yo... 325th... you guys...

were great sports during our 2v2. that was our funnest match yet! you guys were great. thanks.

great games.

fresh

I can feel the

psicotic1
Teamwarfare Senior Operations Staff

1st, I don't want to start something, I enjoyed all the games I played vs NMG ( yes even when we lost ), but we are getting better and putting up a good fight every time.

I did not play yesterday but I listened on TS what was happening during the 1st part of the match. 2v2 325th were in def, and NMG in assault.

from what I heard 325th won the 1st round ( they rushed the fields ) 2nd round was a tie ( 325th decided to wait for NMG, they never went...) 3rd round 325th lost ( they rushed but were taken out by nades I think) 4th 5th and 6th round 325th decided to wait for NMG but again they never tried to "get in contact" with 325th players.

325th on assault, didn't want to camp, so they decided to try to get to NMG, and the 325th boys were crushed everytime so we lost the match.

My point is this. I understand that the point of the match is to win, but I don't think it is good sportmanship to camp in assault and wait for tie to happen. I know it's tactics, but I don't think it should be the purpose of the 2v2 ladder. It's not objective, so it means it's the team with the most kills. How can you get kills if the assault team ( key word is assault ) stays in the back field, sitting and talking in global chat until the round is over.

I think TWL should change the format of the 2v2 so that the assault team has to fight with the defense team. If not, if I see same kind of matches in our next matches, I will strongly suggest to the rest of our team to drop out of the 2v2.

I know this kind of discussion has been in the forum before, but I don't see anything changed so far. The 2 players of 325th were very frustrated that the other team was sitting back and waiting for tie to happen.
Major {325th}Psychosis
XO 325th AIR

Originally posted by: psicotic1

I can feel the

And there it goes...

In response to the whole 2v2 camping thing, I think that it's just the nature of the ladder, and strangely enough, some people enjoy it. I don't, and I would very much like to see a 2v2 Objective ladder, but that doesn't mean they should change the combat ladder. I was originally for the idea of making assault actually assault, but they have a point that there really is no assault or defense on that ladder, those are just designations provided by the game.

Anyhow, if you don't enjoy the combat ladder, it's probably best to just let your other team members participate or simply drop it.

The only thing about a 2v2 objective ladder is we'd need to take out maps like Insurgent Camp, Pipeline and any other map that can be completed by doing one of two objectives.

A 2x2 objective would be cool. But only the bigger maps should be left out. the teams are equal so i see no reason why to take out the maps that only have 1 objective.
Indeed there were previous posts about this and they stated that 2x2 combat do not have a assault or defense side. This is just because it's implemented in the game but there is no such thing in combat.

This topic is discussed about every week and every week it stays the same: There's the people who want to have a good game, and there's the people who want to win very bad.
Fine, nothing in the rules against it.
Let's just drop the topic because we know who is for and who is against it. There is no solution possible in the rules (it was tried), it can only change via the teams that actually play.
As for objective 2v2, i'd join that ladder AS WELL (still hoping for a vote or possible a sign-on time): if there are multiple objectives, just adhere to PRIMARY objective, and only cancel the maps that are really impossible to sort out 1 obj where the game will say it has been ended.

Originally posted by: Korban

The only thing about a 2v2 objective ladder is we'd need to take out maps like Insurgent Camp, Pipeline and any other map that can be completed by doing one of two objectives.

Could do 2 maps out of 1... "Pipeline valves" and "pipeline comp" menaing when playing the comp one u can only take the comp. Same on IC.

My point is this, 2v2 should be a "show" of skills and strategy, who's the more sthealty etc.... there is no skills at sitting back, to my view, there is no honor to win if you don't try to win.
Major {325th}Psychosis
XO 325th AIR

Originally posted by: {325th}Psychosis

My point is this, 2v2 should be a "show" of skills and strategy, who's the more sthealty etc.... there is no skills at sitting back, to my view, there is no honor to win if you don't try to win.

Agreed, but read my post again. Others think of it differently.
My personal advice: Just look at the ladder standings, and make new standings (in your head) of the people who play like you do, and just leave out the campers (who are in their right, no arguement there).
Unfortunately u cannot avoid them all the time

Originally posted by: Korban

The only thing about a 2v2 objective ladder is we'd need to take out maps like Insurgent Camp, Pipeline and any other map that can be completed by doing one of two objectives.

