My take on 1.31 - after playing a bit

1. AA does almost no dammage to planes any longer. You can fire at it all day and barely scratch the paint

2. The machine gun on top of the tanks can kill a plane in 3 hits. It's amazing. 3 little hits and your down.

So far it seems to be way off balance in these two areas at least.

Zeph

The patch is fine.
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.:TFS:. FeAr [M10] {Insert your name here}

i agree

fear, as a tanker, would say that
Post edited by Maherdogg at 3/8/2003 2:37:40 AM

-----------
d.Maherdogg

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Maybe I'm way off track here, but IMO AA "should be" > Machine gun against planes. At least that is how I would describe an Anti-Aircraft gun.

Yes, that was dripping with sarcasm.

We have been testing it round the clock and have found it to be smooth and actually shot down a few planes and didn't notice any problems or abnormalties with the AA or Machine Gun.

of course many factors come into play ..connection..Server..opponents connection..latency ..etc,etc.

i was just passing by and saw the post and thought I'd pass that along

See ya soon!
Grassy (WD)
C0-Commander Wild-Diamonds

Well maybe there's a server setting somewhere that I have wrong? Something like giving the machine gun 300% damage and the AA 2%? I had a couple of my clan members try it and they came to the same conclusion.

Zeph

it could be that you weren't getting direct hits on the planes which might only marginally injury the plane or not at all. i'd love to see the planes get jostled by the AA if it exploded near them but not close enough to injury the plane.



Teamwarfare BF1942 League: American Conference Coordinator
Cabal Kabob: Gheying it up at #ckb on irc.gamesnet.com.

lets quit kidding ourselves. Dice took something that wasnt broken and... (insert opinion here)

btw, i sent an email to Dice describing what an "anti-air gun" means by definition, and a few 'facts' about its effectiveness based on actual history, cuz i dont think these clowns have a clue what theyre doing (or have done) with the AA gun, or even what it is by nature. (of course skilled pilots are still blowing their loads).

Agreed, I find no issue with AA guns, I've shot down quite a few planes with 1.3 and 1.31, so I really don't see the problem. you just gotta lead them (maybe more than you think)
---------------------

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Member, Squad Battlefield 1942
New Century Gamers

1.2 4ever

Machine guns on APC's can take down a plane in one pass, especially when they are coming straight at you. I couldn't believe how effective the MG was when I played last night and thought it was a fluke till I came here. LOL. The AA seemed the same as before the patch though. Dunno... Overall, I'm getting used to the 1.3x patch.




Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Originally posted by: Sosha

1.2 4ever

This had to be one of the dumbest posts I have seen in this forum in a long time. Hell while you're at it why don't you just call them and tell them to roll the game back to 1.2 becuase it is so damn great and no need to further fix problems.

I don't see a big problem with the AA, but iagree that machine guns are WAY TO GOOD at taking down planes...

i mean, i was flying in wake island towards the aircraft carrier and one of the transport boats (i was flying pretty damn high) shot me down in a few bullets....IT WAS A FREAKY TINY LITTLE BOAT and yet it hit me and blew me up in a matter of seconds.

well if you think about how many hundreds of bullets per minute a machine gun should be spewing into the air at any given time, it's not really a surprise that they are effective against a plane. if anything, they are probably unpowered.
Post edited by xeno22 at 3/8/2003 2:34:42 PM




Teamwarfare BF1942 League: American Conference Coordinator
Cabal Kabob: Gheying it up at #ckb on irc.gamesnet.com.

I honestly dont know what was wrong with 1.2 that they had to make a 1.3 patch. Except for fixing it where pilots would not get shot out of planes before plane blew up. Everything else seemed fine.

Never thought i would agree with Sosha, but 1.2 4Ever seems good to me =P

Dice should roll back to 1.2.

I think the machine gun is the exact same as before, but with the AA guns being weaker ppl have reverted to the use of machine guns since its now more effective. And you can still take out planes with AA gun, with one pass I can get a plane smoking and sometimes take him out, but its not like the easy kills when 1.2 is out.

Secondly, I think with the AA guns being weaker makes dog fighting more valuable.

all I know is that at the current rate dice/ea is going, just logging onto a server will get you an automatic kill, and any additional kills will take no more than a left-click.

dogfighting doesn't need to be more valuable. The air already owns most matches. There is suppose to be some kind of balance between ground and air. The AA guns are suppose to be that balance.

Kharkov is all about holding the middle flag because it has the only AAs in the map. 1.31 makes the middle flag less useful because now it is more valuable to use your halftruck/tank. This does not mean that the machine gun is overpowered (it is the same) it means that those giant stationary cannons that were suppose to blow planes out of the sky are now nerfed.

AAs need about a 30% increase in damage.

dont get me wrong I think its dumb that the AA are so weak, but at the same time being a pilot on 1.2 patch is tough with the planes getting shot down hella easy. I think if they make the AA gun damage somewhere in between what the 1.31 patch has and the 1.2 patch it would solve this whole problem.

