Rule modification suggestions - What have we learned?

Well, it appears the majority of the firestorm is over, so let's rehash and try to improve the rules so that things like the last 48 hrs don't happen again.

Proposed Rule Modifications/Additions

1. Roster
This section of the rules needs to be cleaned up to show that players are either required to play by the same name as they have registered under, or not. As it currently stands, it just says that you have to register. In the cases where the login is invalid, or has already been cases, something needs to take this into account. Perhaps removing the text that says 'don't put your clan sig in your login' might be simple enough. In my opinion, online the names mean very little, it's the clan tags that have the weight.

Global Ops doesn't have any way to track who uses what name (to my knowledge) so why bother trying to tie people down? There is no guarantee that the person behind the keyboard playing [Geno]Nogsmoke is me other than my word. Ladders require trust and/or honor for this reason alone. If I tell you something, that's how it is. If I discover I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Plain and simple.

2. Unsportsmanlike Conduct/Profanity
It's my opinion that infractions of this nature need to be addressed immediately in game. There is no reason to sit there and subject yourself to things you find offensive, but in today's day and age there is no reason to suspect that the person who has offended you has realized they have done so. I leared last month that the 'come here' gesture by curling your finger in is actually horribly offensive to some cultures. (no, I'm not kidding)

The simple truth is that people get offended for odd things all the time. The problem is that some things that are offensive to some may be old hat to another. I know that whenever I'm relaxing and having fun, I may curse a bit, but I also know that the people I hang out with don't mind and will let me know if I ever cross into the 'offensive' area.

2.1. Communication
People can't see what you're saying while picking weapons/classes. You also can't always see text while crossing the snow. White on white doesn't exactly contrast, and you can't always spin your view up to the sky to read. So make sure you get a response when you talk to the other team. A grunt, a 'y', anything. If they continue to offend you on purpose, then I'd say it's unsportsmanlike. The key is, they know they're offending, and have not stopped.

3. Timely manner of resolving rule infractions
The current scheme of snapping a screenshot and finishing the match just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like you just found yourself an insurance policy, and if you lose, you can enact it. I don't want to have to play games with lawyers present to catch any error in the ruleset, I want to play games with people who I might consider friends and worthy opponents. In the same sense, I don't like to have my time wasted. Communicate with the other team if you believe there has been an infraction of the rules. Try to work it out w/o an admin if possible (I'm sure Spynes wouldn't mind having some of the weight lifted).

I'm not trying to start up another RDH/Geno flamewar here, but trying to fix what went wrong. Neither team seems to believe they were in the error. Let's leave it at that.

-edit- Added a few returns to clean it up a touch.
Post edited by [Geno]Nogsmoke at 6/3/2002 2:05:25 PM

This all makes sense to me.

That sounds very good....it could help with some of the confusion


[Spynes]

Agreed: speak up if you have a problem, or else it must not be that big of a problem.

That does sound good.

1 thing though: Problems in game are tough to handle... you have to have a cease fire to sit there and discuss it? How do you work that out while trying to stop the other team from completing and objective?
]SH[$1.35+Tax

I totally agree on that. Nice revision Nog.

See you guys later.



[RDH] GOD [KA] - I got my eye on you.

I meant mainly for language. If someone says something that bothers you, ask them not to say it again.

Originally posted by: $1.35+Tax

That does sound good.

1 thing though: Problems in game are tough to handle... you have to have a cease fire to sit there and discuss it? How do you work that out while trying to stop the other team from completing and objective?

Map errors/Roster errors (that you know of) can be handled at the beginning of that map. A simple 'woah, woah. I thought we were attacking' would work just fine in most cases. Restart the map if too much time has passed. For conduct, a quick 'quit it' or 'stop' or something doesn't take a critical amount of time. Wait until you respawn if you have to.

The point is that they shouldn't be saying it in the first place. I would rather have a rule that says that all communication between the two teams in Global Chat (the only way to communicate between both teams) is restricted only to the captains. This way you have more responsible (hopefully) players that are communicating between the two teams. All other communication should be handled in team chat. You want to say something to the other team like gg, thats fine. But nothing more then that. Tell your captain if you have a problem, and the captain will talk in global chat. This can reduce all the bs with the teams being able to openly communicate to each other.

Originally posted by: Wascally Wabbit

The point is that they shouldn't be saying it in the first place. I would rather have a rule that says that all communication between the two teams in Global Chat (the only way to communicate between both teams) is restricted only to the captains. This way you have more responsible (hopefully) players that are communicating between the two teams. All other communication should be handled in team chat. You want to say something to the other team like gg, thats fine. But nothing more then that. Tell your captain if you have a problem, and the captain will talk in global chat. This can reduce all the bs with the teams being able to openly communicate to each other.

Mistyping a h for a j does occur sometimes, it'd be nice if there was some sort of safety net in case something offensive does accidentally (or not) gets presented to the other team. Accidentally broadcasting 'oh fuck, they just planted the bomb in the west turbine. GET THERE!' to the global chat not only may be offensive, but gives them a serious advantage. Should you lose the match for that? I don't think so.

No communication at all during a match makes for rather dry matches. I, for one, enjoy congratulating the other team if they kill me in some spectacular fashion, at the end of a gritty firefight, or being LAWed unexpectedly with half my team. A simple 'haha' or 'laf, nice'.

It's a game, try to have fun.

Wascallywabbit is far too serious to have any fun. He thinks this is like the end all most serious issue in his life. I think his ears have grown too big for his head.

PS: This is mostly a joke post, although I still do think he needs to lighten up some.

Seriously though Mr. Wabbit, we never meant to get you all worked up and for that I do apologize.

I have tried to be quiet on these issues, but there are a couple of points I would like to make.

