Fast swapping?

I see ppl in pubs who jump and swap or crouch swap, is this allowed in TWL match ladders? How about the "new" press "1" and "L" at the same time then press "1" again, you will attach your silencer at much faster rates, what is the official rule, i personally dispise these tactics but if we are going to allow it i will have to learn how to use it, so that no one has an edge on me, Its technically not key binding because you can just press 2 buttons at once. I just really need a clear cut answer because i see many teams using it and i tell me match team to never use it.....

There is no rule to my knowledge about quick swapping, it is legal from my understanding but I'm not a admin.



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From FAQ

Originally posted by: Jack Kovanaama

Is “quick swapping” allowed?

Quick swapping guns and grenades IS allowed as long as you do it without multiple action key binds.

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Jack Kovanaama
TeamWarfare America's Army EU Competition Manager
Email: jack_kovanaama@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #twl_aa, #twl_mo

I didnt knew that worked for the silencer thx buzz

yes it works
Post edited by =RR=SHORTY at 4/20/2007 4:09:08 PM

What is the purpose of having this rule if you allow the quick weapon swapping?

Key binds that causes any variation in the normal speed of an action. An example of an illegal key bind would be one that allowed you to crawl at the pace of a run, or any bind that cuts the time it takes to perform a normal action.

Whereas with AA

- Fixed an exploit that allowed keybinds to be used to reduce weapon switching time.

Maybe because it doesn't say: "Fixed all exploits that allow keybinds..."

Unfortunately, people keep looking for ways to exploit the game. So, a catch all for the keybinds is needed.

Not all exploits can be fixed I know because it's just a part of developing. You will always have problems come on. I'm not arguing that. I am just wondering why TWL allows the people to use a well known exploit. It's technically "multiple action keybinds" because you have to hit a combo of buttons for it to work.

Originally posted by: {-SMAKU-}_AX51
Not all exploits can be fixed I know because it's just a part of developing. You will always have problems come on. I'm not arguing that. I am just wondering why TWL allows the people to use a well known exploit. It's technically "multiple action keybinds" because you have to hit a combo of buttons for it to work.

A question I would have for you is this: How would you police it? It can be prevented with CDC, and the new CVAR's, but what you can't do is catch someone using a key combination.

In the heat of a battle, have you ever pushed a couple keys at the same time on accident? How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone hit those keys together on purpose, versus an honest mistake?

Since you can't prove it beyond a doubt, you can only prevent the double action keybinds, but not the manual pushing of the two keys together.

In the heat of a battle, have you ever pushed a couple keys at the same time on accident? How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone hit those keys together on purpose, versus an honest mistake?

Mistakes happen but when you intentionally hit 2 buttons together like that (Jump and Switch Weapon), you intend on using a glitch. It's not just something that "accidently happens".

Originally posted by: {-SMAKU-}_AX51
In the heat of a battle, have you ever pushed a couple keys at the same time on accident? How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone hit those keys together on purpose, versus an honest mistake?

Mistakes happen but when you intentionally hit 2 buttons together like that (Jump and Switch Weapon), you intend on using a glitch. It's not just something that "accidently happens".

How do you think people find out about most of the exploits? They happen by accident and then they try to reproduce them.
The fast swapping glitch is not a keybind. A keybind is if you bind one key to execute more than one action.

How do you think people find out about most of the exploits? They happen by accident and then they try to reproduce them.

The fast swapping glitch is not a keybind. A keybind is if you bind one key to execute more than one action.

So you agree with me that it is a glitch. Now, yes people do find out about it due to accident but when you are using that gain an unfair advantage over another player, that is simply cheating.

Originally posted by: {-SMAKU-}_AX51

How do you think people find out about most of the exploits? They happen by accident and then they try to reproduce them.

The fast swapping glitch is not a keybind. A keybind is if you bind one key to execute more than one action.

So you agree with me that it is a glitch. Now, yes people do find out about it due to accident but when you are using that gain an unfair advantage over another player, that is simply cheating.

Why do you care? You're not on any ladder.

If at possible, I would like to hear the words of an admin on this. (preferably Moh-Aw)

Originally posted by: {-SMAKU-}_AX51
In the heat of a battle, have you ever pushed a couple keys at the same time on accident? How do you prove beyond a doubt that someone hit those keys together on purpose, versus an honest mistake?

Mistakes happen but when you intentionally hit 2 buttons together like that (Jump and Switch Weapon), you intend on using a glitch. It's not just something that "accidently happens".

It sure can be a mistake. A mouse with the wheeldown as change weapon, and a side button as jump.

