Spawngrenades

Hi Guys

Can we change the TWL TDM ladders rules to keep in line with tournaments and have you spawn with 1 grenade?

Thanks
Peter

i highly doubt that will happen... you gotta remember man TWL is not just for your HARDCORE DMers... we also cater to the noobs... which actually out number the hardcore players... and the noobs love their grenades...

I'm a noob!


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero. -Horace
[Ci]Scumgrief

If TWL was "catering to the noobs" the TDM 4v4 ladder would be wep stay on and not have friendly fire.

I would support a spawngrenades=1 rule.. anything to keep the ruleset here as close to the standard rules of competitive play as possible.

What's the point of that rule, if I may ask? Why do you want to make people who've just spawned even more vulnerable to being spawnraped? (not you specifically, just asking as to the logic behind the rule)

Originally posted by: Warhead_
What's the point of that rule, if I may ask? Why do you want to make people who've just spawned even more vulnerable to being spawnraped? (not you specifically, just asking as to the logic behind the rule)

Warhead_ is right... i dont think anyone wants to be spawn raped more than they already are...

spawngrenades=1 is a good rule. i initially despised it, but have come to love it. the idea behind the rule stems from the fact that each grenade causes 59 pts of damage. x4 = 236 pts of damage. it makes the AR ammo pickups on maps valuable resources, and forces people to AIM their grenade rather than just dumping 4. i guess more importantly, it encourages teams to focus on weapon pickup strategies and weapon tossing to teamates. in short, it encourages teamwork and decreases spam.
Post edited by chu::LOB:: at 3/2/2005 4:35:11 PM

I do support the grenade reduction. I would suggest 2 though. 4 imo is too much. Sucks when you kill someone and as soon as they spawn the chuck grenades all over the map.

Can't speak for all of 404 but personally I agree. Less grenades is better (1 or 2)

For those of you that don't read GameAmp forums, there's been a discussion on spawngrenades mutator here: http://ut2004.gameamp.com/forum/showTopic/5540.php

Gives you a bit of insight on where this mutator is coming from & why people have been pushing for it lately. It's not too bad once you get used to it, but IMHO, the default 4 is just as good.


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero. -Horace
[Ci]Scumgrief

Originally posted by: [Ci]Scumgrief
For those of you that don't read GameAmp forums, there's been a discussion on spawngrenades mutator here: http://ut2004.gameamp.com/forum/showTopic/5540.php

Gives you a bit of insight on where this mutator is coming from & why people have been pushing for it lately. It's not too bad once you get used to it, but IMHO, the default 4 is just as good.

Thanks for the link, Scum - interesting reading, if for no other reason than half the people posting are unfamiliar with civilized discussion.

I don't understand the desire for the "pro" players here to want to do everything the Europeans are doing. If Europe adopts a new mutator or setting, suddenly everyone says "it's the STANDARD". Different strokes for different folks... if Europeans started playing with a mutator that eliminated the Assault Rifle altogether, would we see everyone here say "omg it's teh STANDARD to only have a shield gun now!!"? It blows my mind that people are actually complaining about the ASSAULT RIFLE being overpowered.

In fairness, I'm not as good as some of those guys posting, and maybe they're simply looking to take their game to the next level, and I can respect that. If they want to only have one grenade, let them - but I don't like this idea of it being force-fed to the rest of us who like having a chance in hell to make spawnrapists think twice. or at least work for their rape.

Just my thoughts.

Since a link was posted to a site I staff I figured I should clear some things up

First off, it wasn't changed for Euros, it was changed because (apart from NA) it was the world standard, and the top teams here had been scrimming it that way for a while.

Also the GGL americup, is spawn nades = 1 (and obviously set their servers to that, so it's forcing it's way into the game either way), and I am fairly sure ESWC will be as well.

The teams involved in GGL are obviously only going to scrim spawn nades = 1, and all the teams that have played in OLB where which we forced spawn nades = 1 into, have loved it.

