NB vs CTF dispute resolution

Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 18:49

So even the video of one of us having a spawn time of 27 seconds on the NB server is "thin" at best? Alright...

DoubleVision

TWL Member

2003-10-07 18:49

go go Keeper!
And I'm not kidding!

Keeper-

BF1942 Game Admin

2003-10-07 18:51

Originally posted by: Kalsim
So even the video of one of us having a spawn time of 27 seconds on the NB server is "thin" at best? Alright...

and this has what to do with the issue at hand?

Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 18:56

This has everything to do with the issue at hand. With a spawn time of 27 seconds, it means there was some toggling going on on the NB server. Under "Rules" for "Battlefield 1942", it specifically says:

Spawn Time: 20 Seconds

Tell me that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

ChITty

TWL Member

2003-10-07 19:18

As you say, it's a strict ruling, but inevitably a good one. Thank you for taking a stand and making the hard decision.

BF1942 League Admin & Desert Combat Guru

2003-10-07 19:19

What does a server setting have to do with cheating? Having the incorrect server settings is wrong and should be corrected before the match starts, but it has nothing to do with THIS issue.
Post edited by Irrenarzt at 10/7/2003 7:20:40 PM

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Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 19:39

Let me explain Mr. Guru. You see, this particular server setting at question may be manipulated in-game by the server's administrators. I believe the command is "admin.spawnWaveTime #", though I may be wrong. So by executing such a command, you may delay the spawn time of the players in that particular server.

Now as for relevance to this issue. Taken directly from the wonderful and educational website of http://www.dictionary.com:

cheat
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats

To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

I believe Keeper- put it very simple when he said, "I will not tolerate ANY team cheating on my ladder for any reason" and "We are very strict in dealing with people who use cheats."

So Irrenarzt, please explain to me how cheating is not relevant to... say... for this instance... cheating.

BF1942 League Admin & Desert Combat Guru

2003-10-07 19:44

Do you know for a FACT that the spawn time was set to a lower time than 27 seconds when you started?

Well I don't...
Post edited by Irrenarzt at 10/7/2003 7:46:35 PM

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FlipSide

BF1942 CTF League Division Coordinator

2003-10-07 19:44

this CTF team has caused so many problems in every match they played and excused us of also cheating im all for this disicion

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-10-07 19:46

That spawn time setting being changed (if it was) would have affected both teams. Just the fact that a team went into a match with hacks enabled and was prepared to use them was wrong in every way IMO.

Kudos to TWL admins for taking a strong stand against cheaters and hackers. The suspicions of cheats and hacks being used is why my team is taking a break from TWL for a bit, its great to see some action being taken on this issue.
Booting these teams and letting the rest know about it is the only weapon we have, use it!
Thx again Admins!

Post edited by Killet at 10/7/2003 7:48:31 PM

magichippo

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-10-07 19:46

Thank-you for your swift and severe action. It's the ONLY way to keep this league going.

And as for spawn times.....God people how long have you been playing this game? It's buggy! It's buggy! It's buggy!

Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 19:47

Originally posted by: Irrenarzt
Do you know for a FACT that the spawn time was set to a lower time than 27 seconds when you started?

Why should I be worried that the spawn time was or was not set at 20 seconds with suuuuuuch a respectable clan as Northern Brigade? Afterall, they arrrrre number one, right?

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-10-07 19:49

The spawn time setting affected both teams, how does that give one an advantage over the other?

Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 19:54

Team uses their hacks to take advantage over the other team, corners other team, increases spawn time, and voila.

Even if a few members of the cheating team died and had to wait 27 seconds to spawn, why would they say anything? They are cheating in the first place.

Mr.G

TWL Member

2003-10-07 19:55

This is a bug. On a lot of server the spawn time is at 15 seconds and I get 20-22. Its just a bug so stop crying at cheating. But EA should fix that.

New TWL clan, Recruiting good Infantry and Tankers.

