just pointing out

Originally posted by: SpaZ
Constructive threads will never be moved if they are not derailed. In fact we welcome them. We want them to be in forums. We want to promote TWL UT discussion. This is, however, TWL and we do have rules on staff to keep them to TWL and our ventures. I can discuss with Bootsy on another method of keeping the forums "clean" to try to keep constructive threads going.

not meaning to bash TWL because you can't really blame them, and other competing sites do this exact same thing, but this is why no community should EVER base themselves on the forums of a league. let's say a new ladder is opening, but this is where the UT community is. once a TWL admin sees some competition making a thread, it will be deleted immediately. if there was our own site much less would be filtered and the community could actually grow as a hole.

aka, use prounreal and unrealness instead.
Post edited by dephex at 8/31/2007 6:47:20 PM

Actually other sites don't do this... at least the two biggest don't.

don't know about unrealness but prou doesn't greet TAMers with open arms

Originally posted by: mongeau
don't know about unrealness but prou doesn't greet TAMers with open arms

theyre cleaning up prou

Originally posted by: sk``
Actually other sites don't do this... at least the two biggest don't.

CAL does it

at least in the CS:S sections

Deph:
Really? What other leagues are there!? Well, I can't say for all divs but over all they don't. BTW, you're gonna get banned now for mentioning the unholy place.

Originally posted by: sk``
Deph:
Really? What other leagues are there!? Well, I can't say for all divs but over all they don't. BTW, you're gonna get banned now for mentioning the unholy place.

any posting of purepressure, fragstars, etc that don't have something like a frag video or promotional video are deleted. i think CGESA related stuff was removed as well.

the only things they do allow is CEVO (they are pretty much forced to) and ESEA.

Why would they be forced to allow CEVO?

Originally posted by: sk``
Why would they be forced to allow CEVO?

it's so widely known already that you can't really block out people posting others CEVO records and such, so you kind of just have to allow it.

Technically we don't have to allow it. TWL has forums for TWL. The site owners put money out of pocket as well as advertising dollars to keep this site (TWL) free to play for all. It is therefor our rite to keep bandwidth to TWL discussions. We do allow talk and mention of fan sites but not other leagues. I really don't see why you would come to TWL forums to talk other leagues anyway. They have their own forums to keep their own discussions. BTW, CAL has absolutely kept TWL discussions away from certain forums. Their forum rules and moderation differ from game to game, staff to staff similar to what we do.

So bottom line is that staff will allow mention of fan sites for community discussion purposes. Those fansites that decide to openly bash us can be blocked from our forums since they are deemed counterproductive to our purpose. Discussion of other leagues will also be pruned according to admin discretion since they too are considered counterproductive and/or competitive of TWL. I say at admin's discretion because there may be some talks that would be for the benefit or change of TWL and the UT staff can make that determination.

Fact of the matter is that if things are kept constructive or about TWL directly then there would be no reason for the staff to moderate them. When they are taken off base or start promoting competition then they will be.

SpaZ:
Your statement doesn't suggest the banning and slaps you see in UT is within TWL's guidelines for discussing other leagues, much less merely mentioning then. TWL admins permanently banned Cookies for saying no less than what Dephex has in this thread... one is banned, one isn't. Difference? One works at CAL.

For UT at the unholy place (see above) and DoDS, which I've worked in, there's no limit on talking about other league. For me, this is belief that the promotion of more comp in many places gives rise to better comp. Sheltering minds does the opposite.

1 Dephex has gotten a vacation though not for this thread.
2 Cookies has gotten several vacations far more than the standard 3 that earns a person a ban. He has been given every opportunity to follow our rules and failed.
3 It matters not what is done at the "unholy place" this is TWL we have our own rules and procedures for forum moderation.

Mong:
Did it ever cross your mind that the near constant unrest in your community may be a sign your rules and the adherences of isn't as wise a move as you think?

Though, historically, you've shown a massive disregard for logic or facts with a keen sense to merely insert your own imagination.

sofa message me on xfire when you get the chance



- dephex

Originally posted by: sk``
Mong:
Did it ever cross your mind that the near constant unrest in your community may be a sign your rules and the adherences of isn't as wise a move as you think?

Though, historically, you've shown a massive disregard for logic or facts with a keen sense to merely insert your own imagination.

nope

SK
You got it wrong, it is not so much the rules at TWL at cause issues on the forums. It is certain people that like to start shit, then lock the threads when people talk back to them. Not to name name's or anything, but it was FAR better before this person joined. Hypocritical punk.

Originally posted by: sk``
Though, historically, you've shown a massive disregard for logic or facts with a keen sense to merely insert your own imagination.

