CTF Rules

A couple rules have been clarified to answer some niggly questions.

DEA has been ruled on, and the DZ selection time has tightened up to avoid confusion.

I wasn't aware DEA was an issue...

Since it has not been running during league play.

That *could* create an unfair advantage, and should not be used during league games.

Are there any other programs that can view text chat during a game?

The ones i mentioned in the rules can view text chat. I'm not aware of other programs.

How would anyone outside of those privy know if DEA was running? On another topic - Inactivity. What constitutes activity and what is 'Rest' time?
Post edited by HgB at 5/10/2002 12:34:08 AM

1. DEA - the easiest way to tell if DEA is running is to type "-help" in the server. If the program is running it will tell you.

2. Inactivity - If your clan does not initiate or accept any matches.

3. Rest - After a match your clan is giving a set period of time before a new challenge can be made. I believe it is displayed on the ranking page as "Cannot be challenged until ........"

Another way to tell if DEA is Active, ASK.

We Have no "privy".

Typing any of the user commands -help -status -stats -motd
will bring up the appropriate reply.

-feathers unruffling

Rules of the Game:
1) Win - at all costs.
2) Refer to Rule #1.

So that I understand the 'standard' DEA allows anyone connected to a server to type any of these commands and get a response that identifies DEA is running?

As easy as it was to implement the code to respond to these commands, what stops a 'modified version' running on a server from being built that ignores these commands and respond to others?

It's more important for clans and players and league organizers to understand that there are tools that some servers use to intercept messages intended for team use only and provide them to others as an edge in play.

Attempting to eliminate all possible permutations that can be used to display and forward team chat is a waste of time.

Unfortunately, there are some who need any edge they can get to win and they cheapen the game. Just as long as everyone knows whats going on, they can change their technique and strategy when on a server they don't have visibility to.

HgB,

In the day and age of everyone and their baby sister knowing how to program, nothing is to say that there will not be a modified version if someone wants to recode it.

However, knowing the original programmer, I can say with certainty that he will not deviate from the stated functions for purpose of subterfuge (being sneaky).

Here is the deal as I see it,

1. The program will not be run during the matches with the TTC. We do not need that minute advantage to win. If we play you, we play you using our skill and the outcome is based on that.

2.I am sure that the other teams in the ladder are going to playing according to #1.

3. I say the above with a bit of diplomacy so there is not any misunderstanding.

4. This is without diplomacy. If you are implying that we cheat, tell us to our face.

So ends this post

Nobody is going to accuse anyone of anything other than good sportsmanship or I'll get my whacking stick out.

This subject is closed.

Thank you.

havent seen a "heat" player have bad sportsmanship that isn't related to lag. and there is no possible way for a dedicated server to run a mod of the game. and if its not ded- only the host would be able to, but you would see the pings atleast in the 5000s. and, DEA just spams my MW chat screen horribly.

Another Question: In the CTF rules, it states that the server should be set with a 2 minute join in time. But further down, it states that in the event a team loses a player due to connectivity issues, the team may substitute the player immediately with someone from their roster. If the 2 minute join in time is set on the server, then no one will be able to join the game to substititue for another player after the 2 minutes are up. Is it the intent of the rules that if a team loses a player after the 2 minutes are up that they cannot bring in a substitute?

Good question Bruizer I saw that myself but I forgot all about it. I was wondering the same thing.
[BDM]Kovey




Black Dragon Mercs

i think it was if you leave aftrer 2 mins you have to come bac with a life down

lol that's TA Trapy. We are talking CTF here :P
[BDM]Kovey




Black Dragon Mercs

-confused- what about other team just gets +25 (a kill points) but i guess thats hard to keep up with...

To add to Bruizer's:

What would be the rule for mech selection for the replacement player. I think they should have to bring in the exact same configuration as the player that dropped. (I understand that the only thing that would be obvious is the mech chasis but observant people can also tell what weapons are being used by the way they look and hit.) This would insure that people dont use this as an excuse to get a different mech cause they brought in the wrong one.

