Spinfusor and Missile Launcher

Please remember this thread is for discussing what I think should be changed in Renegades. Discuss, but please don't flame.

A couple days ago Elf sent me a T1 Renegades Movie. He said I should check it out, since I missed out on T1. So I watched it, and it included the most amazing MAs I've seen. I mean this guy shot a disc and hit a flag carrier high and the sky and caught the flag as it came down. Some amazing stuff, and Elf told me this kind of stuff took SKILL.

So I'm like, why isn't this happening in T2 Renegades? Why don't I see amazing MAs, actually HELPING THE TEAM. So then Elf told me it's probably the missile launcher, everyone uses it, it's effective, easy to use, does damage, and gets the job done.

Now why can't the spinfusor be as effective, but requiring SKILL? Now a guy could come into Renegades now and be good with a disc, but not do very much damage because we spawn in merc and snipers will snipe them before they get close.

So I propose these changes:

Up the spinfusor's damage some where in between it's current damage and the missile launcher's damage.

Now for the missile launcher. I noticed in Tricon2 Practice Mode that a locked missile does more damage then a dumbfired one, which is good.

So down the dumbfired missile's damage (a bit below the disc, if it's above people will still be using it), but keep the locked missile the same for taking out vehicles.

Some of you Engineers might be asking what about those nasty bursters? Well the missile will still have the same blast radius so you can still rocket them into your turrets. And maybe now you'll think about putting the disc in your loadout? I'm an Engy so I understand bursters are a pain, but with a well placed disc and turrets that burster will be toast.

I hope some people agree, if not please tell WHY you disagree, don't just post "that would suck".

The missile launcher is already limited by its low ammo capacity. If there is any change to the rocket launcher, it should be reducing the kickback, and not the damage.
Post edited by Arcsim at 12/3/2002 5:00:42 PM

Oh no, not the missle launcher---- I say the missle launcher is fine, and if Elf or you (not a flame) wants to bring Tribes1 renegades into this he should see how FN powerful the rocket launcher is in T1 renegades... it would shoot you 20x as far as the T2 ones, and I am not even exagerrating.
Post edited by -=Apocalypse=- at 12/3/2002 5:00:22 PM

There was a rocket launcher in Tribes 1 Ren as well, and it was way more powerfull then the disc. So that logic is flawed. The reason you saw more of that in T1 ren was because most of the matches were spawn matches. The bases were so close together and with beacons you'd be raped at the start. Also, things like Inventory stations and Generators did NOT have shiedling in T1, so a spawn could fuck your shit up in a hurry. It's just my opinion, but I'd have to disagree with your changes.

ok...now i feel like such a newb...ignore this thread kthx.
Post edited by Dark|Dragon at 12/3/2002 5:02:51 PM

True, the blast radius of the rocket launcher was about 20X greater in T1, however the damage it dealt was not. An MA with a disc dealt alot more damage than a rocket.

I agree that the disc launcher is not even a shell of what it once was in T1, but in order to bring it back to prominence I think too much would have to be changed. I guess we'll just have to live w/ it.

I mean, I would definitely like to see more disc use...there was nothing better than watching a good disc chaser leading a flag carrier and thoroughly owning him...I just know by the general attitude of T2 Ren that this change won't be well received or even considered. Rocket pussies have become the norm, and you can't very well lessen the damage of their favorite weapon.

~Ace~

Originally posted by: Dark|Dragon

...and it included the most amazing MAs I've seen.

...So I'm like, why isn't this happening in T2 Renegades?

A couple comments:

1) The reason those MAs made it into the movie is that they are not normal shots--they are the exception, not the norm. In fact, they're just as likely "lucky" shots as good ones. I've seen many tribes movies, and yes they're incredible, but I've had my own incredible (or lucky, whatever) shots.

2) Renegades has its own amazing things that base doesn't. For example, since the railgun and sniper rifle don't take energy to use, a player has to learn to fly, point, and shoot at moving targets which are sometimes 2-3 times farther away than in base. This takes as much skill as using a spinfusor at closer targets.
 
--Glanzer

I know those aren't normal shots -- but you'll never see those in T2 Ren. The disc just isn't used enough.

