5v5 Infantry League proposed changes - Everyone READ

After speaking with many of you in the league about the unbalanced issues of the Thompson vs. MP40 and the amount of nade spamming, I've decided to propose some changes for match play in this league.

RebelAce (aka k3 Watermelon) has provided me info on what and what's not feasible in terms of modding maps for better competition. This issue is still in its infancy, and I'll have to get Grassy's approval for the issues, but here's what I'm thinking:

1) Lowering clip count on the Thompson SMG to 20 bullets

2) Grenades:
i- 1 nade per death, no reloads
0R
ii- 50% less splash damage

3) Changing Bocage Pro_inf. 2 New flags to be added (Windmill+South Bridge) that are cappable, while both axis and allied main bridges are uncappable. This would create much less of a bottleneck in terms of nade spammage once either team acquired the sawmill.

4) Slightly increasing the light level on Berlin Midnight

This would all be available as a install file for both server and client side and would not affect leads/lag issues.

This is all after hearing your suggestions over the pre-season and the current season so far. I do NOT want to change the basic awesome infantry tactics in BF42, I just want to make it more competition friendly. In my opinion, I want to make the infantry about strafing skill, accuracy, positionning, teamwork and strategy. Not nade spamming.

Give me your input.

ClanBR1.net

1) Keep Clip the same

2) Grenades:
50% less splash damage(sounds good)

3) Changing Bocage Pro_inf.
Sounds good, maybe it should be tested with match play/scrims

4) Slightly increasing the light level on Berlin Midnight

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If it is decided to put a flag inside the windmill, I would like to propose taking out the ammo boxes also. That way engineers couldn't sit up on the top floor expacking anyone who enters the windmill for the entire round.

Post edited by Jell0 at 12/30/2004 5:06:51 PM

You know, i have to admit i do enjoy playing on servers like ghetto berlin and stuff, but when it comes right down to it in a match, both teams have the same advantage and the same chance to utilize each advantage on either side, just keep it straight up like it is, i especially dont want to download anything else. And if we were in need to dl something im sure SB would probably just drop it as a whole, im sick of this damn mods and bs. Everyone gets to be allies at some point or another.

Guns - Do NOT mess with gun issues, aside from the Assault guns, they are one of the few remaining things that are actually fairly well balanced in this game. Thompson better than MP40? I think it really depends on what situation youre in. In a close quarters map like Caen, its bound to oust the MP40 more often than not, but at any distance at all the MP40 owns it. I hear people hate the MP18 as well, but its actually one of the more powerful guns and I dont mind it at all. Please please please do NOT mess with gun balances.

Grenades - omfg option 1 plskthnx. Firstly, let me just say this to those that claim theyre part of the game and to get used to it: I agree with you! Grenades ARE part of the game! They are an integral part of helping to take down tanks, pinning enemy positions while waiting for reinforcements or trying to hold off a spawn wave. But that is in NORMAL BF, when you actually HAVE armor that can support you and more than 4 teammates to help you. Perhaps it really is just me, but I tend to think that in an INFANTRY only league, with only 5 people per team, that the action should be focused on ......... infantry??

Let me just bullet point the pros and cons of this change:

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Change - only 1 grenade per spawn, no reloads

PROS:

- would demand that people conserve their grenades for emergencies, reducing nade spam drastically and changing the focus of the game to gun fighting

- would actually create a more strategic use for grenades, as teams would want to maybe shift their positioning depending on who has grenades left

- would offer more opportunities for comebacks and turnarounds in matches, making games more exciting and better contested

CONS:

- People would have less grenades to spam. This would drastically change the way matches are played on (for example) Berlin. Im not really sure if this is a con or not, but some people may see it as one

- People would no longer be able to sit in ammo crate areas and hold large areas down by themselves (for example - Stalingrad). Again, is this a con?

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One thing I might actually like to see would be removing all ammo crates entirely. Yeah, you wouldnt be able get more ammo for YOUR gun, but you would still be able to pick up other people's guns and I think that would actually be better, since it would make people play more strategically and be smarter during all their running 'n gunning.

Bocage - Umm... I know bocage is a terrible nade spam, but if we actually reduced grenades to 1 per person, I think that this would solve itself. Bocage is actually a cool map for infantry if you play without grenades, so Im inclined to think that if we dropped the grenades we could leave it as is and it would be fine.

Berlin Midnight - I actually like it the way it is. Stealth doesnt really exist in this game as it is, what with enemy tags and everything being so damned light. It is, afterall, called Berlin MIDNIGHT. I like it dark, leaves opportunities for sneaky bastidges to sneak around.