True though.
Post edited by {pdX}Lostsoul at 9/2/2007 9:20:57 PM

Mong-e-poo = hypocritical bitch

Originally posted by: sk``
SpaZ:
Your statement doesn't suggest the banning and slaps you see in UT is within TWL's guidelines for discussing other leagues, much less merely mentioning then. TWL admins permanently banned Cookies for saying no less than what Dephex has in this thread... one is banned, one isn't. Difference? One works at CAL.

For UT at the unholy place (see above) and DoDS, which I've worked in, there's no limit on talking about other league. For me, this is belief that the promotion of more comp in many places gives rise to better comp. Sheltering minds does the opposite.

What you may or may not see are the emails that are sent in addition to the forum posts and posted forum guidelines. Senior staff gets copied on most or we are brought up to date on them as they happen.

I happen to play in other leagues and I have absolutely been told that if I mention the name I go by in TWL and promote my league that I will be forum banned. It is a big league that has many other games and their staff also play here. In fact the reason I play under another name in other leagues is so that no TWL issues are brought into their forums sidetracking their discussions. It is a matter of respect and courtesy. Before it is mentioned: No, I have not taken part in the same approach with anyone I know to be staff in other leagues. I have always been consistent with public posts.

Each league can put into place any rule they wish. It is not my part nor concern what other leagues do big or small. We are not sheltering minds as you suggest. That statement, in my opinion, is an extremist statement. We are not looking toward extremes. We are concerned with what happens within our walls. As I stated in other posts, we have allowed CONSTRUCTIVE conversation. As you can already see conversation is not always constructive. Who was it that went out of their way to start naming other leagues in this thread knowing full well the reaction of TWL staff? I sometimes wonder who's interest is in mind when some people post. Is it their own satisfaction to pester and instigate? Do they honestly believe that their efforts are helpful to the world game community as they hint to? Some do. Some just like to stir trouble.

In any event there is a difference between global community discussion and league specific discussion. Global discussion can be argued successfully to be helpful to the game itself. League specific discussion is helpful to that league specifically. The league we are specific with here is TWL.

With that I will turn over active participation in this discussion to UT staff. These posts were meant to inform and not neccesarily spark debate but I'm glad to see some people taking a genuine interest in matters even if they differ from ours.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation in keeping constructive conversations and threads unblocked.

Originally posted by: {pdX}Lostsoul
SK
You got it wrong, it is not so much the rules at TWL at cause issues on the forums. It is certain people that like to start shit, then lock the threads when people talk back to them. Not to name name's or anything, but it was FAR better before this person joined. Hypocritical punk.

Originally posted by: sk``
Though, historically, you've shown a massive disregard for logic or facts with a keen sense to merely insert your own imagination.

True though.

Wow so one person makes all the malcontents act the way that they do? I’d like to meet this person.

Of course they silence the competition...This is a business after all. Think about the ads you have seen on here. Microsoft and Kawasaki for starters. They are big companies that pay big money(which I am sure more than pays for the hosting).

When UNICEF starts hosting a gaming site with ladders and sanctioned servers with proprietary AC programs then maybe you will find your gaming eutopia. (Remember Joe Dirt....feel free to laugh now)

Originally posted by: mongeau

Originally posted by: {pdX}Lostsoul
SK
You got it wrong, it is not so much the rules at TWL at cause issues on the forums. It is certain people that like to start shit, then lock the threads when people talk back to them. Not to name name's or anything, but it was FAR better before this person joined. Hypocritical punk.

Originally posted by: sk``
Though, historically, you've shown a massive disregard for logic or facts with a keen sense to merely insert your own imagination.

True though.

Wow so one person makes all the malcontents act the way that they do? I’d like to meet this person.

Doesn't take much to push the "malcontents", as you call them, over the edge.

It does takes great skill and effort to piss off an entire community and have them hate you enough to email TWL, all within one page of a thread. You certainly have the will power to do such a thing.
Post edited by {pdX}Lostsoul at 9/3/2007 12:21:47 PM

Mong-e-poo = hypocritical bitch

i don't see the big deal. yeah i wouldn't like ppl advertising their shit at my place of business either.


but on the other hand, i'm pretty sure everyone knows about cal and twl. its just a matter of preference since cal's a league that plays every thursday for a certain period of time, then has a break after a team wins. or twl, where you make your own dates and actually hold a standing position until you lose. also, both places have different ppl banned.

i don't like the idea of a set date every week since my life does not permit me to make that date.


o and as for cookies...hes caused a LOT of trouble here. i don't see why the "last straw" has to be something huge. why does everyone think like this? if the kid has been suspended 10000 times (which he has) then ANYTHING SMALL should be enough to ban him.
Post edited by Hab1b1 at 9/3/2007 12:39:11 PM