Zero Tolerance on cheats and those harboring cheaters

CompetitionDirectorSenior OperationsTWL Contributor

2005-02-25 00:01

TWL has always had a tough stance on cheaters. We have recently solidified a site wide policy to also ban anyone caught cheating in other leagues or in public servers. As we have seen in the past as well as what we have experienced, those who cheat will do so no matter what the situation. You cheat in public you will more than likely try to cheat in a league match.

Recently we have had a couple of episodes of people cheating in non_TWL matches. Those who have had concrete evidence or have admitted to hacking publicly in posts and emails have been removed from TWL.

Some of those players as you can imagine are very upset. We have received emails informing us that they will play with multiple teams and will distribute their hacks among those teams. I do urge teams to use caution in taking on new recruits. Any team found harboring any of these banned players will be removed and the founder & captains also suspended or banned from all TWL games. If you have any doubts on a player please email an admin and we will try to validate your recruits.

To some of you, these actions may seem a bit harsh. MOH has a history of being saturated in hacks. That doesn't mean we don't attempt to clean up our ladders or our league. Taking a harsh stance will promote a league where the remaining teams are here for the fun and competition not the kiddie script games.

[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

maverick!

TWL Member

2005-02-25 00:32

Cool.

|3eano

TWL Member

2005-02-25 01:32

Much respect to you and your crew SpaZ

.:|bAd|:. MM

TWL Member

2005-02-25 04:06

Originally posted by: [D12C]SpaZ
TWL has always had a tough stance on cheaters. We have recently solidified a site wide policy to also ban anyone caught cheating in other leagues or in public servers. As we have seen in the past as well as what we have experienced, those who cheat will do so no matter what the situation. You cheat in public you will more than likely try to cheat in a league match.

Recently we have had a couple of episodes of people cheating in non_TWL matches. Those who have had concrete evidence or have admitted to hacking publicly in posts and emails have been removed from TWL.

Some of those players as you can imagine are very upset. We have received emails informing us that they will play with multiple teams and will distribute their hacks among those teams. I do urge teams to use caution in taking on new recruits. Any team found harboring any of these banned players will be removed and the founder & captains also suspended or banned from all TWL games. If you have any doubts on a player please email an admin and we will try to validate your recruits.

To some of you, these actions may seem a bit harsh. MOH has a history of being saturated in hacks. That doesn't mean we don't attempt to clean up our ladders or our league. Taking a harsh stance will promote a league where the remaining teams are here for the fun and competition not the kiddie script games.

Finally... Ban the noobs who cheat, not the ones who "bring it to your attention." Harsh, nope... Justice...

MetallicA^

TWL Member

2005-02-25 07:50

not harsh at all, if anything this comes too late. Zero tolerance was needed years ago, good to see it goes for pubs aswell, maybe less matrix and flavas will be around...?

{Hfx}Slickdevil

Retired MOH Admin

2005-02-25 08:15

All I can say is that it is about freaking time lol. I totally agree with you Spaz and support you 100%. {Hfx} has been built on a zero tollerance basis. I have had ex members try to beat the system....ultimately they got caught and removed ASAP. Harsh? not harsh enough if you ask me. Keep up the great work. Cheaters always get caught!!! Why? They are stupid for even trying them. We all bought the game because of the challenge becoming the best....using hacks takes that all away. Good gaming people! Lets keep the fun going
check the general forums for sig regulations.
Halifax
Nova Scotia
Canada

WaFFle'Z

TWL Member

2005-02-25 12:56

Originally posted by: {Hfx}Slickdevil
{Hfx} has been built on a zero tollerance basis. I have had ex members try to beat the system....ultimately they got caught and removed ASAP

thats why you coverd up for gunner a long time ago right?

well this is good, atleast twl is makign a good effort to stop cheating/hackin in matches. it would be nice if it all went away on its own but some people just dont think about how much it ruins the game.

{Hfx}Slickdevil

Retired MOH Admin

2005-02-25 15:06

Flash, this is a serious post not intended to turn into a flame.
Post edited by {Hfx}Slickdevil at 2/25/2005 3:07:27 PM

check the general forums for sig regulations.
Halifax
Nova Scotia
Canada

{Hfx} FirstLadyBrenda

TWL Member

2005-02-25 15:12

NoS..
Seems you know it all when you were not even there when the 'Gunner' issue took place..
It was'nt even when he was in {Hfx}..
It was discovered after he was removed from our clan.
So again you were misinformed.
Please post on things you know for 'fact', not assumption.