Originally posted by: Ace13

True, the blast radius of the rocket launcher was about 20X greater in T1, however the damage it dealt was not. An MA with a disc dealt alot more damage than a rocket.

Well if this is true wouldn't my idea work? Maybe up the blast radius a bit? But not as much as T1, because this is T2.

Originally posted by: Dark|Dragon

I know those aren't normal shots -- but you'll never see those in T2 Ren. The disc just isn't used enough.

my 2 cents.

i use the disc as much as possible. in matches while im chasing its my weapon of choice.. I feel as though i am failrly proficent at it and i can MA you or lead you while skiing you or whathave you. being a t1 ren vet, thats all ppl played with as mentioned above, so when t2 ren came out i figured the disc was the weapon to use so thats what i did..

im dreading the new patch though.. i got to learn it all over again.. the disc isnt random now and its not effected by gravity.. oh well

it also shoots straight. which is a plus.

Originally posted by: Glanzer

Originally posted by: Dark|Dragon

...and it included the most amazing MAs I've seen.

...So I'm like, why isn't this happening in T2 Renegades?

2) Renegades has its own amazing things that base doesn't. For example, since the railgun and sniper rifle don't take energy to use, a player has to learn to fly, point, and shoot at moving targets which are sometimes 2-3 times farther away than in base. This takes as much skill as using a spinfusor at closer targets.

he was comparing t1 ren to t2 ren... not base and ren. just to clear that up

And please remember I'm looking at the damage of the RL being the problem, NOT how far it launches you.

Another point is the spinfusor isn't used as much as it's should. CuDa, that's great that you use the disc, but wouldn't you rather is be as effective as the ML?
Post edited by Dark|Dragon at 12/3/2002 6:40:25 PM

yeah thats the problem, gotta learn to shoot it straight

people in T1 got flamed big time if they used a rocket launcher I think thats why people stopped using it. I prefer discs over rockets becuase there more challenging and a challenge to me is fun

Originally posted by: Zooy

people in T1 got flamed big time if they used a rocket launcher I think thats why people stopped using it. I prefer discs over rockets becuase there more challenging and a challenge to me is fun

i wouldn't care if i got flamed, the ML is an effective weapon that doesn't take any skill. how bout making the spinfusor that way, but keeping the ML as a vehicle destroyer/people launcher.

i just knock ppl around with the shockwave cannon :P

I think the main reason that the missle is used more than the disc is because it can lock onto planes. People usually walk around with the missle launcher ready to use incase they come across a plane, then someone comes around the corner and they already have the missle launcher on hand so why switch to a disc. It was not used very much in T1 except by engys. The blast radius was greater in T1, i cant remember what damage it did. Would the rocket be used as much if it was not able to lock onto stuff? In all the matches i have played, i have not been chased or killed by a missle that was fired onto the ground.

BTW ITS A MISSLE ONCE AGAIN DO YOU WANT IT TO COME OUT OF THE BARREL AND GIVE YOU FLOWERS WITH HUGS AND BIG KISSES

But everyone needs to get it through there head that this is not T1, it is not gonna be T1 and if you want it to be T1 then go and play T1.
Post edited by oSpriteo at 12/3/2002 6:52:51 PM

The rocket launcher knocks people back almost as far as the shockwave and deals damage at the same time. What i'm saying is that the rocket launcher damage should be untouched, but the knockback should be reduced.

How about we leave the ML alone since nerfing is bad. Just up the disk damage some. While we are at it guess we should also consider upping damage on the plasma gun and the flamethrower too. This would take some of those lesser used weapons and make them more useful.

SD

Originally posted by: oSpriteo

But everyone needs to get it through there head that this is not T1, it is not gonna be T1 and if you want it to be T1 then go and play T1.

oSpriteo, I'm not trying to say "lets make T1 Ren with better graphics kthx."

i'm just asking for a small change that will make the disc more useful, aren't we always looking for balance? i'm just using T1 as a comparision. i know i'd be against making the ML's radius the same as T1.

my definition of balance:

all weapons/armors have their pros and cons and no weapons/armors are used more then others.