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-10-07 20:00

I dunno Kalsim, your trapped in your base and kill them they have to wait 27 sec to respawn and get back there, sounds like a good chance to regroup to me. Still doesnt explain a team having hacks on thier comps during a match and turning them on...sorry man, not buying it

Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 20:10

Wow. I'm sorry to say this but it sounds to me that most of you have a diminishing intelligence level. How difficult is this to understand? I try to be professional with my comments but... damn.

Killet, you said, "Still doesnt explain a team having hacks on thier comps during a match and turning them on...sorry man, not buying it." Ok. Now read this slow. Altering the server settings, particularly the spawn time, during a match (or even before for that matter) is considered breaking the rules. Now when you break the rules, what is that called? It's called cheating. By cheating, you have just enforced an element into the game that eliminates the factor of fair play. Hacking uses the same concept as this. When you hack, you break the rules. You cheat. You are not playing fair.

I am not going to explain myself or my reason anymore until a proper reply is made.

Kcg.LesPaul

TWL Member

2003-10-07 20:10

Yeah, especially with all of the Anti-Cheat software you CTF guys have been promoting.. guess it was all a front to hide your own hacks? I'd say you need to prevent yourseleves from hacking before you can work on the rest of the community's hackers *smirk*

Mr.G

TWL Member

2003-10-07 20:12

SORRY if we are not at your INTELLECTUAL level

New TWL clan, Recruiting good Infantry and Tankers.

{CTF} Beurling

TWL Member

2003-10-07 20:12

How very ironic how this situation played through. Hackers are congratulated, and we are put down for standing up to something every gamer should, a fair game. It is nieve of anyone to believe that less than 50% of people out there cheat. Please do not talk about what went on, when you were not there, our evidence was far mroe convincing than "thin", but I'm sorry to say that corruption does indeed run deep within the halls of authority. When our anti cheat software is developed, I'm sorry to say TWL will not be offered it due to their lack of responsibility, and bias towards teams. Have a nice day.

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-10-07 20:13

I understand what your saying, flames are not needed. All Im saying is if they did change the settings yes that was wrong but using hacks is much worse. Are you sure the settings for spawn time were correct when the match started?

Then I must ask the question, why did you have hacks on your comp for BF42 if you werent using them? Everyone knows the rules. Whats up with that?

PS please keep your response "professional" and "proper", Thx
Post edited by Killet at 10/7/2003 8:15:50 PM

BF1942 League Admin & Desert Combat Guru

2003-10-07 20:14

Before you insult peoples intelligence, maybe you should explain how you came to the conclusion that "because someone spawned with a 27 second spawn time means that the spawn time is being toggled by the NB server admin". To me it just sounds like paranoia, because you even admit to not knowing what the time was originally set at.

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FlipSide

BF1942 CTF League Division Coordinator

2003-10-07 20:20

for spawn time change dont u have to reset the map?? just curios

Keeper-

BF1942 Game Admin

2003-10-07 20:27

Originally posted by: {CTF} Beurling
How very ironic how this situation played through. Hackers are congratulated, and we are put down for standing up to something every gamer should, a fair game. It is nieve of anyone to believe that less than 50% of people out there cheat. Please do not talk about what went on, when you were not there, our evidence was far mroe convincing than "thin", but I'm sorry to say that corruption does indeed run deep within the halls of authority. When our anti cheat software is developed, I'm sorry to say TWL will not be offered it due to their lack of responsibility, and bias towards teams. Have a nice day.

I see so I am supposed to take fraps clips from a pub as evidence of an entire team cheating in a match. Over a team that admitted to running hacks to "verify" that another team was cheating.

Which BTW cannot be accomplished unless you are observing that specific player while running the cheats your self. You cannot do it while playing on the other team.

Also I find it odd that you waited until after you lost a map to bring up these revelations. I for one do not want to be in a server with hacks yet you played 3 maps against them before deciding they cheated.

As for us not being able to use your AT tool. I am sorry to hear that but we will continue on our way and deal with the others that are currently working on tools themselves.

