken away but there should be a significant increase in between scans or just limit the number it can be used per round, maybe 3-5 times depending on time limit. Atleast this way it puts some kind of strategy in using them wisely. Dont forget you can still zoom in on any point and see the enemy coming on any part of the battlefield so that is still plenty to keep the commander busy.

take out the radar and limit the scans its that easy, the uav has the trailer the scan uses the radar 2 c4 charges and no more scans

Originally posted by: Casket_Filler
take out the radar and limit the scans its that easy, the uav has the trailer the scan uses the radar 2 c4 charges and no more scans

The ladders are like 12vs12, there are hardly gonna be enough guys to put on flags and in the air, you cant really spare anyone to do that.

Originally posted by: =|BC|=Kevin

Originally posted by: Casket_Filler
take out the radar and limit the scans its that easy, the uav has the trailer the scan uses the radar 2 c4 charges and no more scans

The ladders are like 12vs12, there are hardly gonna be enough guys to put on flags and in the air, you cant really spare anyone to do that.

Plus, they can tell you are going to their main to take out the radar because YOU CAN'T SNEAK AROUND. It is not like they are going to ignore you and let you take out their radar and arty and uav trailer.

I don't know about the full scan, but I know the UAVs don't see special forces troops. That would definitely help for the whole sneaking around thing.
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Originally posted by: Johnny D
I don't know about the full scan, but I know the UAVs don't see special forces troops. That would definitely help for the whole sneaking around thing.

It would indeed help sneaking around to their main to take out stuff. I still think, however, that the full scan should be limited. I do not think there going to many squads comprised soley of spec ops... although all that c4 is tempting.

Originally posted by: War_Dawg

Originally posted by: =|BC|=Kevin

Originally posted by: Casket_Filler
take out the radar and limit the scans its that easy, the uav has the trailer the scan uses the radar 2 c4 charges and no more scans

The ladders are like 12vs12, there are hardly gonna be enough guys to put on flags and in the air, you cant really spare anyone to do that.

Plus, they can tell you are going to their main to take out the radar because YOU CAN'T SNEAK AROUND. It is not like they are going to ignore you and let you take out their radar and arty and uav trailer.

That is the beauty of commander, u HAVE to SNEAK round... not just run up one side of the map...

Have any of you even used the command? You can zoom as if from a satillite & see real time movement... you can scope the whole map in less than 30secs. Taking out the radar or scan wouldn't be good enough, the commander can easily look ahead of where a group is going & tell them what awaits them. Sneaking around is a thing of the past, you gotta go in groups...
.... always one step ahead.

Originally posted by: {cc42}BlackHawk5
Have any of you even used the command? You can zoom as if from a satillite & see real time movement... you can scope the whole map in less than 30secs. Taking out the radar or scan wouldn't be good enough, the commander can easily look ahead of where a group is going & tell them what awaits them. Sneaking around is a thing of the past, you gotta go in groups...

Which is why I think the the scan should be limited, The commander can still see the whole battle field without it.

i have noticed like nilla said, you can take out people in buildings if you fire on a base. just depends on if the arty hits that building directly or not.


*never EVER take me serious* I work 50 hours a week, and have kids, its in my nature to sound like a dick :-P

Originally posted by: Burt_Flaxton

Originally posted by: War_Dawg

Originally posted by: =|BC|=Kevin

Originally posted by: Casket_Filler
take out the radar and limit the scans its that easy, the uav has the trailer the scan uses the radar 2 c4 charges and no more scans

The ladders are like 12vs12, there are hardly gonna be enough guys to put on flags and in the air, you cant really spare anyone to do that.

Plus, they can tell you are going to their main to take out the radar because YOU CAN'T SNEAK AROUND. It is not like they are going to ignore you and let you take out their radar and arty and uav trailer.

That is the beauty of commander, u HAVE to SNEAK round... not just run up one side of the map...

Do you even know what the scan does? YOU CAN'T SNEAK AROUND NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY BECAUSE YOU WILL STILL SHOW UP ON THE COMMANDER SCREEN. I just thought that you might understand it in bold a little better.

I love the Commander mode, but it's useless if your players refuse to communicate with you and tell you what they need!

I haven't played a BF2 match yet, but I was predicting that one clan member would be a commander and the other members would make up several squads. The commander can then issue commands to each squad and manage the entire assault. So Squad Alpha only has to be concerned about their assigned objective and so on.

I think this will be great for clan competition.
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I think the great amount of information available to a commander is one of the primary aspects of Battlefield 2, and to take that away would only be trying to turn it into some other game.

As long as their equipment is up, both teams have access to the same information. It's a matter of how effectively they use it that will separate the pros from the n00bs.

If a commander can maneuver his squads around the enemy effectively, it simply won't matter that the enemy knows where they are. It's sort of like chess; your opponent knows exactly where your pieces are, he just doesn't know what you're going to do with them.

Taking out scan and UAV equipment can be seriously detrimental. An effective squad of 2 special forces soldiers can make a huge difference in winning a battle, provided both commanders are using their resources to the fullest.

However, I would like to see the ability for supply crates to repair assets removed. It makes it far too easy to keep those things repaired, and far too difficult for special forces to keep them destroyed.

Originally posted by: Nomex
I love the Commander mode, but it's useless if your players refuse to communicate with you and tell you what they need!

Notice the title of the thread please.

