This just in.....

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TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 16:48

Tribes arena as we know it is fooked. Smurfing sux. i agree. Is shutting down the ladder entirely the answer? Its apparent that Janus has all the info on all the smurfs. (says the all might admin) There will always be smurfs. My suggestion. Since your so aware of who the smurfs are. KICK THEM! There is NO need to close an entire ladder. YOU dont even play arena. We need a new admin so damn bad its not even funny. sadest thing is. this thread will be locked or removed simply because i disagree with janus's attempt at being an admin. Nuff f'in said.

Vlasic

Sr. Operations ManagerQuality Control

2003-02-18 16:54

Are you volunteering?

Milk-Man

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 17:09

Vlassic I would be more than happy to volunteer as arena admin.

Haplo

Slacker

2003-02-18 17:37

remember though milkman, you'll be 'middle management', which means you have to enforce the rules that 'upper management' tell you to enfore.

Janus is in 'upper management'.

Daerithus

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 17:59

I'd vote for you Milk.

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 18:01

*writes Milk-Man/Simple on a voting Ballot and checks the box*

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 18:16

Originally posted by: Haplo

remember though milkman, you'll be 'middle management', which means you have to enforce the rules that 'upper management' tell you to enfore.

Janus is in 'upper management'.

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 18:21

Originally posted by: Milk-Man

Tribes arena as we know it is fooked. Smurfing sux. i agree. Is shutting down the ladder entirely the answer? Its apparent that Janus has all the info on all the smurfs. (says the all might admin) There will always be smurfs. My suggestion. Since your so aware of who the smurfs are. KICK THEM! There is NO need to close an entire ladder. YOU dont even play arena. We need a new admin so damn bad its not even funny. sadest thing is. this thread will be locked or removed simply because i disagree with janus's attempt at being an admin. Nuff f'in said.

I am not the ladder admin I am the sysadmin. Shadowfox who is just fine for the job is the ladder admin.
Post edited by Janus at 2/18/2003 6:22:02 PM

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 18:25

Assuming ShadowFox is overall Tribes Admin, might be helpful to have an Admin for the Tribes Arena ladder, if not an admin for each Tribes ladder...

Someone who knows the ladder well and plays that particular mod, who can keep a clear head and doesn't lose it over a flame.

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 18:26

Originally posted by: DivineOne

Assuming ShadowFox is overall Tribes Admin, might be helpful to have an Admin for the Tribes Arena ladder, if not an admin for each Tribes ladder...

Someone who knows the ladder well and plays that particular mod, who can keep a clear head and doesn't lose it over a flame.

The only one losing here is the community. YOu seem level headed enough....yet your fellow players are ruining it for all. A new ladder with some limitations is up. If people can't follow the rules........it will go away. People also need to realize having a smurf on your team is justification for removal of your team. Removing enough teams will close the ladder as well.

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

Lizard

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 18:41

How much time per week do we talk about in admin'ing this ladder. I've been around Arena for... a while. I may be able to help. And would gladly do so.

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 18:43

Wow, Liz is still around, I'd support him or Milk anyday. Preferably Liz, he HAS been around a while... I have too, and I know he is level-headed on just about anything.

DivineOne
Fomerly DesertWind

^IoN^ Raid

"Kills Cappers Dead!"

2003-02-18 18:44

Milk and Liz have done numerous things to keep the T1 Arena community alive and happy, Milk's got my support for admin.

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 18:45

Hi Raid! *wavey smiley thingy* Forgot how to do it.

BrokenWear

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 18:47

id admin the ladder without being asked twice... its just crazy... how many times i've been fucked out of a top 5 position during TWL's run as a gaming ladder.

Daerithus

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 18:49

I vote for Liz and Milk... and I also vote to have a vote taken away from Divine if he gets a vote hehehe. j/k

P.S. hi Liz, Div, Milky and Raid

Daerithus

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 18:50

hey broken

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 18:50

DAER H8TES ME!!!! *runs crying*

BrokenWear

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 18:51

Originally posted by: Daerithus

hey broken

:wave: hello

Vlasic

Sr. Operations ManagerQuality Control

2003-02-18 18:51

uuhhh...this isn't a vote.

There's no need for another admin.