What's wrong with having 2 objectives? I play 2on2's on Ultimate Arena all the time on IC and Pipeline; it's fairly easy to cover both.

I have seen a lot of posts on the 2v2 thing. There was a fair solution to it at one point, but I don't know where that stands.

I can offer a very simple solution to make people battle it out, and keep it fun. I know there are no objectives so technically there is no "assault" or "defense". But the names would be important for this scenario.

No tied rounds. If no one dies, the round goes to defense. Because, well, you defended and no one assaulted. If the match goes to a 6-6 tie, play MOUT WITH objectives. 2v2 objective in MOUT would be a helluva ride.

Just a suggestion...

I think they should just leave combat 2v2 as it is and open up an objective 2v2 ladder. Again, I really don't think multiple objective maps would be an issue; I even play 1v1's on those without much difficulty.

325th Ill be short and blunt

Lessoned Learned - Since 2v2 team combat has been around its been nicknamed "Team Campbat" Differnt team use different tactics its your responsibility to be prepared for it.

This smells of "Well we only lost becuase" excuse. NMG has respect for teams we spank, play close, get spanked by.... but we have the most respect for those that do it with class.

I remember pwning fresh when we first recurited him, and now he would just own me. So he knows how much hard work goes into becoming better. I can only assume he was trying to recognize the vast improvement NMG has wittnessed in 325th.

FX
Post edited by ^NMG^KillerFX at 6/2/2003 2:57:40 PM

^NMG^KillerFX

Originally posted by: =13SC=Rooster


I can offer a very simple solution to make people battle it out, and keep it fun. I know there are no objectives so technically there is no "assault" or "defense". But the names would be important for this scenario.

No tied rounds. If no one dies, the round goes to defense. Because, well, you defended and no one assaulted. If the match goes to a 6-6 tie, play MOUT WITH objectives. 2v2 objective in MOUT would be a helluva ride.

Just a suggestion...

There was a vote on that and the majority voted NO. Because now A camps most off the time. But when you implement that rule D will runn away and try to not encounter you. it's no solution. To the TWL staff: Plz put up a vote for a 2x2 objective ladder. It's the only way. and a great deal wants it.

yes, fx is correct. you guys played very well, and more importantly, you made it fun. which is all i came here to say.

regarding camping on assult, that is not true. it just so happens that we took up the left side, swept around behind the silos and to the back of the hind. only problem being we didn't have quiet enough time to move back up behind the 325th players in the fields. we were not camping on assult, and we definetly did not camp on defense. in fact, if i remember correctly, it was global chatted to us at one point that 325th was "camping in the cabbage patch." lol.

by doing this we were hoping to catch your players the 1 or 2 times that they would try to go around the silos or up by the house and hit us on the right side, but unfortunatly that didn't happen. so we had to bring it out to you when we were on defense to get the win.

well it doesn't matter, it was a fun match anyway.

Please i'm not making any excuses, I am saying only what I think, wich is like I said before, I wish that 2v2 was a show of skills, camping is not a skills.

when your being challenge by a team, the fact that I'm in defense at the beginning because I am being challenge, is suppose to give me a bit of advantage, cuz, everyone knows, defense on most maps is a +.

I said also what my teamates, that played last night, told me, that they didn't like the fact that your guys were camping when they were in assault, spending more time talking in the global chat then to try to kill my guys.

That said, I also said that it was my opinion. I never complained about losing, never tried to find excuses why we lost a match. I hate other teams that complains because they lost. when you lose, you lose.

My whole point was the lack of sportmanship , I have the upmost respect for NMG, we had some very good fight with them, some close, some not so close. But again, I am not trying to say anything wrong about NMG or anyone else. Just that I don't like that kind of playing.
Post edited by {325th}Psychosis at 6/2/2003 3:30:35 PM

Major {325th}Psychosis
XO 325th AIR

that's exactly the reason why we dropped from the 2v2 Combat pretty fast. As dumb as it might sound...i thought it would be a kind of Deathmatch....last man standing....but it wasn't. It was more like a archaeological expidition...the search for the lost campers However, if there are teams out there that love to play this way and think this is a extraordinary strategy....jeez....let em play. I'll wait for the 2v2 Objective...

psychosis,

my apologies on not understanding your post completely. but to clear it up again, we were not camping on assult, please read my post agian. you will see our strat for it.

fresh

SkinnyD, the point is to get one team moving. Defense can run, but when assault goes down 0-1 after the first round, you'll be damn sure assault is going to try to find some defenders to shoot. And if defense should somehow get so lucky as to stay hidden for 6 rounds and go up 6-0, do you think it makes sense to lose the other 6 by hiding with the lead when you have 6 chances to end it in one round?