My point was that there is no way to prove beyond a doubt that it was on purpose. It is possible to prove a double action keybind, but not when two actions are done at the same time.

I know what you are saying AX51, and agree with it. I am trying to show the point that the powers that be at TWL cannot do something against this glitch because they cannot be 100 percent positive that it isn't a mistake. That's why they can only police what they can prove, the same with anti cheat groups. They ban what they know to be certain, not what they think is a hack, but might be a graphics bug.

I guess people do not understand what a multiple action keybind is. it is a keybind that maps one key to multiple keys at once. For example hitting "L" would make you do multiple actions at once such as go prone and zoom at the same time with 1 press of a key.


Fast swapping is a game exploit that the devs have chosen not to fix. It can not be detected by PB or CDC as they it is built into the game. The only possible way of detection would be through lucky demos. Not a sure fire way to do anything.

How did the DEV's not choose to fix it when they got rid of the crouch/switch weapon one? If they got rid of that one, I would say they got rid of part of the problem so your statement their M@ddog is false.

As far as the demos, I have sent in demos with CSAR as the map and it was turned down by your crew because it did not "change the ending result of the match." with a guy pulling a gun out after shooting the RPG in 2 second.

Originally posted by: Jack Kovanaama
From FAQ

Originally posted by: Jack Kovanaama

Is “quick swapping” allowed?

Quick swapping guns and grenades IS allowed as long as you do it without multiple action key binds.

Quick swapping has been a part of this game for several versions now. The devs took out quick crouching. They did not remove quick swapping. Not all bugs are considered exploits at TWL, and this is a prime example of that.

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effingee
TeamWarfare NA Ladder Admin
Email: effingee@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #twl_aa,

Jumping back from the valve on Pipeline is considered a glitch in the rules but quick weapon swapping is not? Doesn't make sense.

The devs took out quick crouching. They did not remove quick swapping.

Well, what's the difference between the quick crouching and the jumping and switching weapon? It's technically the same glitch use.

It is virtually impossible for us to police it - the developers tried to remove it and were unable to 100% do it, so how are we expected to do better?

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eXplicit|TWL
TeamWarfare America's Army EU - Competition Manager
Email: explicit@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #teamwarfare, #twl_aa

Originally posted by: {-SMAKU-}_AX51
Jumping back from the valve on Pipeline is considered a glitch in the rules but quick weapon swapping is not? Doesn't make sense.

The devs took out quick crouching. They did not remove quick swapping.

Well, what's the difference between the quick crouching and the jumping and switching weapon? It's technically the same glitch use.

Like I said, obviously the devs did not successfully remove quick-swapping because people are still able to do it. The only difference between jump swapping and crouch swapping is that crouch swapping is no longer possible. Both of them have always been legal in TWL competition.

If we were to make such a thing illegal, the only way to investigate that somebody was indeed quick-swapping would be to watch a full demorec of that player. Watching a full match demo can take between one and two hours depending on the map and number of dead rounds. If a team disputes and all 4 players send in their demos, that's about 8 hours of review time to simply watch the demos. There is no fast forward or rewind, so if you miss something the first time, you have to watch the whole thing all over again. The demos themselves are buggy and inconclusive in many respects. The reason Jumping back from an objective while taking it is an illegal glitch is because it can be easily spotted the first time through watching a demo.

Quick swapping is a relatively easy thing to do and can be utilized by both teams. There is no reasonable way to police its use. The only possible way it can be removed from play is by the game developers themselves.

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effingee
TeamWarfare NA Ladder Admin
Email: effingee@teamwarfare.com
IRC: #twl_aa,

Quick swap is not something the Dev's can fix. That animation glitch has been around since the first release of this engine back in 1998.

Wanna complain about it still being in AA after all these years? Go bark up Epic's tree. While your at it, complain to Epic about the 100 or so other exploits that are a direct result of them never properly coding the Unreal engine. Then complain to them that their netcode has been the worst on the planet every since they screwed up v2.25 of the engine with that blasted 2.26 patch (the final one!) that would write an error to the main server log every five minutes.

Quick swap is part of AA because it's part of the engine. Just like terrain and object clipping.

Shall TWL ban someone getting a kill because they saw their oponents gun sticking through the wall and simply naded around the corner?

AX51 you have gotten enough responses from enough of the right people in twl but still you keep on about it they all have given you enough good reasons why the rule is what it is, you can keep posting but their responses are not gonna change to the answer you want. So it dont take a rocket scientist to figure the quick swap out learn it and move on just like everyone else had to do the first time they were killed because of it.