Daerithus

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 18:53

It's ok Div. I was just kidding.

Well, Vlasic... if maybe down the road there is a voting democratic forum site thingy.. then I wanna have the assurance that they'll have my votes. hehe

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 18:54

If that's your choice, I'll go w/ it I guess.
Just saying though, it might actually help to have another one...

Milk-Man

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 19:18

Janus:

Shadowfox who is just fine for the job is the ladder admin.

Vlasic:

There's no need for another admin.

Lizard:

Please read:

Hazard : Tribes Arena -- new maps for competition
http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=1&threadid=24848

Everything passed, community got involved. Nothing ever happened

Fine for the job? dx, rd, desert of death, blatside and no more maps.. Admins ignore you. ctf community happy? Well i understand arena is a far smaller community than ctf, but i do think we deserve a decent admin, and im sorry but shadofox is um a far cry. CTF community would be pissed. And for u to say she is doing "fine"........."fine" sux, and i dont think youd settle for "fine" in the ctf community. Bah new admin please vgt.

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 19:21

I know I said I'd have to go along w/ Vlasic's decision, I do agree w/ Milk... not that ShadowFox isn't doing her job, its just that even Shadow isn't responding fast and efficiently to Arena players, and a singled admin for Arena could do the job much better if the admin was dependable...

DivineOne

TWL Member

2003-02-18 19:23

Originally posted by: Daerithus

It's ok Div. I was just kidding.

Well, Vlasic... if maybe down the road there is a voting democratic forum site thingy.. then I wanna have the assurance that they'll have my votes. hehe

Haha Daer!

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 19:23

that was an official vote. That was a feel for possibly adding a vote.

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 19:24

Originally posted by: BrokenWear

id admin the ladder without being asked twice... its just crazy... how many times i've been fucked out of a top 5 position during TWL's run as a gaming ladder.

Comming fomr a person who's team is #1 now?? Rofl yeah I would say you got the royal shaft bud

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

BrokenWear

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 19:25

i disagree with even being in #1... if i didnt take it from playing it, i didnt earn it...

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 19:28

Just going off what you said yourself earlier. Bottom line is this. WE can continue to argue and argue and the ladder will stay closed. SIMPLE. Or you guys can get the teams on the ladder and get back to business. Right now I see 5 teams. Got a bit to go. Don't think I am opening it up for 5 teams.

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

Daerithus

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 19:42

How many do we have to have before it's ok janus?

Janus

Ops ManagerAdmin ServicesTWL Contributor

2003-02-18 20:20

I would be ok with 10 or 11

Janus
Teamwarfare Operations Manager - Admin Services

Daerithus

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-18 21:57

k, [5lC] back in business w00t

Haplo

Slacker

2003-02-19 01:01

Hrm, read up on the site news postings, Shadowfox only recently came into being the Tribes Admin. I've only known her for that short length of time and she seems very level headed and very easy to work with.

Why not those with Arena experience talk to her, make suggestions, and constructively point out the weaknesses/strengths that the current Arena Ladders have.

So far she has shown the ability to admin these ladders without a self serving bias. That makes a good admin. Not someone out to make a name for themself or a chip on their shoulder.

I don't know TWL's internal procedure on modifying the ladders, but I'm pretty sure it'd start with the input they recieve from their front line admins.

Now that you know who your front line admin is, go spam her in IRC or her TWL email addy.

ManiacMark

TeamWarfare Vet

2003-02-19 14:59

I really have no problem with what happened, a little extreme if you ask me but for the admins cause they give us thier time to admin these ladders and it aint an easy job.

What bugs me though in the now closed thread about the 5v5 smurfing all sorts of admin bashing going on to which the admins bashed back. They said though something like give us something to work with, give us constructive ideas, flaming will get you no where. however really they only replied to the flames. I made what i thought, and haplo liked it too, was a fairly decent suggestion that may help both sides of the arguement. Did i get any acknowledgement from the admins....Nope. they ask for constructive stuff then ignore it. Maybe they read it and said bah, that sucks but at least an acknowledgement would be nice.

So here it is again, you guys tell me what you think.

