Pending Rules Updates

Two new rules that will likely be added to all ladders as follows.

1 - After all members of each team have entered a match who ever has rcon control of the server will be required to perform a status from console then screen capture the IP's of all the players on the server. This is to help with identifying smurfs.

2 - Because of the amount of complaints that have been recieving about Sportsmanlike conduct (lack there of) and the amount of language and taunting taking place prior, during and after matches the only two people allowed to speak in global chat during the matches will be the designated team captain. This should expedite getting matches started as well as make for a more enjoyable overall match experience. In addition, it is also advisable that teams refrain from TKing eachother or killin g the opposing team prior to the beginning of the match because this causes confusion, spamming and delays in starting the matches. Penalties for this will be left to the admins but may be as severe as forfeit of the match.

How is capturing the IPs of the players going to help with Smurfing? I can get my Cable modem IP to change to totally different IPs quite often...

Good call

ie no constant stream of canned taunts either? (I hope!!)

yes...and certain DSL customers use dynamic IPs as well. Qwest with MSN is an example of that...You can get a GENERAL idea of what a particular person's IP is, but you'll never be able to get an actual IP of those who have to work with dynamic IP-using services.

Originally posted by: TotalCarnage... the only two people allowed to speak in global chat during the matches will be the designated team captain. ...

Some teams make every member on their roster captains. Does this mean everyone can talk? Some clearifications would be needed here please. Thanks, TC.

Founder or primary match captain. Essentially 1 person.

even on cable or DSL the primary gateway numbers will be the same (ie 216.24.16.118 & 216.24.16.124 are likely the same trunk line and very easily can be the same person) Its close enough to work unless there are a large number of people very close together

it can happen though.....we played one team that were all within 40 miles of their server & actually had 2 mambers LAN'd to it.....all those IPs would be the same

We can debate how the IP can be static or not, and how it will benefit or not, or just do it. I say just do it.

As for the global chat thing, i agree 100%. There are some teams who like to talk smak. Maybe this can be implemented in the match comms as well?
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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

trust me Lonestar, I'm all for these changes.....although I dont know about applying them to match comm......we have more than one person watching things so we dont miss anything, and get notified asap....but I wouldnt doubt some clans talk smak in the match comm too

as for the canned taunts...I'm so tired of "I've seen french school girls shoot better" during games.....it gets to the point I hunt them down on the pubs, and they still do it

Im not talking about limiting the amount of people in Match comm, im talking about limiting the smak talk. Some guideline shld be placed.

Something like:
"Match comms are to be kept strictly for match server info, reschedules and other match related issues. Non related issues should be brought to the admins attention. First time you step outside match comm boundaries your warned, second time you forfeit, 3rd your brought to lowest ladder rung. Continued abuse results in banning."

Some match comms turn into flame wars, which were off the topic of servers and/or reschedules or other issues. it turned into a "last word" battle. I think if something is put in place the admins can ensure things dont get out of hand.

As for who can speak in match comms, well anyone who is a captain of course.
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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

Originally posted by: Blasney

How is capturing the IPs of the players going to help with Smurfing? I can get my Cable modem IP to change to totally different IPs quite often...

Yeah, uhmm... you can easily change it, but you would not know exactly when you are being accused of smurfing. Unless you change your IP regularly (after every match), you will be caught once accused from a screen of your IP between then and your last IP change. Good luck trying to keep up with that IP change though.

I dont know about most of you guys, but I have a very old dsl and they dont even make the card that I use anymore, but I would say my numbers change everytime I log onto it, there would be no possible way to keep track of someones number if it changes everytime they log on, not saying that I would exploit that, but I dont want some complaing that I didnt have the same IP address at the time of my match and then a few hrs later after I have relogged onto my DSL say it wasnt me. how do you get around that? Im not a computer nerd so maybe I am saying this totally wrong its just a question.


[DooM]Rift

You still have a range that your within. Same with 56k.

This is something for TWL admins to look at and if you violate some rule, they can compare it to log entries on this forum and make the real person suffer for it.