Is it just me or are the stg44s a lot less powerful than they used to be?

well I'd love to give my opinion.. but considering I have a bad stick of RAM.. and BF crashes on startup.. I can't say shit. >:[

I think EA/Dice are a bunch of pilots w/ the direction these patches have been going.



T2: jobless
BF 1942: Doolittle Raiders-=DLR=Evil Napkin *Co-Founder & Captain
RvS: *Retired
Planetside: Doolittle Raiders - Evil Napkin

And now we begin to see the results of people playing on the 1.2 patch, after the 1.3 patch is released. Sorry guys AA guns and MG were made useless against planes in 1.3. Planes could dominate any map they were on, and there was noting anyone on the ground could do about it. 1.31, uped the mg damage against planes, but didint seem to up the aa gun damage. So now you guys are just starting to get a tatse of the problems of 1.3, and dont know how everyone else dealt with it.1.31 merely made the planes so they wernt the end all weapon of the game. Remember, a skilled pilot can still do what he needs to do, remember it is important who uses a vehicle, he needs to be good in that vehicle to be effective against other guys that are good in their vehicles.

LOL I think they dont have a clue at how to balance the game. Maybe they cant figure out whether they want it to be noob friendly, or whether they want it more suited to those that know how to play. It seems as if they have elected the noob path.

noobs suxzor

I noticed this when I was browsing EA's BF1942 forums. Some guy said he looked at some of the con files and noticed some changes regarding AA/MG damage to planes. Thought it might be of some interest. Here's the post:

erich666, a BF1942 message board member, responeded to my post about the planes being easlier to knock down. He was able to confirm my observations, and give us the numbers. Here is the post.

Thanks for noticing this, FMJ1G! Yep, you're right - things have changed. Here's the summary:


Numbers are in hitpoints. Planes have this many hitpoints:


B109, Corsair, Mustang, Spitfire, Yak9, Zero: 100
AichiVal, B110, Mosquito, SBD, Stuka: 130
B17: 450


I'm thinking that Flak gun splash damage is based on the plane's material, which is always given as 60. The changes to Flak:


With 1.3: 17.5 splash damage, with 1.31: 20 splash damage


So flak's a bit more powerful for near-misses (direct hit damage has not changed).


For these machine guns: Browning, SBD, B17


Used to do 10.5 to engines, now does 14
Used to do 7 to wings, now does 14
Used to do 5.6 to tails, now does 7


So it's not so critical to shoot at the engine any more.


For the M42 machine gun:


Used to do 6 to engines, now does 10
Used to do 4 to wings, now does 10
Used to do 3.5 to tail, now does 5


At least, that's what the .con files tell me. Actually, plane damage location varies from plane to plane a bit. If you deeply care, check out http://faq.bf42.com/mod/weapongr id.html


I've updated this file with 1.31 results. Unfortunately, the place I put them (at this site's server, in fact) is not letting me login right now and upload it, so if you go there, note that it's the 1.3 values. I've put a note on the new page, at the top, showing that the values (will be) for 1.31.

why do they keep re-inventing the damn wheel. they keep changing the game so much every patch. rather than fixing a problem they have to change the game. Leave well enough alone. im in agreement,1.2 was perfect with the exception of shooting the pilots out of the cockpit. jeeze they have to keep changing the weapon strengths everywhere and have it all outta whack now if you ask me. No way should a gun on top of a tank cut a plane in half in 1 pass.

Originally posted by: Confuzed

No way should a gun on top of a tank cut a plane in half in 1 pass.

Actually it was entirely possible for just that to happen. Although I wasn't unhappy with the balance of 1.2, I hated the way 1.3 made even n00b pilots unstoppable. The good pilots should be able to stay alive even with damage done to the planes increased. It's only helping the n00bs to make the planes harder to destroy.



Darwin's theories also apply to the digital world.

http://www.kindread.com

well, i take it you dont fly much, but lets reverse the situation and say the machine guns will destroy a tank in no time flat. my response is well, a skilled tank driver will still do fine its only helping the noobs by making it harder to kill the tanks. its called an even balance, and it seems way outta wack now. apparently the people posted above feel the same way. as far as 1.3 i agree, just an even balance would be nice is all im saying.
Post edited by Confuzed at 3/10/2003 1:41:47 AM

Im not sure I understand some of the arguments here. Zephyre was making a valid if exaggerated point, others saying AA is the basically the same now is ridiculous. It along with the hand MGs damage was reduced by 50%. That is a significant decrease. I noticed the lessed effectiveness right away. I got better after a while and do see some improvement now, but its not even comparible.

You can have a plane come in now, straight at you, no lead, and hit him straight on over and over and you barely get a smoke. Its almost impossilbe to get kills now too, pilots always have a chance to jump out. Coral sea sucks now b/c of it. A good pilot before knew how to come in with attack runs that kept him mostly clear of AA, now any chump can fly a whole round and not get shot down unless he crashes.