{Hfx} FirstLadyBrenda

TWL Member

2005-02-25 15:16

Thanks Spaz for that post..
It has been long overdue..

{Hfx} has been a strong believer in playing clean.. and will continue to do so..

{Hfx} supports you Spaz and all the other admins in seeing to it that the hackers are removed and kicked to da curb

WaFFle'Z

TWL Member

2005-02-25 15:47

lol, thats right...because i dont ever know or find out anything.

m00n$h!ne

TWL Member

2005-02-25 15:52

Well it's a great idea, just have one problem with it. You say that anyone who recruits someone who was caught cheating or bragged about it will be banned? How are we going to know if they were caught or you have them on your hit list? How about the league further humiliates these guys by making the list public. I'm sure there will be enuf ppl out there who know them well enough to spot them no matter what they change their name to. Just seems logical to me. Cause i'd hate to see a good team get a new recruit and get banned because they didn't consult an admin first. That's just ludicrous.

*|S|i|C|k|*m00n$h!ne

[D12C]SpaZ

CompetitionDirectorSenior OperationsTWL Contributor

2005-02-25 15:54

You turn this into a silly argument thread and I will forum ban any who participate. Geezus people! You guys will hijack any thread just to hear yourselves argue sometimes. Stop.

[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

[D12C]SpaZ

CompetitionDirectorSenior OperationsTWL Contributor

2005-02-25 15:54

Originally posted by: m00n$h!ne
Well it's a great idea, just have one problem with it. You say that anyone who recruits someone who was caught cheating or bragged about it will be banned? How are we going to know if they were caught or you have them on your hit list? How about the league further humiliates these guys by making the list public. I'm sure there will be enuf ppl out there who know them well enough to spot them no matter what they change their name to. Just seems logical to me. Cause i'd hate to see a good team get a new recruit and get banned because they didn't consult an admin first. That's just ludicrous.

I'm already working on that.

Personal note:
Your point is understood and I agree. Another thing I find ludicrous is the recruit process or lack thereof in some teams as well. I never have understood how someone can just hand out clan tags and not do any checking on them. I have always had a strict recruiting process in D12C way before I had an admin position. My clan is a unit, group of friends, family that put in a ton of personal time into what we've become. I won't jeopardize everyone's efforts by adding in someone haphazardly from a pub server.
Post edited by [D12C]SpaZ at 2/25/2005 4:01:38 PM

[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

|3eano

TWL Member

2005-02-25 15:56

Moonshine raises an interesting point.

zeN*Maverickz

1337 Camper

2005-02-25 16:17

I agree with moonshine...make the list public! The banlist for punkbuster in other games have the guys listed publically, let's do it for MOHAA!

{Hfx}Dancjr

Teamwarfare Vet

2005-02-25 19:48

You'll find just about all the Mohaa community supporting you on this one, good job.

chek_the_wizard

TWL Member

2005-02-25 23:22

great job guys.. it's about time.

=[IRA]=RedAlert

TeamWarfare Vet

2005-02-25 23:47

Originally posted by: chek_the_wizard
great job guys.. it's about time.

zeN||*gaNgStAz*

Mafia for Life - Italian Forever

2005-02-26 11:24

get my email spaz?

slushey

Observer Corp Call of Duty/ United Offensive

2005-02-26 12:43

This is by far a good turn and i'm proud of TWL for taking this stance.

[ECA]Disturbed

TWL Member

2005-02-26 13:34

Originally posted by: [D12C]SpaZ
TWL has always had a tough stance on cheaters. We have recently solidified a site wide policy to also ban anyone caught cheating in other leagues or in public servers. As we have seen in the past as well as what we have experienced, those who cheat will do so no matter what the situation. You cheat in public you will more than likely try to cheat in a league match.

Recently we have had a couple of episodes of people cheating in non_TWL matches. Those who have had concrete evidence or have admitted to hacking publicly in posts and emails have been removed from TWL.

