Know your Rules!

There have been serveral disturbing incidents lately which clearly indicate that many of the teams playing are not reading or observing the rules.

In particular the server settings and informing your opponent in the proper amount of time what DZ they have if your picking it.

Bottom line read up some of the rules were revised a while back it will keep both you and us from getting headaches.


Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

Server settings as I understand it are set in stone.

The drops rule gets a bit fuzzy. MG's take on that rule is if you want to know what DZ's your getting, ask. Course if we give you the DZ's we expect the same in return

This works because if we withold the DZ's, and THEY withhold the DZ's we're both guilty and no advantage goes to anyone. But we're still able to catter to those who need to know the drops ahead of time.

Reason being, we practice all drop zones versus all drop zones before we make a decision. And sometimes that takes 3 or 4 practice sessions on a map with multiple DZ's. If you have first pick on a map with 4 DZ's then we have to investigate 12 possible senario's. LOL Being ready for anything is always our goal, though not always true.

That is my point please read the rules.

"Punctuality

Map side choices and order must be relayed to the attacking team no more than 24 hours after the attacker schedules the match. The attacking team also must relay side choice for the Tiebreaker map no later than 24 hours after scheduling the match. Server choice must be communicated in the "Match Communication" section in your team's ladder control panel 48 hours prior to match time. Failure to keep these deadlines may result in your forfeit of these options at the opposing team's (and admin's) discretion."

You have 24 hours after the match is set to give the DZs to the other team.




Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

we tell em the drop zones 24 hours after a match is confirmed?... oh... not once the game is about to start? oops... but otherwise i think we should all do the punctuality rule. took us 2 solid hours to find the server supposed to play on then decided to just play it later..and later.. and later.. now a week later...

I read the rules Sharp, the problem is not everyone likes that one or cares to play it that way.

Up until our match with WoH no one had asked or gave us any drop info, and even in the WoH match we did not receive nor get a request for DZ's. And we rather like it this way. The reason being is that we ENJOY putting our heads together and run around a map and go, yeah but what if we put a bunch of vultures here... Or WHAT IF they took drop so and so. Hell during the Hel/MG fight we where at somewhat of a quandry due to the fact that the maps combined with the drop choices gave Hel many viable options and we practed for each. I thought they would take drops such and such and Limey mainted another. Limey was right in the end. The point of this tail? That by leaving the drops open to speculation incorperates a whole lvl of tactics, and that tactics can actually sway the tide of the fight. If you know in advance it makes all tactics somewhat transpartent. IF AC knew the drops we where giving them in the VBase drop they might have figured out our tactic, as it was, our tactic combined with theirs made a very odd, comical, and very INTENSE fight. (They had the lead in points, but only 2 ullers left. Could they keep the ullers alive our would our slow LBX Thannys corner them?). To give ourselves the option to play these type of games that I know several other clans enjoy (Xmechs I think at one point said they like the suspense as well as others) then we tend to leave that option open. If a team wants to enforce the rule, all they have to do is follow the rules and we will comply. If they do not then it becomes a gentlemens agreement. Maybe we should make this more formal, but it is the way currently that MG handles this particular rule at this time. We have never received any complaints of this until the WoH fight, which by chance they did not wish to give us our drops, only wanted theirs.

I hope this explains our current stance on the issue. This way a team that wishes to know the drops due to time constraints can do so simply by inquiring or following the rules (giving us our drops for example) and we shall promplty post our drops within 4 hrs.

Also please excuse the somewhat lengthy post. I had some time on my hands and decided to expand from just a response to how we've come to handle it this way. If this is still a problem, or you feel that we should handle it in a diffrent way, then of course we will change our stance to corospond with TWL standards.

-Artic
Post edited by {MG} Artic at 3/14/2002 6:26:08 PM

The match info should be generated FIRST thing. No more waiting for date/times. The DZ's should have to be enter in before the date/time can be offered/accepted.

Artic I don't have a problem with you or any other team wanting to do the DZ selection that way. My problem is your expecting other teams to ask you for the DZ assignment when you should give it to them. You can do it your way if you create a GA with that team in the match coms.

IE: "We prefer to do DZ selection at battle time. Please let me know if this is agreeable."

You can not reverse it and assume a team does not want the DZ if they don't ask. I get complaints about this issue behind the scenes.