They arent asking much.
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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

I like that idea Lonestar......cut the smak talking period....match comm, ingame, whereever....its bad enough dealing with it on the pubs....let alone in matches

Smak talk is can be directly related to the Sportsmanlike Conduct rule.

i hate smack-talk myself, but the in-game taunts aren't exactly smack-talk. I see people suggesting NO ROCKETS and the reason i always see for not doing it is "it was built into the game, so it was meant to be there" The same can apply to the automatic in-game taunts such as "I've seen french school girls shoot better"

The reason is simple. Its a match. As a result the rules speak to Sportsmanlike conduct. Taunting the other team in any fashion isn't sportsmanlike. In addition people spamming the channel with taunts is annoying and poor form in matches. YOu are their to play, if you want to taunt people do it in a pub.

amen that.....there is no reason to use the canned taunts in a match...simply none

play the game win or loose.....be a good sport (no mater how much it hurts when you loose or how great you feel when you win)

I use the taunts ever now and then, like when both teams are camping. I dont see a problem with it as long as they arent overused. It is part of the game. Spamming the game with them is plain wrong tho.
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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

i just dont see how you can use the excuse "it was built into the game so we aren't making it against the rules" for one thing and not another...you should stay consistent

Part of the reason for this is because people can't seem to control themselves prior to the match starting. Its very difficult for teams to communicate with people spamming in the channel like children. I've witnessed it myself and its annoying, frustrates players and teams as well as impedes getting matches underway. I don't see why you need to taunt the other team anyway.

I see the spam point TC.

I dont see why we cant use them at all.

They can be used tactically as well. Ive used them in matches before, not spamming. Just throwing out a comment or two 4 or 5min after camping happened and im trying to gain the other persons attention.

Im not saying it is needed, nor am i disagreeing with a ruling on using them as spam.

What i disagree with is the casual use of the taunts, since they are built in the game why should TWL discipline people for using them?

Like i said, i dont like to see them used as spam, or even used to say something after you kill the enemy time after time. I disagree with the fact they cant be used in any way shape or form.

Lots of 2 on 2's end up in camping for both teams. Sometimes a taunt or two, gets the other team a little impatient and want to kill my team which works in my favor. I played a little mind game with them, they fell for it and i gained from it. All i did was throw out "i think the germans are out of real men" then followed up by "ive seen french school girls shoot better"

Got them mad and they came at me. Otherwise i cld of sat there said nothing and they wouldnt of attacked.

Also, when the other team uses taunts its to my advantage as well. It gives away their position and allows me to break their hold on a given area.

Ive never seen the taunts become a problem in match, i have seen chatting become a problem though. If we are forced to stop using taunts, its going to take away from the ambience of the game IMO, and make it less fun for me. DOnt get me wrong, ill follow the rules as they are written, i just cannot see a valid reason to not use the taunts on a casual basis.
Post edited by [UGC]Lonestar at 7/28/2002 4:14:21 AM

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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

I dont see a huge problem with the taunts, as long as they are the game taunts, I dont know if he was specific about wich taunts, I agree people should not spamm taunts, but I also agree that you should not make it a rule to say people cannot use the game taunts when its all in fun and was put into the game for a reason, but I never use em so no biggie for me

[DooM]Rift

Questions TC:

1)Has smurfing been such a problem that this is necessary? How many instances have been reported/accused of smurfs? How many actual incidents have been proven? Does the extra precaution validate the considerable expenditure in *YOUR* time to monitor each and every player in each and every match?

2) I am close friends with members of several different teams on my ladder - does this rule mean that I am not going to be able to talk to them at all? - even to tell them that they just performed well?

It's like you're trying to stop one person from cussing by cutting out the tongue of everyone who lives in their town. Punish bad behavior, I agree, but do not punish those of us who are real sportsmen.

I think the second contemplated rule, while its intentions are well-meaning, is poorly devised.

3) As far as the built-in taunts go, spamming them is uncalled for, but there are many instances in which they are a useful tool of the game. Determining the difference is dependant on the circumstances of each incident.

[420thSS] Cpl kearns

Yes, smurfing is a problem. I have removed 4 teams for it and penalized one to the bottom of the ladder. With that said, you can imagine that it happens more than people suspect.

It means that during a match, to help facilitate getting things moving and keep tensions down that everyone should only let the captains speak globally. If this was something that only happened once in a while it would be one thing. But I deal with several complaints daily for that specific problem so odds are it will become a rule.

In my opinions taunting the other team is basically pointless in match play other to antagonize players. Feel free to use the in game chat to communicate with your teammates, but the taunting is not to be used.