Some of those players as you can imagine are very upset. We have received emails informing us that they will play with multiple teams and will distribute their hacks among those teams. I do urge teams to use caution in taking on new recruits. Any team found harboring any of these banned players will be removed and the founder & captains also suspended or banned from all TWL games. If you have any doubts on a player please email an admin and we will try to validate your recruits.

To some of you, these actions may seem a bit harsh. MOH has a history of being saturated in hacks. That doesn't mean we don't attempt to clean up our ladders or our league. Taking a harsh stance will promote a league where the remaining teams are here for the fun and competition not the kiddie script games.

well what if u eliminate them from your team once u find out? do the leaders still get banned? if so i think this is a stupid rule u cant always determine who hacks i mean look at all those clans that kick most of us for hacking in there server when we dont and have never been caught hacking so are u saying if these clans make a demo of us and we turn the corner and kill someone right off your banning us?

MetallicA^

TWL Member

2005-02-26 13:40

i would say a demo of a clean player and demos of people shooting through textured windows are quite different...most people can tell the difference between them.

But disturbed has a valid point, some clans will call you a hack, force SS on you, get the ss which are clean, say ok their clean, then when you come back on thier server next time they ban you for "suspected hacks" or some ppl just spectate you for 5 seconds they get the suggestive thought that your a hacker before they even spectate you, you make a kill doesnt need to be amazing, just a normal kill, somebody walks into the room and kill someone and all the sudden HACKER!!! HACKER!!! BANNED!!!!
Post edited by MetallicA^ at 2/26/2005 1:41:45 PM

[ECA]Disturbed

TWL Member

2005-02-26 14:47

Originally posted by: MetallicA^
i would say a demo of a clean player and demos of people shooting through textured windows are quite different...most people can tell the difference between them.

well yes shooting through textured windows is obvious thats why i didnt say that i said u turn a corner and kill somone right off trust me ive spectated people when Reverend first came out the day it came out not like a week later and yes some of them looked like they where hacking so unless they bypassed it in like a couple hrs they where not hacking demos are hard to tell if they are hacking unless like u said about textured windows also demos from somone spectating u see different things then what the player actually sees therefore they are inaccurate and should be disregaurded and as for flava and matrix getting caught im not defending them they where hacking in that demo but they where quickly removed from [ECA] for it prior to that i never thought they hacked but then again i had never seen either of them shoot through windows like that my question was if somone gets caught hacking like matrix and flava and are imediatly removed from the team they are on like [ECA] did are u going to punish the leader and rest of the team for there actions? if so i think this is a bad rule i can see them getting dropped rungs and have to forfeit if caught in a match but if caught in pubs i dont think the team should be punished for there actions

\/iper

TeamWarfare Vet

2005-02-26 14:50

In CoD or any other PunkBuster game where you can OFFICIALLY elimiate any one player from league or ladder play then I could say maybe only the person caught cheating gets removed.

But since in MoH there is no offical way to totally elimiate a single hacker from a team I would agree the entire team should be punished.

A few weeks later that team can have their little hacker change names and act like they got a new recruite...
Because MoH Doesnt have any PB like guids. So all in all it would be worthless to even try and catch the cheaters.

Also, knowing the entire team will be punsished it forces the entire team to take a stronger stance on who you recruite, etc. etc.
Post edited by \/iper at 2/26/2005 2:51:18 PM

MetallicA^

TWL Member

2005-02-26 16:12

ok so say the team takes a long time to make sure thier not recruiting a hacker, thier more thorough. They still arent ever going to be capable of knowing: ok this guy is a known hacker/enemy of twl. So the team recruits them, one of the admins recognizes his IP or the recruit runs his mouth to somebody who knows who he really is, the team is punished by getting dropped on the ladder because they got screwed. That makes no sense dont punish everybody because they were being lied to and misled. Thats like if in MLB the league commissioner said near hte end of the season: oh btw, barry bonds was involved with steroids and the giants owner and manager didnt know, as a result the giants will be dropped to the bottom of thier division (if they arent there allready ) If there was a problem with a player doing something illegal there and the coaching staff or owners didnt know about it, they would punish the player not everybody else.

Same should go for here, you punish the player not people who were misled or misinformed.
Post edited by MetallicA^ at 2/26/2005 4:14:57 PM

JonnyG420

TWL Member

2005-02-26 16:26

Hoping this is the right place to post this. But I was wondering what we can do about smurfing. Taking SS of their IP's I beleive isn't validated due to DHCP or non static IP's. We've recently had a match where the clan had 4 guys in of a 7v7 and said that was probably it, then 3 all joined at once, and one even had his old tag on.

