Petition 1.4

I aw this petition on BFC forum....secure RFA is the way not a total lock down of BF


quote from magnus333 at BFCF
"For those of you who dont know, version 1.4 of BF42 will kill the merciless mod, as well as other client side mods. It doesnt have to be this way, if DICE/EA put a little work into it.

Seaming as to how i dont want merciless to die, i have formed this petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/bf42mods/petition.html

My last petition for mobile Arty to be 1 seat was actually reviewed by EA, and they have plans to make it lockable in the future. So there is a point to this petition. Everyone please go spread the link if you want merciless to continue to exist as it does."

There are plenty of positives going to come from the patch than negatives. I will not be signing up to petition. League play should use v1.4 because of the lack of client side mods and those who want to use client side mods can play v1.31.

Agreed. I'm all for this patch if it dramatically reduces cheats/cheat potential.

Screw the MC mods anyway. Newbified additions anyway.

Go stock or go home.

Merciless Creations can eat my ass.


Pure server/client k-thnx-bye.

Do what is best for the community by NOT signing that petition.

EDIT: We should petition the petition
Post edited by [DP]-Irrenarzt at 4/18/2003 10:47:25 PM

To: EA/DICE
We request that version 1.4 of Battlefield 1942 include "Mod secure RFA's" so that secure client side mods like Merciless 1942 from http://www.mercilesscreations.com can still be used.
To quote from Prowlinger:
"There was a solution sent to Dice how to resolve this scenario. This explained the problem, a solution. It involved MOD SECURE RFAs. This allowed each and every modder to compile their own RFA with a security setting. Client side mods can still exist this way! Cheats will not exist this way! Every mod would be secure this way! Dice would only have to release a secure version of their RFA compiler and decompiler for the mod community."

Sorry, but the petition makes no sense. How does this proposed solution stop someone from creating a client side mod where all planes and infantry have neon skins, and the maps have no fog? Someone could just take the "secure compiler" and make this themselves.

The fact of the matter is this: if it's possible to create ANY client-side skin packs/map modifications, then it's possible to make soldiers and vehicles have bright skins, extend the fog on maps, rearrange map geometry to see through walls, etc. The potential for client-side cheats is nearly endless without a quake3 engine style "pure server" function, and I'm glad they've decided to implement it.

If it means that MC will die, then oh well, people will just have to play the stock version of the game. Why does everyone cry a goddamn river when they can't play without their precious historically accurate skins?

Yes, Id much rather do without skin/fog hacks (and whatever else) then have some new skinpack :p

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- indica
TeamWarfare: Battlefield 1942 / Desert Combat Admin

Well I didnt think this would be the reaction I would have gotten from the members of this forum. I remember a point in time when most people on here supported us, but I guess times have changed. EA has other options to prevent cheating than locking everything down. Oh and Blinky and Typo why dont you two come up with something with substance to say before you open your mouth.




|HiFi|Dietrich
Member of the Merciless Creations

Well, die, there are still many of us here that respect your work, I for one really loved the detail you put into and have been looking forward the the next version that was suppoed to have RTR support. (guess that's scraped now, eh? :-\)

I just think that many of us would rather see cheating brought to a halt than worry about making our game look pretty however. Don't think you've lost all support You did a kick ass job, no matter what anyone else might say.
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=NCG=KageKaze
Member, Squad Battlefield 1942
New Century Gamers

Actually we are going to release what we have on version 4.0 here in the next couple of days due to this development.




|HiFi|Dietrich
Member of the Merciless Creations

open your eyes 1.4 might stay cheat free for a little bit, but in the long run theres always going to be someone to figure it out and make a hack. Merciless even had a solution to EA/dice's problem so why not use this instead of taking such drastice measures.

quoted by prowlinger at merciless

"There was a solution sent to Dice how to resolve this scenario. This explained the problem, a solution. It involved MOD SECURE RFAs. This allowed each and every modder to compile their own RFA with a security setting. Client side mods can still exist this way! Cheats will not exist this way! Every mod would be secure this way! Dice would only have to release a secure version of their RFA compiler and decompiler for the mod community. Also they change their 1942 and XPack1 RFA security. All security is secret. Once a modder like Desert Combat has this Secure RFA compiler, they input their secret code and compile their RFAs. Now no other group or person can uncompile their RFAs without this code. Dice can do the EXACT same thing for 1942, Road to Rome and Secret Weapons. The existance of the Merciless 1942 as a client side mod at that level is to be determined but all client side mods would be secure and cheating would not exist... all server side RFAs would be secured and looking for their own security codes."