The idea is to make the match more enjoyable for everyone. Unfortunately when people can't police their own actions it because the responsiblity of the admins to do it for them.

Im editing this post because i wanted to make a valid response to this thread. The one made was not a good response.

Now, we didnt ban rockets nor did we ban shotties in any games. Not that i personally want to. This rule about in game taunts just diesnt sit well. For one it could bleed into other things.

People will say "ban rockets, you banned taunts why not rockets?"

Whatever happened to playing the game as it was made? I understand taunts when spammed are ruining the sportsmanlike conduct rule, but using them in a strategical way is unsportsmanlike? If i use a taunt, then the other team screenshots and sends it to you what kind of punishment is going to be dished out? What if we use it multiple times, banning?

I dont want to annoy you with this too much, but to me it doesnt make any sense to stop in game taunts. I understand some dont like them and some dont care, but it goes the same way with rockets and shotties. Some dont like them and some dont care.

I can see how using them as spam is wrong, just the same a whole clan arguing at once, 12 people dissing each other. I just cannot see how these taunts can be honestly viewed as unsportsmanlike when used for strategic purposes and not used as spam.

Nothing against anyone personally.
You said:
"In my opinions taunting the other team is basically pointless in match play other to antagonize players."

Your opinion is noted, but it is not used to only antagonize players. It can be used as a strategical tool, and also work against you. Its part of the game. Its not a MOD or an addon, it came with this game. I think rockets can be overused, OMAHA proves that. Point is that opinion changes the game if i had my way, and your opinion is about to change this game.

Other then spamming with ingame taunts, have you ever had a complaint of teams using this taunt casually? Has anyone ever emailed you saying: "we were camping and the other team used the in game taunts, we got mad and went for them and died, we want them to not have the win"....? I doubt that and if u did im sure you would laugh.

I can honestly see you trying to clean up this game and ladder a bit, and i thank you for trying, but more restrictions mean less fun and im all about fun.

I for one get pretty exhilirated when i waited 5min to see an enemy in match only to realize my taunts made them impatient and i stole the win from the other team. Im not talking about spamming, im talking 2 or 3 taunts in 5min.
Post edited by [UGC]Lonestar at 7/30/2002 12:13:45 AM

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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

Thanks for your answers TC. I should say thanks for the ladder, too, while I'm at it. This is my first team experience and I am very impressed with TWL.

You've sold me on the need to monitor smurfs.

I understand and accept, but object to the idea of denying global chat. Would that apply to players who are dead, as well, waiting for the next round? I will be punished if I ask an enemy if my bullets hit him? or laugh about how I turned around and he was in my face? or compliment him for a well executed maneuver? Wouldn't a screen shot of improper comments serve to apprehend transgressors?

For the in game taunts, you said:
(edited)

Originally posted by: TotalCarnage


In my opinions taunting the other team is basically pointless in match play other to antagonize players. Feel free to use the in game chat to communicate with your teammates, but the taunting is not to be used.

The idea is to make the match more enjoyable for everyone. Unfortunately when people can't police their own actions it because the responsiblity of the admins to do it for them.

It is not pointless - a key to combat is to make the enemy react to you, rather than you to them. Taunts are useful instruments in making an otherwise well-practiced team lose its tactical discipline.

I repeat what I said before, that spamming taunts is not right, and I would be happy to accept a rule that outlawed spamming taunts.

thanks again,

[420thSS] Cpl kearns

TC - I agree totally with the pre-game crap rule. When a match is supposed to start at 9:00pm, its supposed to start at 9:00pm cause we all have lives. There is nothing more frustrating than a Team Captain trying to go through the logistics and formalities at 9pm when the other team is running into the spawn area, killing our guys who are standing still, or spamming and clogging up the communications. When that happens, we always start late and its incredibly frustrating. "ggs" at the end of the match are the only time non-captains should be typing anything to the other team. And the only time players should SEE the other team is when we are LIVE, not before.

Note that with the top teams, gx, flare, TDR, boro, etc etc this is NEVER a problem. But with many new teams to the ladder, they haven't picked up on etiquette yet and thus a rule like this is needed.

TDB totally supports your rule #2 in this thread.