Herb - Im just baffled by that opinion. Surely you cannot believe that this game cannot be improved?? BF is HORRIBLY unbalanced in many ways. Because of this (and other things too; EA, lag, the community) it makes it very frustrating to play at times. Ill admit, it is still, BAR NONE, the best multiplayer game out there, but we should still try to improve it. Youre right, everyone gets a chance to play both sides (which is why I dont think we should mess with the guns). And youre also right in that both sides get equal advantages to pin the other in a nade spam, but I fail to see how this is enjoyable for either side... I hate just chucking nades at a bridge, and Im sure the people getting constantly killed by them do as well. Being unwilling to even consider a change for the better is just being stubborn IMO, and it is attitudes like that which are killing the community. It isnt that hard to download a small mod.exe, and so long as youre not the one doing the work to make it why do you care? Are you really so lazy that you cant take the 5 minutes required to run and install it?

Im really NOT trying to just outright flame you here, Im just frustrated by people that have taken this view in the past and consistantly failed to provide a suitable reasoning for doing so.

The only change I would like to see is 50% less splash damage on the grenades, everything else is fine the way it is.

I also think bocage has no place in 5v5 infantry. Step, have you considered removing bocage and replacing it with a different map, maybe King of the Hill?
Post edited by CheshireCat1 at 12/30/2004 5:56:43 PM

1 nade is awesome, but don't change the splash, that is too drastic to gameplay.

Originally posted by: Burt_Flaxton
1 nade is awesome, but don't change the splash, that is too drastic to gameplay.

^^

Leave everything else the same, except for that.

1) Changing Thompson- Keep it how it isDon't lower the clip, it runs out fast enough. It's easy to beat with an mp40 long distance and even short distance. Aim for the head <_<

2) Changing Grenades: 1 nade per death, no reloads <-- my choice

3) Changing Bocage Pro_inf.- sounds great so I don't have to here taco complain about the map. Just kidding

4) Slightly increasing the light level on Berlin Midnight- Uhhh.. No. It's midnight for crise sake.

to step

Post edited by HellRåzor at 12/30/2004 6:31:46 PM


xfire: hellrazor4life

1) Changing Thompson- Don't mess with it. The guns are fine

2) Changing Grenades- 1 nade per death is a really good idea

3) Changing Bocage Pro_inf- Leave the map how it is

4) Increasing light on Berlin Midnight- Good idea

Originally posted by: CheshireCat1
Step, have you considered removing bocage and replacing it with a different map, maybe King of the Hill?

Die?

xfire: hellrazor4life

It's amazing how different people have different views

Grenades should definately be changed.
Thompson will prolly stay the same.
Berlin Midnight remains to be seen.

As for Bocage Cheshire, just think about it:

1) Both Teams start out at their respective bridge flags
2) Windmill becomes a cappable flag
3) Sawmill stays the same (possibly with ammobox removed)
4) South bridge becomes a cappable flag

From an infantry point of view, it sounds awesome.

ClanBR1.net

Id rather see 1 nade per person than 50% less splash. 50% less splash = CS:S.
Personally I'd rather see nothing beside bocage changed.
Post edited by [HOT] Claire Danes at 12/30/2004 7:28:40 PM

__________________

I'm for eliminating the medic class and just going all out Assault. Who's with me?

Originally posted by: ApeofDooM
I'm for eliminating the medic class and just going all out Assault. Who's with me?

only if the type 99 got into the mix.
They could nerf the medpack a bit to encourage some variety.
I think another thing that should be added is some pacific infantry. It would be really cool to see how the type 5 and garand work in 5v5.
Post edited by [HOT] Claire Danes at 12/30/2004 7:31:57 PM

__________________

Honestly the more I think about it these changes are all nice but if you ever want to actually improve the quality of infantry matches you will...

TURN OFF PUNKBUSTER!

edit: bocage does sound pretty hot step
Post edited by CheshireCat1 at 12/30/2004 7:55:01 PM

^^^
__________________

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is the main source of trouble in infantry play for BF, but Grassy loves pb, so I doubt we'll be saying goodbye to it any time soon.

Additionally, changing the medpack healing rate so that it heals yourself at 33% - 50%, and others at the same or improved rate, was an idea I suggested to BFPro a while ago, but when it was proposed in the NBFL it met with such backlash that I think they scrapped it. Hoppers 'n healers love their medpack :/

The thompson dominates the mp40 by far, even on "long range" maps such as battleaxe the thompson wins out by over 100 tickets in most cases if two decent teams are matched. However, if you guys are so against it being changed then I will leave it alone.