But ea/dice they took the easy road. Tell people there getting new guns and say NO MORE CHEATING EVER, in a post of bad news and watch the suckers come streaming in.

So if ea/dice do go through with this i guess we all lose.

whoops prowlinger qoute was already posted. Lets see if anyone has a fit
Post edited by Rancid_Meat at 4/19/2003 2:37:18 AM

If by "we all lose" you mean "the people who want different skins lose".

Also, I've read the proposed solution many times, and I still fail to see how it addresses the problem at all. Secure RFAs wont change a thing... anyone can get those RFA tools and compile their own client-side cheat skins. And if they mean to secure the stock RFAs that ship with the game, wont that break the MC skins anyway?

Could someone explain to me how DICE could allow custom client-side skins but not allow cheat skins? There is simply no way: a computer program cannot tell the difference between an "honest" custom skin and a "cheat" custom skin. As DICE said, they considered ways to allow it, but they could not find any way to do it without opening up other vulnerabilities.

anything that prevents cheating is ok in my book. I like Merc, but i see this as a step in the right direction in the prevention of cheating.

Now if they could add demoing ! that would be great

god wrote: If by "we all lose" you mean "the people who want different skins lose".

No i meant as i said before there is always going to be cheating, they can try and make this patch as secure as possible someone will hack it. Whats the point of shuting down client side mods when in the long run cheating will never die.

you see thats how we all lose

you think you would petition them to fix the stg and bar...
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d.Maherdogg

http://demise.visionxtreme.net
#demise (gamesnet)
204.210.247.48

stock is the only way to play
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Originally posted by: Rancid_Meat

Whats the point of shuting down client side mods when in the long run cheating will never die.

Do you lock your doors? Whats the point? Someone can still break in.


Post edited by BigBrown at 4/19/2003 10:50:38 AM

It's pretty sad when things come to this. I can't understand why someone would want to cheat in a video game. It makes no sense at all. What pleasure does someone get from winning in a game that they cheat at.

I guess there are people out there who have such low self-confidence, such low morals, that they must do better no matter what so they feel accepted in some way.


Bring That Shit On

"Screw the MC mods anyway. Newbified additions anyway."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? People who like historical realism and nice textures are noobs.

Nice logic man.

It is a sad day when we'll lose the awesome contributions of the kind of quality seen in the MC mods.

However,

As long as mods like DC can still be played, I'm all for doing everything possible to prevent cheating.

If 1.4 will stop of the cheats like, no recoil, no fog and perma-sonar then I'm all for it. Yeah, I know.. "the cheaters will still cheat, find a way and continue". But, something like this will prevent 'casual' cheaters - those people who cheat only because the cheats are readily available.

I'm all for keeping the honest people honest.

Yeah join Blinky's clan...seems its full of mature people.




|HiFi|Dietrich
Member of the Merciless Creations

i am completly for and support EA's desicion about 1.4

sure, merciless is nice, but the reason we cant have thatis because it makes adding cheats soo easy..

the best way to eliminate cheats, is to eliminate client side mods. sorry if this ruins some good mods, but IMO, i would trade a few good mods to get a cheat free game anyday

Dietrich,
The Merc Mod was one of the best there is. I feel like the majority here and think that what is best for the community is to lock it down. That is to disallow client side mods of any type. I played Mech 4 for a long time and it was buggy but not hacked in any way. This is due to the fact that the server held everything. It wasn't until Microshaft allowed CyberWhore more freedom that the hacks started coming out. It at that point helped to kill that game for the most part.

Is there anyway that your mods could be made Server side? I would assume that would be more trouble than it is worth because then you'd have to have dedicated servers just to run that mod. All and all I have to say you guys have done a fantastic job on you client side mod. A lot of folks will hate to see it go. I know in my group there are 3 or 4 guys that really like what you've done. It would be nice if Dice would offer you something for your work. MAybe that is what the petition should be from the community. I know teh majority here would back you on that. Have EA/Dice incorparate your work into a future patch.