And that seems to be a problem with a lot of other opinions on this. You're looking at it almost from a pubbing point of view. The commander isn't your leader. Nor are your squad leaders actually leaders. The commander does 4 valuable things, artillary strikes, uav placement, supply crates, and let's you know if there is an advance coming to a flag. I'm going to get my hands dirty and be in the action while calling the shots, using the information I get from everyone, including the commander. While all that's going on, the commander will be in a defensive position away from the majority of the action.
`

Originally posted by: =|BC|=Kevin

Originally posted by: Casket_Filler
take out the radar and limit the scans its that easy, the uav has the trailer the scan uses the radar 2 c4 charges and no more scans

The ladders are like 12vs12, there are hardly gonna be enough guys to put on flags and in the air, you cant really spare anyone to do that.

wrong

you will make space for that....simply put...if you don't knock out their intelligence capabilities, you will lose...That will be the single most important strategy change in this game....locating and destroying enemy commander tools....especially scan and UAV....

arty in matches of 12v12 or less will only be effective if you have the opposing team in a base rape....a good commander will know the routes enemy armor takes to get to a spot and can call arty on chokepoints though.....that makes for a hell of a mess.....

edit: and I agree with the comments above on the supply crates...they shouldn't be able to repair equipment....but for now....blow the crate first and then blow the equipment....
Post edited by Lightning1 at 6/21/2005 12:30:53 PM

Originally posted by: Johnny D

Originally posted by: Nomex
I love the Commander mode, but it's useless if your players refuse to communicate with you and tell you what they need!

Notice the title of the thread please.

And that seems to be a problem with a lot of other opinions on this. You're looking at it almost from a pubbing point of view. The commander isn't your leader. Nor are your squad leaders actually leaders. The commander does 4 valuable things, artillary strikes, uav placement, supply crates, and let's you know if there is an advance coming to a flag. I'm going to get my hands dirty and be in the action while calling the shots, using the information I get from everyone, including the commander. While all that's going on, the commander will be in a defensive position away from the majority of the action.

But the Commander can be your leader if you choose to follow his orders. Same goes for the Squad Leader. If you have several Squads, the Commander can issue orders to each Squad Leader and directly influence the outcome. Squad Leaders must also make decisions on the ground using the information and orders given by the Commander, while also sending requests to the Commander. It always seems to me that in pub servers, the winning team has a good Commander and Squads that work with him. I would think that this relationship would benefit 10x in a clan match where members are communicating on TS.

I think RevMen's comparison to Chess says it all.



Post edited by =3VIL=Kampfer at 6/21/2005 1:44:53 PM

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any organized clan, *xclan, xret, evis, ncg* so on and so on are so organized as are quite a few others, that they will listen and do what they are told because it will be practiced and scrimmed daily.


*never EVER take me serious* I work 50 hours a week, and have kids, its in my nature to sound like a dick :-P

Originally posted by: =3VIL=Kampfer

Originally posted by: Johnny D

Originally posted by: Nomex
I love the Commander mode, but it's useless if your players refuse to communicate with you and tell you what they need!

Notice the title of the thread please.

And that seems to be a problem with a lot of other opinions on this. You're looking at it almost from a pubbing point of view. The commander isn't your leader. Nor are your squad leaders actually leaders. The commander does 4 valuable things, artillary strikes, uav placement, supply crates, and let's you know if there is an advance coming to a flag. I'm going to get my hands dirty and be in the action while calling the shots, using the information I get from everyone, including the commander. While all that's going on, the commander will be in a defensive position away from the majority of the action.

But the Commander can be your leader if you choose to follow his orders. Same goes for the Squad Leader. If you have several Squads, the Commander can issue orders to each Squad Leader and directly influence the outcome. Squad Leaders must also make decisions on the ground using the information and orders given by the Commander, while also sending requests to the Commander. It always seems to me that in pub servers, the winning team has a good Commander and Squads that work with him. I would think that this relationship would benefit 10x in a clan match where members are communicating on TS.

I think RevMen's comparison to Chess says it all.

You're missing my whole point. We're talking about competition, not pubs. My people listen to me, but I'm not going to be the commander. I'm not going to put the strongest players in any type of squad leadership role either, because commanders and squad leaders are the ones that need to hide the most.

Now, when I say commander and squad leader, I'm talking about the in game setup. The clan match command structure is set up the same way, with one central voice calling the shots, and 2 or 3 people designated to lead groups to specific objectives, but those orders are given and executed through teamspeak.

Anyway, we're kind of overarguing a simple point. Basically, don't use what happens in public servers as an idea of how to do things in a match.
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The commander function is neccesary in competition for 1 reason....surveillance...

this person doesn't have to be able to lead the team, just communicate (via ingame chat, ventrilo, teamspeak, or voip) to his teammates enemy positions. He must also know how to utilize supply, arty to support the troops...

this is a support person, quite simple....and an extraordinarily valuable one....

my opinion is supplies and uav/scaning is gonna be the main feature of a commander.
A commander should be out fighting with the other guys on his team, and if his arty and/or sat/uav wagon get destroyed, he should have the correct spot on the map to drop supplies and repair it. no team is gonna leave a guy back at there base to keep camping there equipment, they would be at a disadvantage out on the field if they did.
any team that hides out a commander during the fight to "keep commander tools intact" is going to basically be playing a man down.
Post edited by BFR|Gamble|XreT at 6/21/2005 6:57:33 PM



*never EVER take me serious* I work 50 hours a week, and have kids, its in my nature to sound like a dick :-P

Originally posted by: Lightning1
The commander function is neccesary in competition for 1 reason....surveillance...

this person doesn't have to be able to lead the team, just communicate (via ingame chat, ventrilo, teamspeak, or voip) to his teammates enemy positions. He must also know how to utilize supply, arty to support the troops...

this is a support person, quite simple....and an extraordinarily valuable one....

This was the point I was trying to make. Absolutely the commander will be communicating via TS, but it's still valuable to assign squads tasks via the map so that all squad members can easily see their objective in thier hud. Just makes sense to me. Not to mention the value of uav/scans/supplies/artillery. This role is going to be vital in matches.