Last but not least. If you get your founder to own up to me exactly who the people running the hacks were I will only ban those players and will continue to allow the other CTF players that wish to play on others teams the ability to do so. If not everyone that was in the server will be site banned from TWL.

Keeper
Post edited by Keeper- at 10/7/2003 8:28:00 PM

Banned permanently by DoMiNuS -- Have a nice life. 10/9/03

2003-10-07 20:27

Irrenarzt, read this well. When joining TWL, we, {CTF}, took a nice long look at the rules of TWL and fair play. Seeing as how we trust TWL for placing these rules for a reason, we should trust other teams to place these settings into effect. That's what we did. Now read this even more carefully, because I know you'll need to. {CTF} was playing on NB's server. We can't access their server to modify any settings. However, NB can. Should I explain further?

Mr.G said, "This is a bug. On a lot of server the spawn time is at 15 seconds and I get 20-22. Its just a bug so stop crying at cheating. But EA should fix that." Yes EA should fix that, but I found nothing of EA mentioning this bug. If it's out there, do please tell me.

I'm tired of this. As Beurling so nicely put it, "Hackers are congratulated, and we are put down for standing up to something every gamer should, a fair game."

The PC gaming industry is slowly getting destroyed. Hear of the recent HL2 source code leak? No matter how hard you try to stop cheats, they will alwasy come around. And this is proof. Corruption does indeed grow deep. I am done with PC gaming. See you in Hollywood.

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-10-07 20:30

Originally posted by: |NERV|FlipSide
for spawn time change dont u have to reset the map?? just curios

I get

Error(2) UnAuthorised Method

when I try on my server. Just did

BF1942 League Admin & Desert Combat Guru

2003-10-07 20:34

Originally posted by: Kalsim
Irrenarzt, read this well. When joining TWL, we, {CTF}, took a nice long look at the rules of TWL and fair play. Seeing as how we trust TWL for placing these rules for a reason, we should trust other teams to place these settings into effect. That's what we did. Now read this even more carefully, because I know you'll need to. {CTF} was playing on NB's server. We can't access their server to modify any settings. However, NB can. Should I explain further?

Where was my question answered? I still don't see where you can come to a conclusion that they were toggling server settings during the match. I do see where you say you don't know what it was set at, but that kind of validates my point.

Originally posted by: Kalsim

I'm tired of this. As Beurling so nicely put it, "Hackers are congratulated, and we are put down for standing up to something every gamer should, a fair game."

... but your team did cheat and your team is being punished.

Anyway, we are obviously just running in a bunch of circles...
Post edited by Irrenarzt at 10/7/2003 8:36:04 PM

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Pillbug

TWL Member

2003-10-07 20:35

Originally posted by: Kalsim

Why should I be worried that the spawn time was or was not set at 20 seconds with suuuuuuch a respectable clan as Northern Brigade? Afterall, they arrrrre number one, right?

You know what? This is the most unhealthy attitude to have when discussing cheating. If this sort of thing was said every time a clan took the top spot, the leagues/ladders would crumble.

THO

TWL Member

2003-10-07 20:41

Ok.. how long have you guys been playing BF??

game.serverSpawnTime
game.serverSpawnDelay

Are the two .con settings that affect spawn times. In the ctf config here at TWL, the 2nd one, SpawnDelay is not specified.
On most pubs, they are set to 10 and 5... therefore giving you a spawn time anywhere between 5-15 seconds.

So with the SpawnTime at 20, to get a 27 spawn time in game, the SpawnDelay would need to be set to at least 7. Now if NB merely copied the TWL configs (as I do every once in a while to keep up to date), then when they loaded up for the match, the server simply ran with the SpawnDelay setting it was defaulted to. I'm willing to bet that was 10.

And I definetly agree, having cheats running while playing, for the purpose of "turning them on to catch the other team cheating" is pretty lame. As is accusing someone of changing the spawn times during a match.

We all have our suspicions of who cheats in the game of BF, but that's all they are, suspicions, and using cheats to catch someone cheating in a match is cheating.. lol..