[ECA]Disturbed

TWL Member

2005-02-26 17:10

Originally posted by: MetallicA^
ok so say the team takes a long time to make sure thier not recruiting a hacker, thier more thorough. They still arent ever going to be capable of knowing: ok this guy is a known hacker/enemy of twl. So the team recruits them, one of the admins recognizes his IP or the recruit runs his mouth to somebody who knows who he really is, the team is punished by getting dropped on the ladder because they got screwed. That makes no sense dont punish everybody because they were being lied to and misled. Thats like if in MLB the league commissioner said near hte end of the season: oh btw, barry bonds was involved with steroids and the giants owner and manager didnt know, as a result the giants will be dropped to the bottom of thier division (if they arent there allready ) If there was a problem with a player doing something illegal there and the coaching staff or owners didnt know about it, they would punish the player not everybody else.

Same should go for here, you punish the player not people who were misled or misinformed.

thats my point teams shouldnt be punished for actions of one player when how could they really know yes i am for them maybe losing a few rungs and forfeiting the match if caught in a match but i dont think they should be punished if its outside of a ladder yes ban the player but dont take action against the team

[ECA]Disturbed

TWL Member

2005-02-26 17:12

Originally posted by: JonnyG420
Hoping this is the right place to post this. But I was wondering what we can do about smurfing. Taking SS of their IP's I beleive isn't validated due to DHCP or non static IP's. We've recently had a match where the clan had 4 guys in of a 7v7 and said that was probably it, then 3 all joined at once, and one even had his old tag on.

if u take a SS with the ips which i think Reverend forces one if i remember correctly and u think somoene is smurfing the admins will investigate it for u and yes they will more then likely be able to catch them load had that problem with a team we where even nice enough to ask there smurf to leave before hand and they insisted they didnt have one so the admins took care of it

MetallicA^

TWL Member

2005-02-26 18:12

Did twl ever really ban matrix and flava? I didnt follow up on what happened to them but I was pretty sure that like a month after red/east made the videos I saw matrix's name on some team's roster and the red text saying BANNED next to it or something...just wondering if the admins ever banned them and if it was because of the video or a completely unrelated event... if they werent banned, under the new rules they should definatly be...anyways enough about that, gj on the zero tolerance twl, umm anyone know a demo recorder that records what you type in console? the best evidence against matrix and flava was when east types rcon status while thier playing...I wanna be ready just in case

[ECA]Disturbed

TWL Member

2005-02-26 19:11

i beleive because it was in a pub the admins decided not to ban them but maybe im wrong not really sure

=|IA|= TheMuffinMan

Victory or Death

2005-02-27 18:22

can we ban disturbed again?

[D12C]SpaZ

CompetitionDirectorSenior OperationsTWL Contributor

2005-02-27 22:34

Caught by MW/Rev and no dice. No leeway.

Some guy sends us an email with a ss that is very inconclusive and we are not 100% convinced then no dice. No ban.

MOH admins will review every accusation and take into account all aspects first and foremost what anticheat program used. Every review will be looked at on an individual basis and all reviews will not be the same.

I am surprised at some of the comments. First of all the only thing new here is the heavy ban on pub hackers. We've banned pub hackers before in MOH. Individual games were doing this and now it is a site wide policy. All those giving praise for just now taking s stance are wrong.

Let's also be honest here on founders and hackers. Tripped and I will again look at every instance individually but c'mon. Don't try to give anyone a snow job here. We all know and have seen teams keep people banned for one reason or another. We've all seen or caught someone trying to sneak someone on their rosters then use the we didn't know as an excuse. This community has policed it's own for far too long with far too many people like Adam to now read posts from old time players saying it's unfair.

Guess what. The excuses are old. Admins will make their determinations and act from there. There are other leagues far more lenient you can cry to on how TWL booted you out when you got caught.

End of discussion.

[D12C]SpaZ
Teamwarfare Competition Director
"If there's one thing that comes across crisply and clearly in this one spoken word, it is that this guy is very responsible, inordinately busy, and not accustomed to or particularly appreciative of having people mess with him." -TWrecks

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