Six of one half a dozen of the other I guess...

It looks to me like ^NMG^ was trying to get an easy win by taking advantage of the rules.

^NMG^ = BOO!

Now A camps and with your rule D will camp and hide even MORE!!! i don't wanna discuss again. Gl finding it out.

I would have to agree here- Team Combat sucks- oh wait that wasn't the point? LOL

This is exactly why ^NMG^ as a squad doesn't partake in the Team Combat ladder, it's strategies are just that there aren't any. These guys play in it for fun.

And how would you know if they were camping anyway?? Moving 2 guys around any map - you may never make contact. Hell I did it with 4 guys on Swamp Raid- walked around the entire map with all 4 guys " sweeping" the swamp and never saw the opfor- apparently they were going in the same direction!

So apparently by your definition of "camping" teh assaulters have to move forward to try and take the cabbage patch where the Defenders are camped. So what then, the Defenders shouldn't be allowed to move while they are killed? or shouldn't be allowed past the 48th parallel or someother unenforceable rule. lol anyway- there is no such thing as camping regardless fo assault or defense especially when you take "objective" out of it- then all bets are off. Team Combat means kills- whatever that takes, plain and simple, there is no assault because there is no objective.


BTW THOW- shut up if you don't know what you are talking about- in case none of you read Fresh's post- they were moving around- maybe the long way around- for people like you guys is exactly why the dev's took out the term "camping" in the game. No such thing.





Post edited by ^NMG^BurZurk at 6/2/2003 5:26:29 PM

Originally posted by: [ThOw]Sterinn Atchu

It looks to me like ^NMG^ was trying to get an easy win by taking advantage of the rules.

^NMG^ = BOO!

again- bad taste


here let me try insulting your entire clan too....

[ThOw]=bad taste (because one of their members is an ass!)

wow that was easy- it may not b e true but I said it-

thank you and sorry in advance PSI/ admins- but this is rediculous as usual an appreciative thread ruined by flamers- please go back to the AA forums and the other yahoo's there if you don't have anything nice to say here.
Post edited by ^NMG^BurZurk at 6/2/2003 5:31:24 PM

THow, you talk all this smack about clans. But no one ever see's you back it up. You had no right to come into this post and Flame us. Grow up man.

And also. How did, this turn into a shitty post. Fresh was just trying to be nice. And it turns into this. I hope you people grow up.

I'm sorry it turn out that way, it was not my intention.

Also I'm sorry to say that I didn't read fresh's post completely, see I was at the office when I read it and well, you know you don't want your teamworkers to see you browse the forum during working hours .....

You're right, it happened to me too on river bassin 2v2 running around 2 times while the other team was going in the same direction, feels like someone is camping but not in reality. Should have thought about it.

Anyway I wasn't trying to flame you guys, I know you're too good to stoop low enough to sit down and wait. It's not the same perspective when you listen to your teamates comment in TS but you are not in the server looking at the action.

Again Sorry. I'm sure it was a good match. Just wish that next time we meet on something else then JRTC_farm, unless it's 8v8
Major {325th}Psychosis
XO 325th AIR

Originally posted by: ^NMG^BurZurk




And how would you know if they were camping anyway?? Moving 2 guys around any map - you may never make contact. Hell I did it with 4 guys on Swamp Raid- walked around the entire map with all 4 guys " sweeping" the swamp and never saw the opfor- apparently they were going in the same direction!

Lol if there were 4 off you and it was objective then the opposite team was probably defending the objective and not running around in the swamp. Haha. No offense but that amuses me. Objective means you need to get it and they are not gonna leave it unprotected. And the first thing you should do is engage the camp(taking objective). this thread is too funny

LOL Skinny, guess my plan isn't simple enough...

well maybe not the first thing to do but still it's the main thing

Originally posted by: [v75th]SkinnyD

Originally posted by: ^NMG^BurZurk




And how would you know if they were camping anyway?? Moving 2 guys around any map - you may never make contact. Hell I did it with 4 guys on Swamp Raid- walked around the entire map with all 4 guys " sweeping" the swamp and never saw the opfor- apparently they were going in the same direction!