I realize that has no bearing on TWL or the choice the admins here make. However it is worth looking at (anybody remember amp off for 1v1 after WCG? I think this is going to end up the same way)

These are facts
Post edited by lr-Saito at 3/4/2005 9:56:26 AM

I agree with Warhead 100%.

The assault rifle is fine the way it is.

Someone who has just spawned is already vulnerable without having to cripple them further. What's next? Spawn with 20 bullets only because otherwise the AR can cause too much damage?

I don't play in Europe so it's not standard for me. If it is actually some kind of "pro standard" other than just a European favorite, then I am not pro and have never claimed to be; but I don't think the AR needs to be weakened, honestly....

My $0.02
Post edited by JamesCN at 3/3/2005 12:43:16 PM

Dudes. If friendly fire is on then spitting out 3-4 grenades and defending yourself, without killing anyone but your would-be assailant, most likely defending yourself against a guy with a plethora of weapons (or 2 guys) sounds good to me. I think it might be a good idea for UT2K6 or whatever is next. It's hard enough finding any two servers with the same damn rule set in place and will just further fracture the amount of people playing in general. It's like avoiding WS on servers; it cuts down your options LEAVE THE GAME ALONE! Damn you.... I love you LOB, you know I do! Just leave the grenades alone. Just leave the grenades alone.
Post edited by YO!»WigPeeler at 3/3/2005 4:12:17 PM

hehe, this idea didnt start from LOB. We just suggesting that TWL consider the mutator since its being accepted in all the areas saito has already listed.

Bats is right, we were just suggesting that to TWL only because that's where most leauges, ladders and tourney's are headed if not there already. As Saito said the facts are the facts. If clan's were soley interested in just doing informal scrims for fun they would probably never join a ladder. As we all know joining a ladder is work and requires a certain level of commitment. A ladder after all is where you'll likely find most clans with a stronger desire to compete at higher levels. Even members you call "noobs" will want to get better, and in doing so will logically try and adopt and practive at more competitive settings... whether they agree with them or not. A good example of that was TTM and now UT Comp. Nothing started a flaming war more than discussing brightskins but now they are a universal standard.
Post edited by MeatB^G::LOB:: at 3/4/2005 8:06:04 AM

Spawn Granades 1 is default everywhere but NA

For myself I find the mutator is not about crippling the spawner but further encouraging teamwork and minimizing random kills/damage. Now I try to hook up with a teammate ASAP who will give me a weapon or at the least another AR. I can still be effective with 1 or 2 well placed grenades and the AR primary.

Would a vote on this be appropriate? One per team currently on the ladder?
Post edited by waXed at 3/4/2005 11:48:24 AM

I likes 1 grenade
[ecc. 3.11]

Originally posted by: Warhead_
In fairness, I'm not as good as some of those guys posting, and maybe they're simply looking to take their game to the next level, and I can respect that. If they want to only have one grenade, let them - but I don't like this idea of it being force-fed to the rest of us who like having a chance in hell to make spawnrapists think twice. or at least work for their rape.

Just my thoughts.

I have to agree with this. It may sit fine with the top players, but as a average at best player, I would prefer a little more of a chance than just 1 grenade.

+15 for Warhead, +15 for James.

I fail to understand why this has to be mandatory. I don't care what the WCG does, but this isn't the WCG, folks. As Sweet Tooth said, look at the audience, there's a wide range of ability here. Personally I'm impartial to the number of grenades one starts with, but honestly there is a huge difference between here and the WCG in terms of player caliber, besides someone talked about brightskins and really I think it comes down to how much certain changes affect the game. Brightskins is one thing, but spawngrenades is another. How much more is the so-called pro community wanting to change everything and an even more important question, how fast?

Maybe if there is a DM tournament or whatever, then maybe we could implement that rule, but it's completely unnecessary here, IMO.

Just my opinion.