When evaluating sportsmanship I deal with it based on the apparent intent of the comment. This isnt some backwards ass sexual harrassment court room where people get burns for making scant references to questionable verbage. If the INTENT is to harm someone (at least the PERCEPTION of intent) then you will get hammered mercilessly by the staff. If, however, you make a small "fun" comment that can be considered marginally offensive I will not rule against you.

As for the rules, be prepared and understand what your rights are. you can contest a match, but be forewarned, if you make a habit of contesting matches you will not be taken very seriously.

Have fun with the game. Make sure the other team has the opportunity to have fun. In the rules there is a little line:

"simple. straight forward. play nice."

When we first made a rules page thats all there was on it. We added stuff later, but that was the page placeholder. When I wrote it I was serious. You abide by the ONE RULE there will be no trouble EVER.

]CkB[Polaris
Teamwarfare Director of Operations

I almost hate to post anything after reading the Boss's input - really says it all and I think we discussed this very early on about honor and integrity..

Regarding the team roster, I think the members that show up to play the match should be the players that are on the roster. Now I realize that folks can sub for somebody and I would never know it but the likelyhood of them having the same player id or ip is nill and both are identifiable on the server.

I will trust that it is you that is using your name when your name shows up for a match. To do otherwise is a waste of time. Still the rule ought to be that the person is at least on your TWL team roster.

The rest of the original post I agree.

Yeah, I realized midmatch that one of our longtime players ([S|A|S]Maggot) had signed up on TWL as Mushroomhead, because he was changing his name back and forth at that time.

Originally posted by: [Geno]Nogsmoke

Originally posted by: Wascally Wabbit

The point is that they shouldn't be saying it in the first place. I would rather have a rule that says that all communication between the two teams in Global Chat (the only way to communicate between both teams) is restricted only to the captains. This way you have more responsible (hopefully) players that are communicating between the two teams. All other communication should be handled in team chat. You want to say something to the other team like gg, thats fine. But nothing more then that. Tell your captain if you have a problem, and the captain will talk in global chat. This can reduce all the bs with the teams being able to openly communicate to each other.

Mistyping a h for a j does occur sometimes, it'd be nice if there was some sort of safety net in case something offensive does accidentally (or not) gets presented to the other team. Accidentally broadcasting 'oh fuck, they just planted the bomb in the west turbine. GET THERE!' to the global chat not only may be offensive, but gives them a serious advantage. Should you lose the match for that? I don't think so.

No communication at all during a match makes for rather dry matches. I, for one, enjoy congratulating the other team if they kill me in some spectacular fashion, at the end of a gritty firefight, or being LAWed unexpectedly with half my team. A simple 'haha' or 'laf, nice'.

It's a game, try to have fun.

Nor did I state that gg or anything of that nature was inappropriate. In fact, if you read what you quoted, then you will see I said that. I'll point it out for you since you missed it the first time :"You want to say something to the other team like gg, thats fine. But nothing more then that."

I think gg, laff, lol, all are pretty much the same.

Sigh.

The point I was trying to make is that I don't want to be afraid of talking to the other team. I'd like a warning system set up that will cover errors in judgement, typing into the wrong channel, or congratulating someone in a manner they aren't familiar with (and may consider offensive, who knows).

We are not robots, people have personality that comes out in various ways. I don't want matches forfited because I slipped and perhaps used a 'questionable' word. "Hot Damn, you rocked me!" Could someone be offended? Sure. Should the match be forfited? Again, I say no. Further, I'd like an understanding that mistakes happen, and as long as you're told 'hey, quit it' and you do, all is forgiven.

It's a matter of intent. Did I intend to offend you with that? No. We're all just trying to have fun, and I don't think being a hardliner on language will contribute to that.

Since this horse stopped moving about 3 laps ago, I'm done with the topic. See you all on the battlefield.

Originally posted by: Wascally Wabbit

I would rather have a rule that says that all communication between the two teams in Global Chat (the only way to communicate between both teams) is restricted only to the captains. This way you have more responsible (hopefully) players that are communicating between the two teams. All other communication should be handled in team chat. You want to say something to the other team like gg, thats fine. But nothing more then that. Tell your captain if you have a problem, and the captain will talk in global chat. This can reduce all the bs with the teams being able to openly communicate to each other.

I agree with this...
Post edited by CAPTMORGAN at 6/9/2002 1:32:51 AM

How can you tell the intent behind a comment? If you can do it, then your a better man than I. It is fairly hard to tell the intent or what someone is thinking while typing. I guess this is your job LOL. Does the fact that a comment was not meant to be offensive, make it any less offensive to a person who is offended by it? No. As a league I would hope our players hold themselves to a higher level of gaming. Sportsmanship, leadership, integrity are all things that league members should strive for.

On the other hand, these matches should be fun. Why would we play games if we hated them? I agree there needs to be some changes made to the rules and I like many of the suggestions brought forward by Nogsmoke.
[RDH]Morbid

One of the great aspects of this game is competitiveness, and I THOUGHT the other was 'fun'. I certainly want the option of saying "nice LAW" or "dodge this" (before knifing a sniper) or "someone lose their canister?"

Imagine how boring sports would be if cross-talk was totally illegal? If there's an issue with insulting or unsportsmanlike play, take some screen shots and work it out then or later. I think Global Talk is fine- if someone can't handle seeing an accidental curse on screen, good luck surviving in this world. RLTW,

[KC]Foxhound

Yes Foxhound...we will not be banning global talk, that is just ludicrous. Polaris has already stated how he feels about this, and well...that's the way it's going to be here.
I think the main point is, don't repeatedly curse at the other team or fire off derogatory comments. If you want to be cocky (no pun intended) that's fine, just don't expect anyone to like you.


TWL Global Operations Ladder Administrator