Here is the section in question:

"In the event that a team loses a player due to connectivity issues, (or his Mom/Dad tells him to get the hell off the PC...LOL) the team may substitute the player immediately with someone from their roster. Substitute players, brought in during match, that are not eligible players, will force an immediate forfeiture on the part of the team they were playing for."

But under Server settings the join limit is set to 2 min.

First thanks for finding a point that needs clarification. It helps everyone in the long run.
Now lets clear this up..

The point of the 2 min rule is to prevent Mech changes and join lag. So if you get disconnected after the 2 min mark, too bad.

The quoted rule above can be read as... "In the event that a team loses a player during one GAME of the 2-3 game MATCH... due to connectivity issues...yadda yadda yadda"

A "match" being all 2-3 games is the key here.

I know that doesn't seem like the intention of that rule but it is how we will interpret it for CTF.
I will change the wording of the server settings area to make it more clear.

The problem is that the "General Rules" do not always fit perfectly with the game specific rules. When in doubt I would say go with the game specific rules and when clarification of discrepancies are found we will fix them.

Hope that clears things up a bit

Ok that makes sense Stingray thanks for the clarification.

We got hit with one of our guys dropping out in one of our games and with the 2 minute join in progress limit he wasn't able to return. Then you end up playing the rest of that game short. That's just the way the game goes though so just make sure your guys don't disconnect. :D

[BDM]Kovey




Black Dragon Mercs

Thanks, StingRay. So if I understand it correctly, if we lose a player during the first two minutes of a game, we cannot substitute another player. Only the disconnected player can come back in (if he is able to), and only within the first two minutes.

One other thought: We don't use the same eight players for all three games. We have enough players on the roster that we have been substituting players from game to game so that everyone on the roster gets a chance to play in at least one game. I assume that this is permitted, isn't it?

Substitution of players between games in a match (1 match = best 2 out of 3 games) can occur. Theoretically, if you have enough players you may have 24 different players playing during the course of 3 games (each 8 player playing 1 full game), subject to them starting each game and not being disconnected.

My concern about mech selection and whether people bring in the same mech has yet to be addressed. Well fellow CTFers, what are your thoughts on the issue?

A couple new paragraphs have been added to the rules to help clarify the lost connection re-join issue and server setting intent.

"If a player has connection problems and loses connection after the start of the game, he has 2 minutes to get back (server setting), and take the same mech he orignally dropped with. If he does not make it back in time his team will have to play short. This is to avoid join lag and mech switching during the game.

A different team member may connect and join the game within the two minutes as long as they are on the roster and they choose the same mech and config as the original player, again this is only to discourage mech switching after the game has started."

Hopfully this fully addresses the intent of the 2min join rule and the mech seletion process. There is no absolute method to determine if someone is taking advantage of it, but like all the rules, it's expected that player members will follow the intent.

Sounds good Stingray, well done.

Colonel Blade, The Texas Connection.
"Superior Thinking has always Overwhelmed Superior Force."

Thanks StingRay.

ok, as for DEA being on, a couple of times people on the other team have replied to things said only in team chat, strange eh?

oh also, i move that clusters be banned, it turns the game into whoever can get over and cluster the other teams D first, extremely frustrating and boring at the same time.

they also cause pretty hellacious video lag to anyone with a mediocre video card, im pretty sure thats why they are banned by default.
Post edited by Chappy at 6/4/2002 1:21:40 AM

Originally posted by: Chappy

ok, as for DEA being on, a couple of times people on the other team have replied to things said only in team chat, strange eh?

Are you accusing a team of running DEA during a match? If so you need to provide more information such as which team.

not a twl match, but it happened. something was mentioned about a laggy runner in our team chat, the laggy runner on the other team replied, saying "my ping is normal, it must be you guys." strange indeed.
Post edited by Chappy at 6/4/2002 11:37:02 AM

just use RW unless its not important.

I've been on both sides of Clusters. First I was running in a Uller and kept getting killed by Clusters.

Then i played strictly defense with my ERlaser/Gauss combo Daishi, and i had a lot of difficulty doing damage to Ullers... so i switched to Clusters. Ta da, you can actually do damage!

