Your views on nades/203's in 2.1

I am just curious how the twl community feels about nades being reduced on pipe, IC and hospital. Also getting fewer 203's on bridge and the removal of 203's on sandstorm.

Do you think these moves are good for teamplay/tactics in matches, or just good for the pubs? Or is it bad altogether?

dunno yet, BSE matches will be really different though..

I think it reduces spam & is a good thing in general. Now it means most kills will be done with a weapon.

i think the 203 on sandstorm was a good idea..= no spam.. but the 203s on mp and mpse and some outdoor maps should not have been removed..harder to get the long range snipers and shooters out.
in i camp..we need at lease 2-3 nades per round..but w/e

did any 1 notice u cannot drop shot anymore?

i can understand ICamp, but why did they take most of my 203 rounds away on BSE
Post edited by [NR]_Moh-Aw at 6/3/2004 10:37:49 PM

Feels like they have done Assault alot weaker by taking away the possibility to nade/203 ordinary camping spots, my guess is alot more matches is gonna go to overtime (especially on Bridge). Taking away some nades and 203's from defense would've been fine.
But what I really don't get is they removing 203's from Sandstorm and at the same time releasing Arctic - 6 seconds into a round you'll have 3 rpg's and 3 203's landing in your head.
Post edited by totte at 6/3/2004 10:50:14 PM

6v6 Open League 2004 Champion 42.
6v6 Invite League 2004 Champion x6.
6v6 SF Tournament 2004 Champion x6.
6v6 Invite League 2003 Champion -=NordBat=-

I think the nade reductions I think are wonderful it will make it harder to defend yes but also attack. We will just all have to wait and see.

why cant they make it a server setting so TWL could choose what inventory people got.. or would that lag it.. ?

I think that for Pub play, the changes were awesome...

However, for matches, its going to be damn tough to break through a WC prim strat with a limtied amount of nades (well, assuming they lowered WC, havent played it yet)... Same goes for Pipe, IC, etc...

I dunno, just something else we have to adjust to, I guess... but seems like the "tactical" aspect of the game is giving way to who has the best m16/m4 shot, almost always giving a prepared defense on already one-sided maps the upper hand

BXF
Post edited by BXF at 6/3/2004 11:29:32 PM

:o... wut happens when protist runs out of nades to throw?
_______________

The Anti-spam league won out

From the AA forums:

Originally posted by: MS|SG_Spiker

Originally posted by: DarkCntry

Originally posted by: [TNT_MaVeRiCk]---

*EDIT*
Oh and talkin about Americas Army itself, wasn't it supposed to be REALISTIC? HOOAH DEVS! I'd love to see a SF soldier going into a battle with... no frags! If someone's pressing someone to make this a best seller game, it's just becoming ridiculous.

You'd love to see an SF soldier go into an urban CQB situation with no frags? Ok, find any of the SF members who frequent the forums, I'm sure they'll tell you that they do this quite commonly.

He speaks the truth. Many of the SF guys at E3 said they hardly ever use or even carry nades into urban combat situation.

Yet I wonder... all the maps they removed the nades from, are not SF maps... so those comments from SF soldiers need not apply.

i want my nades back

maybe reducing the ammount of nade for d on those maps is ok but reducing them on assault just makes it harder for ass. and on bridge only one 203 and 3 shells is just stupid.
Post edited by TheLivingLegend at 6/4/2004 1:11:56 AM

I think it's nice to get the spam out of pubs, but it's not really good for matches.

Personally.. i like change in general. It forces people to rethink, and come up with new strats.

Less Spam = More Player Skill.. Anybody can spam and get kills.. But to actually use your head and earn a kill is a little more difficult.. I agree totally with them. And I kinda like the fact that there is no Nades on certain Maps, CSAR, ICAMP, etc. And now 203 on Sandstorm..
_______________
-Rising Storm-

i would have preferred just lowering the map ceiling to make spam shots improbable.

We played on match tonight on MPSE. It was a helluva change not having those sevon rounds in my 203, but I gotta admit something..... It changed our gameplay and made us more reliant on each other as a team rather than some big boomies and some support people in follow. It's a major adjustment, but a much welcomed one imo.