Just a thought.

_Grey_Ghost
THE TEXAS CONNECTION
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

yes blinky's clan is chock full o intelligent people. smart enough to not bother modding a game and then bitching that the publisher took steps to protect those of us who prefer to actually play the game rather than watch pretty pink stealth fighters and hi poly asian gentlemen throwing mountain dew grenades at me.

i'd rather lose MC than keep it and have people run around with dayglo models.
-----------
d.Maherdogg

http://demise.visionxtreme.net
#demise (gamesnet)
204.210.247.48

Couldn't MC become a server side MOD for the History buffs to play?

Hell as long as it changed nothing but skins you could even agree to play TWL matches using it with other clans that agree.

"Sorry Dietrich but it looks like the comminuty is speaking as more of a whole for the lockdown instead of against it."

if u only knew how many people skip all the polls and go straight to downloads....

im with most others here who say "no cheats rather than a pretty game" as for blinky's "join a clan" post, no offense but a couple extra letters in someone's name wont change an opinion too much =P

Everyone keeps bitching about MC here... what about DC? With all the new custom models, it would be damn near impossible to make this a totally server-side mod.

Admittedly, I say this without any knowledge of MC or what it does/can do for a server. However, it would seem to me that it and DC aren't too far apart in the "screwed" bin.

As a programmer, I can tell you this: programmers are lazy. We always go for the "good enough" solutions. This is exactly what Dice is doing now: locking out all mods is sufficient to stop cheating. If they were to impliment a REAL security measure, they could make all this bitching, moaning, and yammering go away. However, I'm too tired and lazy and unversed in the specifics of BF code to try to come up with a solution (which would be ultimatly overlooked by anyone with any real decision-making power) myself, so I'll just leave that particular problem to people with the knowledge, drive, and caffien to do it themselves. Suffice to say, this is just code, so there *IS* a way.

It's different. DC is a total conversion, MC just changes textures and sounds.

Originally posted by: ApokalypseNow

Everyone keeps bitching about MC here... what about DC? With all the new custom models, it would be damn near impossible to make this a totally server-side mod.

Admittedly, I say this without any knowledge of MC or what it does/can do for a server. However, it would seem to me that it and DC aren't too far apart in the "screwed" bin.

As a programmer, I can tell you this: programmers are lazy. We always go for the "good enough" solutions. This is exactly what Dice is doing now: locking out all mods is sufficient to stop cheating. If they were to impliment a REAL security measure, they could make all this bitching, moaning, and yammering go away. However, I'm too tired and lazy and unversed in the specifics of BF code to try to come up with a solution (which would be ultimatly overlooked by anyone with any real decision-making power) myself, so I'll just leave that particular problem to people with the knowledge, drive, and caffien to do it themselves. Suffice to say, this is just code, so there *IS* a way.

Check again dude. DC is on the community update as how to make a mod because it is server side.

This is from Andreas Fredriksson one of the DICE developers now heading up the Linux server development.

"Hi Jon, and others with questions regarding client side mods.

I can't really see what this has to do with the linux server..

But anyway, there will be a server-side setting to block
or accept clients with modified data; we just haven't announced it. So if the server allows it, you can play with Merciless and other client side mods, but I imagine a lot of server administrators will be happy now that they can also disallow these kinds of mods for tournaments etc.

// Andreas"

I stand happily corrected. w00t!

If it means that MC will die, then oh well, people will just have to play the stock version of the game. Why does everyone cry a goddamn river when they can't play without their precious historically accurate skins?

Maybe because the stock version of the game is completely ghey, forget the skins, any American company who removes a flag because we live in a repressed spineless society who cant face the past is pitiful. I'll miss Merciless, they did great work, and it was a fine addition that made a great game better.

but wouldn't you be kicked out of "pure" tournament servers for having merciless skins to play in pubs that allow them?

Since Merciless doesn't 'overwirte' any skins, probably not. It'll probably just load the default textures and crosshairs.

if you want a petition, get EA to make the merciless pack a part of the game. I wouldn't sign this petition, it defeats the purpose of the patch and allows cheats.