==================================================================
Battlefield 1942(tm) v1.3
Read Me File
December 17, 2003
==================================================================

Patch 1.3
==================================================================

CLIENT FIXES

#Gameplay tweaks
-damage to airplanes from the following has been decreased by 50%:
*BAR
*StG44
*Thompson
*MP40
*AA GUNS

Originally posted by: SHS- Fenix

Secondly, I think with the AA guns being weaker makes dog fighting more valuable.

I agree, but the problem is you dont want dog fighting in the game. Dogfighting has nothing to do with a team based game. Two idiots running around shooting each other, while bombers and tanks roam free to stomp the ground troops trying to take flags. Fighters should hit bombers, tanks or infantry, support the ground troops.

yep true, but a good dog fighter can and will remove any planes out of the air which will ease the fear of being bombed.

...just bring on the nOObs!

I agree to a point IC, but in play yesteday i had a plane flying STRAIGHT towards my AA, and i mean straight...SO there is no aim adjustment to be used here, and it took about 6 shots to get him down, where as before 3 shots like that from the AA woulda destroyed him...I mean your basically shooting right at his engine, and in all seriousness a reall AA gun in that situation woulda smoked the plane in one shot...Im an avid AA guy, ive loved shooting down planes since the demo...I personally think, being an Avid AA guy myself, that they changed the damage just a tad too much to make it more noob flyer friendly... I mean really how can a browning whos shells dont explode on impact shoot down a plane faster then a AA gun with explosive shells hitting it...But wit all patches you get good and bad changes, and have to learn to adept to them... So i wont bitch about it, just try to figure out new ways to go about things...Id personally like to see them AX planes all together...They just can turn the tide, or make maps lopsided as all hell in an instant...Or maybe limit the number of times planes spawn in a match...Like maybe make the planes only spawm 5 times the whole map...But eh, everyone wants something different...So lets just play and have some fun wit what we got...


Save a tree, Eat a BEAVER...!

Zarathustra, you dont understand the argument because your a patch behind
Patch 1.3
==================================================================

CLIENT FIXES

#Gameplay tweaks
-damage to airplanes from the following has been decreased by 50%:
*BAR
*StG44
*Thompson
*MP40
*AA GUNS

were on 1.31 now check the stats for that

Frag em-

In real life a tank would get destroyed in one hit from another tank.

Originally posted by: Confuzed

Zarathustra, you dont understand the argument because your a patch behind
Patch 1.3
==================================================================

CLIENT FIXES

#Gameplay tweaks
-damage to airplanes from the following has been decreased by 50%:
*BAR
*StG44
*Thompson
*MP40
*AA GUNS

were on 1.31 now check the stats for that

There is nothing in the 1.31 read me to state damage values have been altered further than 1.3. If you have information i dont have please post it.

Originally posted by: Iced Guardian

I think you guys need to either just start using, or learn how to use the AA guns. According to the stats posted it only takes 5 - 7 hits (splash damage, not even direct hits!) to take down a plane (the exception being the B17).

The AA guns have a decent rate of fire, and you shouldn't have a problem tearing up noobs, and even good pilots. They're at least not gonna be so bold after you hit them a few times, if that's all you can manage.

I've had no problems against planes in the new patch, and I don't see where all this complaining is coming from. I think this change is good, and that the complaining is coming from people that just don't want to take the time to run to an AA gun.

A lot of asssumptions there. Dont always assume that because you see things a certain way, it must mean others are inadequate or incapable of performing in the same manner as yourself. Like frag, i've played the game since the first day the demo came out, way too much probably, about 1 month before 1.3 came out I really got into AAs, mostly because i was bored with tanks and ground troops. So yes, i understand them, i know how to use them, i know with the new patch you have to lead more, blah blah blah.

Now, maybe some people are exaggerating here a bit, saying the AAs dont do anything, thats not true, I can take down a plane with an AA, about 1/2 as fast as it used to take me (50% damage reduction), with a slightly higher rate of fire, so maybe 33% reduction. So the argument is not can planes be shot down with AA, but how fast and effectively can they be shot down.

If you play on pub servers, and you dont see that pilots completely dominate certain boards now, you're blind. Its just not as fun to play AA anymore, their effectiveness on the battlefield is negligible, period.
Post edited by Zarathustra at 3/10/2003 1:21:59 PM

Originally posted by: T-Dub

Frag em-

In real life a tank would get destroyed in one hit from another tank.

Not true at all. Check your WW2 history and you will see German King Tigers being pretty much invulnerable to enemy tank rounds because of their thick armor.

Changes going from version 1.3 to 1.31: flak splash damage is 1.14x higher and machineguns are 1.5x to 2.5x more effective.

Thats a link if you want to see the source.
Post edited by Choad Warrior at 3/10/2003 1:43:36 PM