Then last night I was playing on Hampster and Clusters were banned, so it was back to the Laser/Gauss combo. That game the runners had a free for all, NO ONE could stop either teams runners, they basically waltzed in and took the flag whenever they wanted to.

The point is.. in a world of no-damage and lag shielded Ullers, would it not unbalance the game to only eliminate Clusters?

i dont know, i can see your point stingray, but ive never had any luck with clusters. im actually having better luck hitting things now that i turned my stats back off. i think it causes a minute amount of lag, but enough to throw off your shots and such.

i realize that most people are against me on this. but when you think about it, clusters put alot of strain on a server too, it has to account for all those bombs and explosions going off. its even worse when there 3-4 people shooting them off. i dont know, i just think it would be better off if clusters were banned.

and honestly, to balance the game, youd need to go back to vengence. i played there the other night. no x pulse, no ullers, no lag really, the shots i connected on, did damage. fun times. i hope they get this back with the 3.0 point release.

only thing i can use to hit ullers is a swarm of LBX10 n 20s cause of the spread. but even then its hard to kill em. clusters do cause lotta lag, so i used Longtom dashys, more damage still spread

I read this a while back and noticed a difference when everyone follows it. The recommendation is that everyone set the game speed to 56k (toggled in game on the connection tab). The reason being that you are playing as fast as the slowest person.

Unless you know that everyone in the game is at a certain speed (i.e 384 DSL) then having the setting lower will keep the lag difference down.

I am not saying that it is going to Fix your problems completely, but it will cut them down. Give it a try for a week.

about DEA,

I don't have a problem with people useing DEA in the match, it actually would be cool to see what was going on but we always have to wait for someone to switch channels on gamevoice to tell us lol (i.e. dark-e switches over to the game channel to find out the score and comes back and tells us). I don't know if it could be viewed as cheating, i mean, if the team running DEA was n00bish and did try to tell the people playing what was going on, and they really wanted to do it... they would not need DEA. Chances are, if your on their server and the owner wants to cheat... the owner of a dedicated server can see both team chats right? So whats to stop the owner of the server to get on his clans voice chat and tell them what is being said, or when somthing is going to happen..... you don't need DEA for that.... just a thought....
Post edited by Scrap~Metal at 6/7/2002 1:56:20 AM

the gangster has spoken! lol
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-------------------p puts the 2 p's in pimp------------------
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Can we just let this die there no point to it ok..





Post edited by Man_Byrd at 6/8/2002 1:12:52 PM

Don't Tempt Me To Unleash
The One Legged
Space Chickens!

this thread just helps me realise that team king of the hill is imposible to cheat at, because as long as HEs are banned theres nothing the enemey would know except that the other team is going for the hill

Originally posted by: Trap¥

this thread just helps me realise that team king of the hill is imposible to cheat at, because as long as HEs are banned theres nothing the enemey would know except that the other team is going for the hill

this post wins the "from left field" award.

golf clap . . .

Rules of the Game:
1) Win - at all costs.
2) Refer to Rule #1.

Originally posted by: _StingRay_

A different team member may connect and join the game within the two minutes as long as they are on the roster and they choose the same mech and config as the original player, again this is only to discourage mech switching after the game has started."

Ok, I hate to be a pill, but I still see a problem. It will be nearly impossible for the replacement player to use the same mech with the same configuration as the player who just got disconnected. I would recommend that the replacement player has to take on the same role as the disconnected player. In other words, a runner replaces a runner, a defender/chaser replaces a defender/chaser. Otherwise, someone is bound to whine that the disconnected cougar was replaced with an Uller, or worse, the disconnected cougar with reactive armor was replaced with a cougar with reflective armor.

Because the only time a replacement player can join a game in progress is the first two minutes, there is no time to get a feel for the game so that it would be advantageous to take advantage of a more liberal reading of this rule.

For the TTC, we know in advance who the runners and defenders are. We have an alternative player on standby to jump in and replace whoever gets disconnected and to use a runner or a defender, depending on who got disconnected. I would hope this would meet the intent of the rules. If not, then I think we need more discussion on this.