I woulda been happy with four rounds, but I can live with three. It forces the grenadier to be much more concise with their shots, especially when combines with the projectile proximation adjustments.

All in all I think it's gonna make for much more tactical and strategical matches once everyone adjusts. Beforehand it was about who could land a 203 on something they couldn't see or throw a frag at the most predicatable spot. The shift now os more on teamwork and actually defeating the other team with teamwork, skill, adjustment, and reaction rather than predictable spamming points via high explosives.

It's a new challenge - gotta like that. If it was the same thing forever, it would get old and only the best spammers would be left on the ladder. Between the recent rule changes in the TWL and the changes in this latest patch, it's done wonders for leveling the playing field!!

I'm also liking, though adjusting, to the new action on the M24. that should greatly minimize the low DP sniping on Mountain Pass hehehe.

Edit: Psyk^ - YOUR SIG ROCKS! had to show it off to my clan lol http://ripclan.dyndns.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=30331#30331 It would probably be a bit more firndly if it were a flash movie though (food for thought hehehe)
Post edited by {Total} at 6/4/2004 3:03:00 AM

3 shells on the 203 is a bit drastic imo. What they should do is just "roof" the maps so you cannot do any dropshots, and just give us our 7 rounds back for regular 203ing. Also, the reduced long-distance accuracy on the M16 will make outdoor maps a big pain in the ass imo, cause you will have to engage in long distance fights once you're spotted (and spotted you will), and you will waste 1-2 clips on an enemy (or even worse : 3-4 if you're unlucky). Result : you're out of ammo when you're finally getting anywhere close to your objective, ready to get omgwtfpwned by an obj camper with 6 clips in his belt ...
___________________________________________

How about we just remove the guns and give everyone 50 nades... 4 nades in those maps was too many. Not that it really was a problem, but Im in favor for nade reduction.
But maybe it was not smart to cut off the 203 that much.

1~2 nades is enough.
3 shells on 203 it not enough.

well on the other hand I hardly use nades and 203...I use m24 and they went and did this.
You lose the scope view after you fire cause this noob soldier cant reload his rifle without looking the reloading action...

remember people 1st person shooter, not first person nader.

Honor whores! move to Hospital! with reduced nade the assault has _no_ chance to shoot the rushing vip...

Straight out, it has reduced spamming but has gimped certain sides...

they reduced M16 accuracy? I didnt feel that for sure, I felt more accurate on long ranges the bit ive tried so far. i think its the same.

i'll take 20 nades and ten bullets =^))

Originally posted by: BXF
I think that for Pub play, the changes were awesome...

However, for matches, its going to be damn tough to break through a WC prim strat with a limtied amount of nades (well, assuming they lowered WC, havent played it yet)... Same goes for Pipe, IC, etc...

I dunno, just something else we have to adjust to, I guess... but seems like the "tactical" aspect of the game is giving way to who has the best m16/m4 shot, almost always giving a prepared defense on already one-sided maps the upper hand

BXF

Agree totally. It really hampers Defense, and assault Strats on most maps, but like you said I'm sure we will all adjust to it in time.

Too many people didn't know how to deal with spam. Consquently, since they couldn't overcome it, they whined and prevailed.

I didn't think it needed to be changed. Now the've made assaulting even more difficult on certain maps.
Post edited by =JSS=Mr Furious at 6/4/2004 7:40:33 AM

not everyone used their nades to spam, stupid move imo, my biggest problem with this patch

Frag grenades changes were too much. It's just the same as removing one viable tactic within the game. Sure frags were "spammed", aka purposely thrown where an opfor was believed to be going. With 2.0a only the Hospital map needed a little adjustment IMO. That was only due to the ease of which VIP could reach the Helo during that nade "spam" cover.

Originally posted by: =JSS=Mr Furious
Too many people didn't know how to deal with spam. Consquently, since they couldn't overcome it, they whined and prevailed.

I guess this is an equal opportunity world after all. If too many people can't win without spams, they might change it in the next patch.
Time to start getting pro-active i'd say.

