Mountain Ambush: TWL rules needs to be changed

I have for a long time had a small problem with one specific rule for the map Mountain Ambush when playing a TWL game. Specifically it’s this line I got a problem with: “In the case of Mountain Ambush, Ambush is considered Assault and Escort is considered Defense.”

We (Rogers Rangers) have now played quite a few games on this map without any problems, as both teams could see that there is no reason why ambush could be mistaken for assault. I do however know about squads that had some problems with other squads, coz they insisted on playing by the book (witch is good in all other cases).

Now you could come up with a argue that both teams could be defense or assault. But a quick look at the Americas Army website under missions, where you can see all the maps, should convince the TWL admins to change that rule.

As you can’t make a direct link to the Mountain Ambush map, I have taken the liberty to put the map online on our website (http://www.rogers-rangers.com/mountain_ambush.gif). If this map don’t give the TWL admins a clear indication that Escort is Assault, then not even a Spanish inquisition would do so .

Please note that I’m not trying to flame anyone for making this mistake (as I see it), just trying to get you guys to fix the mistake .



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=RR=Raist[RBS]
Rogers Rangers | Platoon Leader 1st Platoon
raist@rogers-rangers.com | http://www.rogers-rangers.com

I agree that escort fills all the qualifications of assault and ambush fills all the qualifications of defense but not vice versa, but it is kinda nitpicking, don't you think? I mean, does it really matter who starts on what side?

Nope, sorry. thjats from Prima's Strategy guide. No where does AA list an assault or defense for MA, only Ambush and Escort.

psicotic1
Teamwarfare Senior Operations Staff

Originally posted by: Hnefi

I agree that escort fills all the qualifications of assault and ambush fills all the qualifications of defense but not vice versa, but it is kinda nitpicking, don't you think? I mean, does it really matter who starts on what side?

Do it makes a difrence if you start as defense or assault... I would say yes. On a lot of maps defense got some huge advances, like on MP where a good defense team is almost impossible to beat, as there are only one objective to guard.

From my point of view (and I’m sure a lot of other players agree with me), defense is just a bit more easy then assault. Let’s take Pipeline (6 vs. 6) as a example: Defense can just drop the guarding of Exterior and 2nd Valve and focus on Main Control Panel and Primary. Let’s say you put one guy on top of MCP, one on top of West Ladder, one in the vent and one down by Primary. We should now agree that if the assault team is now over fantastic players and your using some sort of voice communication, you should be pretty good covered.

That leaves 2 players to do “search and destroy” plus you get the information when assault is taking exterior and 2nd valve. Ofcoz mistakes can happened, so for the argues sake lets say that defense wins the first 6 rounds 5-1 or even 4-2. If you are 4 rounds up when shifting to assault, I would say you pretty good on your way to win the match. Defense then knows that they have win all there rounds or the game will at least go OT.

Damm I’m just going on and on today... bottom line is, yes I think there is difrense on witch side you start .

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=RR=Raist[RBS]
Rogers Rangers | Platoon Leader 1st Platoon
raist@rogers-rangers.com | http://www.rogers-rangers.com

Originally posted by: psicotic1

Nope, sorry. thjats from Prima's Strategy guide. No where does AA list an assault or defense for MA, only Ambush and Escort.

Uhm... as it's listed on the official website, my guess is that the DEV's don't totaly disagree... or is it just me?

I don't think it matters either way as each team gets to play both sides. If def can win easily 6 rounds, then the assaulting team should have equal chance of winning 6 rounds when it is their turn.

But since escort has to clear the objective I personally think that is equal to assault.
Bubba
Frag'em and Bag'em...

Visit the SEALs Team 3, Phoenix Platoon

As Boomer said, it doesn't matter that defense has an easier time because BOTH sides have to play both defense and assault. That's why it's nitpicking.

Although I can't quite understand how anyone could consider ambush=assault...

Post edited by Hnefi at 6/2/2003 10:24:52 PM

It was set up this way in accordance to what Braccus siad if I can remember right from one of the 50 posts that have covered this subject before. If any of you don't remember him he was the face of the Game for a long period. Any he works for the Army and he said to set it up like we have it.

PSI am I remembering correctly.

Escorting is a defensive action. Ambushing is an offensive action.

Not all maps favour Defense. Swamp Raid for example, I feel is easier for assault.

Ya Swamp is far easier for assualt. But that Map above prooves nothing. Even looking at it you can see that there is no clear defining difference between the sides. The map is almost symetrical.
The thing everyone has to get through their minds is not think of it as the other maps. Other wise they would have named the teams Assault and Defense. Just pick up a dictionary and read the definations for Escort and Ambush and you can clearly see why this rule is in place. Also when I was one of the many to bring this up a few months ago I beleive the admins said that if neither team got their objective by times end its a tie just like MOUT is a tie if not all objectives are taken. For me it makes perfect sense.

And to quote The Matrix.

"FREE YOUR MIND"
Post edited by Stevieboy at 6/3/2003 1:14:30 AM

It doesn't really matter what the sides are CALLED, what matters is what you are required to DO. Escort has to move and capture a number of objectives before the timeperiod has run out. This is the same operation that assault has to do on all the other maps. Ambush has to prevent the enemy from reaching the objectives and typically take up semi-static positions near said objectives in order to protect them, which is exactly what defense does on all the other maps.

Although ambush might be the aggressors when looking at the story behind the map, they are most certainly the defenders in the gameplay, and it's the gameplay that matters, is it not?

Originally posted by: Korban

Escorting is a defensive action. Ambushing is an offensive action.

I can live with that.

lol, I went through this with Psicotic about 4 months ago. Funny it should end up on here again. =p




[t]ERRORIST [e]LIMINATION [n]ETWORK http://www.ten-aa.net & #ten-aa on gamesnet MIRC

Originally posted by: mattox

lol, I went through this with Psicotic about 4 months ago. Funny it should end up on here again. =p

give it another couple months and it'll be back once again! =P

1-Lt. -=[10thSFG]=-God
ODA-1 Squad Leader

Along with another "Which server host is best" thread.
Bubba
Frag'em and Bag'em...

Visit the SEALs Team 3, Phoenix Platoon

Originally posted by: mattox

lol, I went through this with Psicotic about 4 months ago. Funny it should end up on here again. =p

I wasn't even a couple months we didn't get that lucky.

This is like beating a dead horse to death.

One more time-

I made and an agreement and a responsibility to keep it. The agreement was to keep to the premise of promoting the US Army and keeping to certain doctorines and principle's.

Now,after 6 years of being in the Infantry, I am pretty certain of the defintion of Ambush and Escort.

Everyone has this mindset that just because you are required to accomplish something you are assaulting and if you are required to prevent them from accomplishing that you are defending. Not so. Quit thinking one dimensionally.

I am not about to go and repost the definitions of Ambush and Escort, some one else wants to thats fine, but its getting a bit old. I can understand new people asking, but when veterans here use it as opening to rehash their feelings, it gets a bit tiresome.

Suffice it to say that when you look up the word 'Ambush' one of the first words you will see is 'assault'. Enough said.

psicotic1
Teamwarfare Senior Operations Staff