Hes an idea. Since the disk is hard to use make it so it has the same damage to a merc, as when a light is hit with a disk in base/classic mod. This way more people will try and learn disk then just point and shoot missile skill with a blast radius of 50,000,000,000 cm.2 and can launch you to the next server and back with it doing just as much damage as a frekin mortar. GET IT!!!!!!

omg win SF.

and please don't go off-topic, yes this will affect spawn but that's not the point. we want more people using spin cause it takes skill.

Originally posted by: Dark|Dragon

Originally posted by: -=Apocalypse=-
And I thought the disc damage was 50--- plus if the disc damage was to be increased, then the blasters should be replaced by the hyper blasters again.

And he never said there was a possibilty

Disc dmg is 50, i'm saying up it to 60.

Doc didn't give a flat out "no" he just said "not at this time".

Yeah I know I was just FN around --- IF the disc was increased in DMG that would kinda change the Duel ladder too. O' well, I give up, this topic has come up hundreds of time and I am too lazy to keep replying to them. Anyways, anyone notice or mention the new alien bug? After you cloak, you stay cloaked even when the beacon runs out, but when you fire your gun you begin to flash (like scout with a cloak pack when he begins shooting)
Post edited by -=Apocalypse=- at 12/4/2002 6:48:33 PM

leave them alone
kthanx

Actually Apoc, I made a demo of that and sent it to doc & priml.
Post edited by Dark|Dragon at 12/4/2002 6:49:30 PM

Originally posted by: Devill_Dog

If spawn was as good an armor as any other what would be the point of keeping gens/Inv's up? I don't mind chasing in spawn on occasion but in general I would rather not ever use spawn. Why should they be able to take out D...I can't think of a good reason. As for the pubs not having people, you must be on the old patch. I went to play the new ren today and both the aether and p9 were full. Sadly no matter what is done with ren not everyone will be happy. Hell, not everyone was happy before, don't see why that would change now.

This is pointless most of you all never even played T1 to see what im talking about.

All im saying in t1 spawn was a valuable armor. You didnt need to have the inv and gens up the enite game proven by the last year of the OGL ladder.
Even during that last year on the OGL top 10 there was still armor in those "spawn" matches. But it wasnt all armor and it wasnt all spawn. It was a good even balance, something that t2 ren is missing.
And no i havnt been playing ren on the old patch cause i havnt played any ren since Feb.

Originally posted by: DigitalFiction

leave them alone
kthanx

that's the exact reply i asked not to be posted.

Originally posted by: Dark|Dragon

I hope some people agree, if not please tell WHY you disagree, don't just post "that would suck".

Originally posted by: o c e a n

Originally posted by: Devill_Dog

If spawn was as good an armor as any other what would be the point of keeping gens/Inv's up? I don't mind chasing in spawn on occasion but in general I would rather not ever use spawn. Why should they be able to take out D...I can't think of a good reason. As for the pubs not having people, you must be on the old patch. I went to play the new ren today and both the aether and p9 were full. Sadly no matter what is done with ren not everyone will be happy. Hell, not everyone was happy before, don't see why that would change now.

This is pointless most of you all never even played T1 to see what im talking about.

All im saying in t1 spawn was a valuable armor. You didnt need to have the inv and gens up the enite game proven by the last year of the OGL ladder.
Even during that last year on the OGL top 10 there was still armor in those "spawn" matches. But it wasnt all armor and it wasnt all spawn. It was a good even balance, something that t2 ren is missing.
And no i havnt been playing ren on the old patch cause i havnt played any ren since Feb.

Then who are you to come in here and tell us how we should run this game and how it should be changed if you don't even play it on a regular basis?

Plus, we are pretty much happy with the way T2 Ren has been made because we have gotten used to it.
Post edited by -=Apocalypse=- at 12/4/2002 6:52:37 PM

Forgive me if I'm mistaken here, but I fail to see why in the world people want T2 ren to be like T1 ren...because afaik, T1 ren still exists with a community not all that much smaller than this one...if T1 ren servers are now completely empty, and no one ever plays it, then I can see your reasoning (though this is still a different game, and players have become accustomed to, and love, this one), but if there are in fact people still consistently playing T1 ren, then there's no reason to make a duplicate copy of the same thing here...

Exxxxxactly! As I have been trying to get people to see.