As for nades with 50% damage, I think this will prevent people from using grenades as a primary weapon, maybe they'll start using it as backup. At any rate, before anything is implimented it will be tested thoroughly.

Oh definately.

These changes will not be implemented right away of course, I want hardcore testing.

ClanBR1.net

Iwo Jima 5v5 engineer rifles?

Originally posted by: -Rapture-
Iwo Jima 5v5 engineer rifles?

^this guy clearly for admin

xfire: hellrazor4life

don't change guns.

move nade count to 1 nade for classes. this is how it should be for the whole bfpro mod...bf1942 since it was made actually.

bocage is fine. especially if nade count is reduced.

no comment

The Bocage changes sound great. Doesn't sound like messing with the guns is at all a good idea.

Nades, 2 or 3 per spawn, no reload. One only? I like my nades too much.

The problem I see with not reloading nades is that I've never seen a server where ammo boxes reload one thing but not the other, not a modder, but it might be tricky.

if you change the guns it would fuk with the heads of the people who use the 5v5 for practice and play in the big leagues, so i vote no changes.


p.s. speaking of not fare watermelon has a 12 ping in the ghetto and it make him look like he has skillz so i vote for him to be banned from the ghetto till he moves to canada!

Originally posted by: KatieHolmes
The problem I see with not reloading nades is that I've never seen a server where ammo boxes reload one thing but not the other, not a modder, but it might be tricky.

Thats why I think we should just take out ammo boxes entirely

Originally posted by: Sháke

Thats why I think we should just take out ammo boxes entirely

TRue^ :rockondude:

xfire: hellrazor4life

Originally posted by: -methane-
if you change the guns it would fuk with the heads of the people who use the 5v5 for practice and play in the big leagues, so i vote no changes.


p.s. speaking of not fare watermelon has a 12 ping in the ghetto and it make him look like he has skillz so i vote for him to be banned from the ghetto till he moves to canada!

lol methane

1v1 on a server we ping the same anytime

As for the ammo boxes, everything CAN be changed in a mod, how is more the question, and the answer usually just takes time.

I like Shake's idea of no ammo boxes and 1 grenade.

Originally posted by: KatieHolmes
The problem I see with not reloading nades is that I've never seen a server where ammo boxes reload one thing but not the other, not a modder, but it might be tricky.

Katie, check out Arcor Arena 9 - Stalin no Tanks (212.144.3.209). I believe it's in Europe so it's absolute crap pingwise but they do have it set to 3 nades per spawn with no replenishing from ammo crates. The crates still replenish everything else though.

As far as Stepside's propositions:

(1) The Thompson - Leave it unchanged. We all love it just the way it is. Everyone gets to play with it at least once.

(2) Grenades - Try and mod the map to Arcor's setting if possible, with the 3 (or maybe even 2) grenades per spawn with no ammo crate replenishment for grenades only.

(3) Bocage Pro Inf - Cool idea but I think we should leave this unchanged. It would be interesting to see this map combined with (2).

(4) Berlin Midnight - I think we should also leave this unchanged. It is the only dark map we play which gives it that unique challenge.

Thanks to Stepside for making some dope propositions - what a great admin.

Originally posted by: k3|Rebel

Originally posted by: -methane-
if you change the guns it would fuk with the heads of the people who use the 5v5 for practice and play in the big leagues, so i vote no changes.


p.s. speaking of not fare watermelon has a 12 ping in the ghetto and it make him look like he has skillz so i vote for him to be banned from the ghetto till he moves to canada!

lol methane

1v1 on a server we ping the same anytime

As for the ammo boxes, everything CAN be changed in a mod, how is more the question, and the answer usually just takes time.

im me my xfire is methane412 we will see. and no this is not a who has a bigger e-penis i am just saying he only get the good scores because of his ping.
Post edited by -methane- at 1/2/2005 6:21:29 PM

1) Do not make changes to ANY medic gun.
What DOES need to be done is the assault guns need to be like they were in 1.1. This would do 2 things: Balance medic, and make people use assault. (type 99 is same as bar 1.1, so keep it the same)

2)1 grenade. 3X.50 grenades = 1.5 grenades. If one decides to use 1 grenade, the bfpro config for grenade should be lowered a tad. 4 seconds probably

3)Sounds great

4)Let there be light, pls