{TDB}-Widowmaker-{Maj.}

GG's after and GL's before......other than that, the "rank & file" need to hush & let the Captains ge tthe match underway....thats what we're there for

talk trash on the pubs

ACKKKKK.. no in game taunts? why stop there how bout no in game woblly leaning.. IMHO thats way more annoying anyway.. lol... I think spamming should not be allowed... but to cut out all global comments and generic in game taunts is .. well kinda silly. anyone will tell you the physcological impact of a game is HUGE.. if you can fluster the other player you can through him off his game. But more important.. your now selectively removing features that were built into the game which in essence means youv just created a global MOD for all of TWL MOH..

But hey its' TWL's house so we will respect you ask no matter what and thank you for all youve done for us..
Post edited by Sniper-X at 7/30/2002 5:10:06 PM

Using rockets is NOT unsportsmanlike.....taunting is

MOD=Modification to a game, for example Realism Mod, nade mod, you get the point. Asking that the taunting and spam in channel be reduced is not to much to ask. You are there to see who has the most skill, not who can press the chat keys the fastest.

If you use the built in chat to communicate with your team fine. I'm also not saying don't say Good Luck or Good game before and after the match. However, running around the other teams spawn TKing, chat spamming and the like isn't condusive to matches getting started on time. Play the game guys, that's what its all about.

So then its ok to casually taunt players?
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"My Schwartz is bigger then yours!"
The clan of the future
United Gamers Coalition
UGC's Planet Warfare
[UGC]Lonestar

Let me preface this by saying that I will support any final decision 100%

You wrote:
(and I snipped the first part)

Originally posted by: TotalCarnage

If you use the built in chat to communicate with your team fine. I'm also not saying don't say Good Luck or Good game before and after the match. However, running around the other teams spawn TKing, chat spamming and the like isn't condusive to matches getting started on time. Play the game guys, that's what its all about.

What you are refering to is all before a match starts, right? And the goal behind this rule is to make sure that the matches start on time and an atmosphere of courtesy and sportsmanship surround the matches. So lets rule that before the matches there will be no Spawn TKing, no chat spamming, and we have to let the captains do their business. Then allow the sportsmanlike conduct rule govern the rest of the match.

I'm sorry if I seem thickheaded, but Why Outlaw Chatting? Those of us alive will be too busy to mess with typing, and those of us who are dead may have something we want to say. Some of us may even have some nice things to say. There is already a rule about unsportsmanlike conduct that takes care of anything else.

I feel like I've said my piece, now. I hope you will reconsider your inclination towards this rule. I repeat, once more for the record, that whatever your decision may be, you will have my complete support.

[420thSS] Cpl kearns

ummm, what is smurfing?

About taunting...some taunts are used to lure players in cause you can detect where enemies are by the sound. i've had the game for all of 2 weeks, but experience from playing df2 for 3 years, i know taunting is a psychological weapon against your opponent. i know if someone taunts me, i get frustrated and don't think when i'm playing; as a result, i tend to die a lot more. in a team game, one person going rambo style cause somebody gave him a sny comment or an audio taunt only helps the other team. Spamming is one thing, taunting is another.

As any competition, what goes on in the game, stays in the game. You shake hands, say good game, and smile, and it's over. No bad blood of any sort should result from a game whether it be online gaming or any other game for that matter. Take a look at inside clips of any professional sporting event and ask yourself if taunting isn't a part of gaming. You see Sergio Garcia taunt Tiger Woods. You see one line backer taunting the quarterback before the snap. You see basketball players taunting others...Mutombo's finger! You see soccer players taunt after they score a goal by running to the corner flag and pretending to urinate on it. This list can go on and on...it's in good fun that people taunt...if they know it's just for fun and not personal.

Smurfing is signing up for more than one team (or the same team) on the same ladder, either under the same name, or a different name. It is also the act of playing for a team you are not registered to play for, under a false identity.

Playing for a team you are not registered to play for is prohibited. Playing on more than one team per ladder is also prohibited, as is registering multiple accounts for use on the same team or ladder.

Punishment for violation of this paragraph is as follows:
- The team that the smurf joined or played for most recently will be deleted.
- The smurf's original team will be dropped 33% of the ladder.
- The smurf's account(s) on, and possibly access rights to, TWL will be revoked.

ty

np

Ok guys this whole smurfing issue. I have a lil brother who lives with me and has just started to play mohaa. What if he joins a clan??? We use the same computer. I dont know if this has been asked already i didnt have time to read all the replys.