Lol if there were 4 off you and it was objective then the opposite team was probably defending the objective and not running around in the swamp. Haha. No offense but that amuses me. Objective means you need to get it and they are not gonna leave it unprotected. And the first thing you should do is engage the camp(taking objective). this thread is too funny

hello mcfly, I am not a retard here, it was actually back when we played team combat.

and the thread goes on, and downhill Some day's i don't know why i even bother to read here.

If they had a spot where only late breaking rules were posted that ONLY the admin's posted toand no one else in this community- i'd never set foot in another gaming forum in my life.
Post edited by ^NMG^BurZurk at 6/2/2003 9:19:23 PM

Originally posted by: {325th}Psychosis

there is no skills at sitting back

Their skill is shown when they take the lead. Their patience is shown through the rest. Team Combat isn't always fun, but that's the way it is. I won't deny that in 2v2 if you let us get up one your only chance of seeing us again is to come to us.

Ya know what NMG? I just spent 10 Mins replying back to you, then I realized that, if i wanna give the best
Blo\/\....I mean......Flame Jobs, I'll just have to ask ^NMG^BurZurk how he does it so good.

I'm not trying to start a flamefest, I just want to become a better sport and also a more "politicaly correct" human being.

They're being complained about after offering compliments - how is that not something to be upset over?

psychosis,

no worries bro... have misread posts too.

as for the rest of you, lets just drop this. this is stupid.

fresh
Post edited by ^NMG^fresh at 6/3/2003 2:26:16 AM

You cant even tell someone a good game anymore, without someone coming in on the post and starting something completely different from the main post.

Just remove the time limit...someone will have to die. lol

Originally posted by: [ThOw]Sterinn Atchu

Ya know what NMG? I just spent 10 Mins replying back to you, then I realized that, if i wanna give the best
Blo\/\....I mean......Flame Jobs, I'll just have to ask ^NMG^BurZurk how he does it so good.

I'm not trying to start a flamefest, I just want to become a better sport and also a more "politicaly correct" human being.

Sterrin-Atchu i will call you by your name because you are an individual, it's not your clan's fault you are a stupid person. You have failed to realize here that you started with misinterpretation and still fail to realize you are at fault- so don't start with the wisecracks here. 1) you're not funny - stupid people are not funny, they are pathetic. 2) If you were "trying to become a better sport?" How does flaming someone in the community, expecially one of the top clans (^NMG^) in this league, improve your sportsmanship?


Here's your sportmanship lesson- maybe you should have joined the topic and READ IT - then posted "GG 325th" cause that's what it was about, or even perhaps added something positive like- "Ya know- maybe Fresh and ^NMG^ WERE tryin to find you guys". That's sportsmanship, or politcal correctness.

I have never claimed to be politcally correct, so I can say this wihtout hesitation. ANywhere- anytime - bizatch! You started it- i'll always finish it.

Perhaps- PSI/admin could finish this now by locking this degrading thread.

And from now on ^NMG^ will be reminded to make sure we never stop in to post a GG again- as it is always such a pleasurable experience.

Ok that's enough now, my original reply was ment to say only what I think about the format.

Like I said before, from my point of view, and what the players from my team said, at that time it was my thoughts.

I know NMG members, and I never had problem with them before (except them killing/owning me from time to time 8-p
). I always enjoyed playing with them, cuz I learn something new everytime about how to play and team tactics.

The comments I made were only my thoughts and feeling about the format of 2v2. Remember that my view was listening to my teamates playing on TS. I wasn't logged on the server so I couldn't look at what the other team was doing. Same for my boys. They were doing their stuff, and it looked like the opforce were not trying to get to my boys.

My comments doesn't reflect necessary 325th members point of view. I was not flaming anyone or any team.

I apologize if it was taken that way. I have too much respect for NMG to try to flame them, wouldn't want them to come after me with a vengance.

So yes, close the topic, if I have any "beef" with a clan, I go to their site and contact their commanding officer. I don't post to flame.

Sorry if my views bothered anyone
Major {325th}Psychosis
XO 325th AIR