Number of X's exceeds TWL standards. Ban code enforced on Apoc.

Originally posted by: -=Apocalypse=-

Originally posted by: o c e a n

Originally posted by: Devill_Dog

If spawn was as good an armor as any other what would be the point of keeping gens/Inv's up? I don't mind chasing in spawn on occasion but in general I would rather not ever use spawn. Why should they be able to take out D...I can't think of a good reason. As for the pubs not having people, you must be on the old patch. I went to play the new ren today and both the aether and p9 were full. Sadly no matter what is done with ren not everyone will be happy. Hell, not everyone was happy before, don't see why that would change now.

This is pointless most of you all never even played T1 to see what im talking about.

All im saying in t1 spawn was a valuable armor. You didnt need to have the inv and gens up the enite game proven by the last year of the OGL ladder.
Even during that last year on the OGL top 10 there was still armor in those "spawn" matches. But it wasnt all armor and it wasnt all spawn. It was a good even balance, something that t2 ren is missing.
And no i havnt been playing ren on the old patch cause i havnt played any ren since Feb.

Then who are you to come in here and tell us how we should run this game and how it should be changed if you don't even play it on a regular basis?

Plus, we are pretty much happy with the way T2 Ren has been made because we have gotten used to it.

Im just someone who played t1 ren for a few years and t2 ren for a few months and gave up on it as did many others. Do what you want with it.

Oh BTW Apoc I dont remember coming in here and telling you all that you had to run renegades a certain way. After t2 being out for 2 years and ren being in the state its in im positive it will never be the same compeition wise it was in t1. I even tried to make the point that i was not in here trying to bash ren (seeing that i play classic).

If you didnt play T1 ren in top 10 or top 20 competition in t1 the excitement in those matches was 100 times better than any t2 matches base or ren. I would take a t1 ren style match over t2 classic match anyday

Originally posted by: Free Bagel

Forgive me if I'm mistaken here, but I fail to see why in the world people want T2 ren to be like T1 ren...because afaik, T1 ren still exists with a community not all that much smaller than this one...if T1 ren servers are now completely empty, and no one ever plays it, then I can see your reasoning (though this is still a different game, and players have become accustomed to, and love, this one), but if there are in fact people still consistently playing T1 ren, then there's no reason to make a duplicate copy of the same thing here...

more people still pub t1 ren than they do t2 ren. and almost as many teams compete still in t2 ren as you all have. (thats compete actively not just sit idle on a ladder)
Post edited by o c e a n at 12/4/2002 8:17:30 PM

Not to sound unfriendly but it sounds like you need to go back to t1 ren....its still there and there is no reason to make a duplicate. Why would you play t2 classic if you think t1 ren is more fun?
Thats my last post not on your topic D dragon =P. Back to your disk question...In order to keep it "balanced", if you increase the power of something there would usually be a decrease elswhere. Don't think you actually thought the disk was unbalanced though, you seemed to indicate an interest in seeing it used more.(esp for ma's) If this is the case, a change is not needed.
Post edited by Devill_Dog at 12/4/2002 8:24:42 PM

Not to sound unfriendly either Devil but the old "why dont you go back to t1 ren" argument is not valid. The graphics suck in t1. And if you will read what I said, "t1 ren style", not the actual game. And for now classic is the closest thing to that.

K well whatever.

ocean, if you don't play ren, then why do u care?

ur right my bad

So actually instead of playing ren all of these teams quit t2 all together of quit until base++ came out. Now that classic is out people are able to go just as fast as they can in ren but not have to worry about people shooting rockets at them the whole game. Thats why ren players are leaving for classic (so i have been told).

Amen.

I loved b++ and Classic is hella fun. And my disc skill is actually worth something!

And to those who say that the disc damage is 50 or whatever and the RL's damage is 55 - who cares? The RL's splash damage is greater than that of the stormhammer, and the radius is greater too I think.

You know what I don't get about the RL in Ren? Why the FUCK is it available for use against ground forces? It was meant for taking out things that are in the AIR..


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i posted the dmg thing so people could compare, and want the disc upped to 60.

and how is upping the disc dmg making t2 ren a replica of t1 ren?