The rules are the standard to follow. The gentlmans aggrement is a way around the rules if both teams aggree to change said rule for a match.



Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

K we can do it that way.

I just got a lil steemed when peeps expect us to give them the DZ's but don't have the curtosy to do the same for us. I have this warped idea that if you expect us to give you yours, then get the ball rolling and give us ours. Nobody has, hence the warped idea as to why I don't like given out DZ's.

But then again, you all knew I was warped before all this started didn't you?
Post edited by {MG} Artic at 3/14/2002 11:08:22 PM

Lol if they don't send em to me I'll fix dat right up.





Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

As I was part of the team at the time to the WoH match that Arctic was refering to, I'd like to clear up one part of the WoH stance at that time. As it's been said before, WoH is made up of Weekend warriors and due to the changes on TWL at that time the auto generation program did not force MG to issue a date to play during the weekend. We asked them if we could do a GA and play during the weekend and they generously accomodated us. However now we only had 2 or 3 days to the match. Prior to the MG match we gave our dz's to another team before the match and they did not give us any....Due the the fact that MG got to pick both dz's for the first map and got to pick first for the second, it was decided to let MG make the first move... Maybe WoH should have forced the issue and simply asked. But then it already looks like WoH has been made out to be whinners who hide behind the rules just to make life hard on other teams. (not exactly a direct quote from one of the admins, but close) Forgive me if I sound bitter.... I freakin am!!!

I feel your pain though, Arctic cause I didn't like the overall tone of that match either.

WoH, did not have enough ppl online in the middle of the week in order to practice every combination of dz's during the 2 or 3 day period. Like I said in another thread, this rule should be enforced, automated, or quickly agreed upon by teams during each match.

Thx for hearin me vent

Just when you thought I was gonna shut up..... hehehehe
Post edited by Crâsh at 3/15/2002 2:32:14 AM


Crâsh
« Echo Squadron »

That is the purpose of this thread Crash as you can see I have taken action to make sure that not only this rule but all the rules are read. If teams do not want to follow the rules the penalties will be enforced. In your case though lets be perfectly honest both teams did plenty of "making up their own rules" and not following the rules laid out by TWL. I have offered to repair the situation as if the match never occured but I have not heard a word back from Cyberscraps in 2 days. What to do?


Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

I think Sharp hit it on the head. Both teams assumed things would go this way or that based on previos gentlemen agreements. In MG's case if was the fact that EVERY match we fought in up until the WoH fight, drops where NEVER mentioned. We have been operating in darkness so long that we've learned to live with it. Plus we think its more fun

WoH though we're used to a diffrent set up, and when we got together, lets just say things didn't work out very well. There IS an edit I'd like to make though. When I said that we had never been asked during match set up. AKA asked and promptly gave us our DZ's. We then gave them theirs and things went off well. (with one hitch. Limey forgot that we still had to tell them where we would drop on one map. This was later rectified, but I aplogize to AKA again anyways)

Anyways, heres what I purpose we do to change this. Most of this is just restating others

Make a FORMAL anouncement in the match comms on what your intentions are. Note that the rules are the rules and if one team wants the DZ's and the other does not, then of course the rules are inforced.

Make Drops generated before the day/time selection. I realize that everyone is very busy right now, and that time for this change is not going to be soon, but I would like to see it added to the offical "things to-do list"

Maybe to expand the report to 48 hours after selection? Sometimes there are a LOT of drops to cover.

Ask that all teams take a good look at this rule and know their role and opion on it. Many teams already have an idea of what they prefer. This way people know they want the DZ's can get them with just a gentle reminder.

So what do you think Sharp?

I think 48 hours might be reasonable as long as the match is not planned to start within 72 hours.

The Dev team just did a whole bunch of work for me putting up the new ladder and tourney I think they might have me on the back burner for a little bit at this point. We will try to implement something for the DZ's eventually. I don't think it is critical as long as the teams communicate.


Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

Well, this is just a note to ponder.
In the 2 planetary leagues that I am CO, you never ever know the DZ until 15 minutes before drop. Why? Because an attacker is never going to disclose strategy prior to attacking you. How successful would D-day have been if we told the Germans when and where we were coming?
From a personal stand point, this rule deviates from any War, being games or real life, a total contradiction.
Sharpe, the last week you have earned my respect whole heartedly, you do your job well and are as unbiased as I've seen to date.
So, I ask you if this rule is subject to discussion?
Usually when something new is slated for vote the majority wins, and if something is contested, that is already written, it usually takes a 66.7% or 75% vote to change.
I mean if you put this up for vote and a specific percentage of the Commanders of all TA units voted to change, would you consider the option?
This league is based on players and your objective is to maintain a playable atmosphere for all and build the league up as high as you can. How better than player input?
And as for taking longer? I don't think so, rules state you have 30 minutes from scheduled battle time to drop. Sheesh you can do ALOT in 30 minutes.
Post edited by {MG}DruidKing at 3/15/2002 1:15:25 PM

Pretty much everything is up for grabs as far as rules are concerned. My main focus has always been to avoid stagnation on the ladders. Anything that improves the enjoyment of the game for the majority of players is ok in my book. I suggest you start another thread discussing this idea so people can see what is happening in the title.

Once in a while I will go against the grain because I feel that in the long run things will be appreciated but never said like adding new maps.]

EDIT: BTW I have never had a problem negotiating the DZs the day of either. All the experienced teams know exactly where each DZ is on every map anyway it just seems to be a formality.


Post edited by Sharpe at 3/15/2002 1:30:32 PM

Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

My only beef is where someone controls both drops and places you in a pincher at the last moment. Imagine the Allies waiting until D-Day and telling the Germans "OK we got our strategy down we think... we're gonna get in our bombers and tanks and you guys go stand in that open field"

Not realistic to warfare for the attackers to tell the defender where he's going to defend from anyhow. (besides the 7 lives to get it done either)

Anyway, I agree with DruidKing and commend you as the most fair admin I've personally dealt with Sharpe... Mad Khan's not too shabby either

As far as CyberScraps is concerned.... I'm not on WoH now adays so that's outta my hands.... but then it was when I was on WoH also... only so much a team captain is allowed to do there. I do know that WoH is in the middle of a major restructure and that CyberScraps is also in the middle of Comp upgrades if that helps you any.






Crâsh
« Echo Squadron »

Rgr that Crash thanks for the update .. I am only saying that because it is not like I don't want to help I just can't if I can not get in touch with the "Capt of the team".

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

I have to post on this subject somwhere and sometime. I do not agree with giving out DZ's in adavnce. forcing someone to tell the enemy where they are gonna be just doesnt seem right. Think of this, if that is to be done then why not disclose mech selection at the same time, they are both critical strategy points. While talkin about DZ selection, why not make all selections either challenger/defender or defender/challenger and do away with the ability for one team to choose both drops. Like previously stated why would the enemy even listen to you if you told him to stand in the open field so you can beat on them. Also, would it be a good idea for the selection to be in the challengers favor? In this manner it would force teams to be more aggresive in the ladders as attacking would be to their advantage and it would be harder to sit at the top the whole time.
I would recommend..

Challenger/Defender
Defender/Challenger
Challenger/Defender

I also would recommend that dz selection not be disclosed till the match.

Just my 4.923 cents

I can see your point Sauron and I might aggree if not for 2 things.

1. Even if you give the DZ at the last second the experienced teams already know where your going to be.

2. Generally an army (in real life) that is attacking is going to have a decent idea where the enemy is before they deploy.

Defensively is a different story they might not even know an enemy is present never mind the location. If MS had made the interface so you could pick your DZs while hidden from your enemy you might have more of a valid point in my eyes. It would be awesome if you could pick your DZ and have it be hidden. If you choose the same DZ as the other team it randomly assigns them to each team. Now that would be fun you really wouldnt know where anyone was starting from.

Again I am not making a judgment on which way is best this is just my opinion on what has been stated so far.


Lead MW4 Ladder Admin
Sharpe

ICQ#2455970
AIM#Sharpe22BT
Sharpe@teamwarfare.com

I thought this situation was taken care of but obviously not after this evenings questions.

Please read the rules to every league you are in not just the ones you want to.

I won't bring up specifics but please don't argue with another team that clearly knows the rules and are quoting them.

Thank you for your time
TWL TA Admin
VISHNU

Zone- CSS_SK_VISHNU
VISHNU@teamwarfare.com
ICQ 99876732

Why not let the automation pick the DZ's in advance and be done with it?