I think the flow of the game is much better knowing each enemy has only one nade. It has many advantages. Look at it from that side. I dont like being pinned down with spam for 4 minutes at a time in one part of a map. Its more fun now.
______________________________________
a.k.a. $h4d0w_h4x0r
An ARMY of One
Member of the U.S. ARMY

Yup yup.. I never liked SPAM.. Good thing their reducing it now!
Post edited by Psyk^ at 6/4/2004 3:55:31 PM

_______________
-Rising Storm-

I dont know about everybody else, but I support anything that will require teams to change and adjust their strategies to win a match. I have been around for so long that these changes are a refreshing way to bring some excitement back to match play. It will be interesting to see how teams adjust their strats to overcome these changes. It will be VERY interesting to see some of the teams that are more reliant on spam to win, now lose...

Anyways...June 23rd...

Originally posted by: Rotten_Youth
Also, the reduced long-distance accuracy on the M16 will make outdoor maps a big pain in the ass imo, cause you will have to engage in long distance fights once you're spotted (and spotted you will), and you will waste 1-2 clips on an enemy (or even worse : 3-4 if you're unlucky)

bah, I got 3 kills with 3 bursts last match I played on mountain_pass in the 2.0a patch ( Vasilia ), so now 2 bursts will do
-----------------------------
EdiPuS said: "yes I admit I have aimbot!! but z3b has aimbot too but he sucks with it!"
wtfpwned?

How many 203's does a real soldier carry. I highly doubt its six though im not positive. Also, my thought is this. There are tons of games out there, this is one. Its free, and someone else makes it, and they did a way better job than i could ever do. So i like the game. Less nades=more shooting and skill there.

The glass is now half full... get me.
______________________________________
.::i9.Karnifex::.

For match play I think the reduction of nades and putting ceilings up was a horrible change.

Coordinated nade tossing made for interesting strats were as now its just going to be a gundown. I'm very against making ceilings on the maps. I looked at this as an evolution of the game, something the devs didn't expect but the players eventually became very good at. Imagine coordinated drop shots on CSAR matches, that would make for much more interesting assault and defense tactics, and the teams that actually practiced these would be the teams that won the matches. Same goes for sandstorm, and village any SF map. I was hoping DEVs would take out the ceilings and make for very interesting SF matches with coordinated dropshooting. But apparently all the whiners won out, and the one thing that made AA really unique is gone. yay.

The ceilings would not have worked in the long run. People would have still found lower altitude spots to be able to reach the other side of the map with blind long arc shots....if there's an exploit, people will find it to win.

The Army/Dev's knew the dropshot spam was unrealistic and undermined the teamwork concept overall - it really didn't take bitching & whining to get it removed. It would ahappened anyway.

Right after 2.0a, one of the Dev's stated the 203's on Sandstorm was an oversight and they would be removed from it the next patch.

As far as "dropshots" - the Army go for as much realism in this game as possible. The M203 is NOT a mortar. If you ever see soemone pointing that thing up past the altitude provided by the leaf sites (damned near straight up), that person will never hold one again lol. Spammers shoot for exploited kills, the Army shoots for realism and teamwork.

End point - the Army did not support dropshots and took note when it became highly prevelant.
Post edited by {Total} at 6/4/2004 6:05:47 PM

I think it's GREAT they have removed the 203 on sandstorm. So many times has this been address here in these very forums. And everytime the TWL "community" decided to go with the arguement of "well if it's in the game, it must be allowed" even though it was against the Rules of Engagement. Anyways, Thank you Devs for correcting this, that so many have exploited. I suppose from now the "community" will try to follow the Rules of Engagement, but I won't be holding my breath.

Originally posted by: [4ID]Whirlpool
I suppose from now the "community" will try to follow the Rules of Engagement, but I won't be holding my breath.

Honestly, on Sandstorm, I never cared one way or another about nades/203's. However, I will be yelling, "FRAG OUT!" as often as I can.

"FR FR FR FR FR FR FR FR FRAG OUT! FRAG OUT! FRA FRA FRA FRAG OUT!"