"ok, not that i really care about arena, but i sorta do think smurfing should be allowed to some point. As i have mentioned before, some ppl have no RL and want to play as much as they can, why not join 2 teams. Admins answer: join a team on another ladder or league. But nowadays in the quickly dieing world of T1 there is not that many options available.

So I propose, In order to keep this dieing community alive we allow each TWL member to be allowed to join a maximum 2 (maybe 3 :/ ) teams on the same ladder. It will be known that they play for 2 teams by their profile and maybe flag them like in T2 that one of thier identities is an alias. Anyone who still does the sneaky type of smurfing can be banned but at least a few more teams may be able to have enough ppl to still be competitive. Each team can decide if they want "alias's" playing for them but at least it's out in the open.

Just and idea. Flame away if needed"

|cTa|Maniac Mark
Captain
Canadian Tribal Assassins
irc.dynamix.com #cta

giGGLer

TWL Member

2003-02-19 15:57

shut off the t.v and peel off those sunday gloves,
and I'll stain the clean that you've been counting,
old mr. fletcher passed by here today,
after 40 years of toil he just up and walked away,
fantastic the panic that showed in his eyes,
he shrugged when I asked him about it,
he said "young man pay heed, you listen well to what I say,
now there comes a time for a man to walk away",

walk away, I'll be a parade,
and I'll be determined that no one shall dissuade on my way,
I'll sure take some time to burn all the bridges that I'm leaving behind,

he passed by again and he was shivering from the cold,
I'm not sure but I think that he was trying,
he told me about the weather and something old to pay,
"but tomorrow", he said, "I'm gonna surely walk away"

^IoN^ Raid

"Kills Cappers Dead!"

2003-02-19 16:39

Seems to me that everyone who actually PLAYS arena wants a new admin? ...enough said I dont wanna get flamed, bye...

boxcar

willie

2003-02-19 17:59

yea, shadowfox is a good admin and all but just a question does she even play arena? The ctf comunity gets alot of attention becuz they are big but other than hazard telling us to fix maps and janus saying to clear smurfs the arena community is ignored. not trying to start a fight or say anything to make anyone mad but maybe an arena admin would do some god :/

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Vlasic

Sr. Operations ManagerQuality Control

2003-02-19 18:08

Originally posted by: giGGLer

shut off the t.v and peel off those sunday gloves,
and I'll stain the clean that you've been counting,
old mr. fletcher passed by here today,
after 40 years of toil he just up and walked away,
fantastic the panic that showed in his eyes,
he shrugged when I asked him about it,
he said "young man pay heed, you listen well to what I say,
now there comes a time for a man to walk away",

walk away, I'll be a parade,
and I'll be determined that no one shall dissuade on my way,
I'll sure take some time to burn all the bridges that I'm leaving behind,

he passed by again and he was shivering from the cold,
I'm not sure but I think that he was trying,
he told me about the weather and something old to pay,
"but tomorrow", he said, "I'm gonna surely walk away"

Bad Religion owns everybody on this site.

Good call.

Vlasic

Sr. Operations ManagerQuality Control

2003-02-19 18:09

Originally posted by: boxcar

yea, shadowfox is a good admin and all but just a question does she even play arena? The ctf comunity gets alot of attention becuz they are big but other than hazard telling us to fix maps and janus saying to clear smurfs the arena community is ignored. not trying to start a fight or say anything to make anyone mad but maybe an arena admin would do some god :/

Ironically enough, the CTF community doesn't want an admin that plays CTF.

Go figure!

Shadowfox

Tribes Admin

2003-02-19 18:10

hehe, miss one day of surfing the forums and I missed alot

Maniacmark--I understand what you're saying about allowing limited smurfing. Janus or vlasic (cant remember which one) actually did respond to you though. The problem with that idea is that it cannot be instated for one ladder alone. The no smurfing rule is not just for Tribes Arena... it covers every ladder in every game in all of Teamwarfare. Basically, the physical system of internal function and administration for the entire site cannot be altered to suit the needs of one ladder. There is alot of structural "stuff" that you do not see. Without rewriting the entire code structure of the site there is no way to accomodate a limited smurfing system. Beyond that, the simple fact is that smurfing is inherantly against the rules by which Teamwarfare was founded.

Milk-man.. in response to a few things you said. Janus came up front and said "here is the issue, please fix it yourselves or I will fix it for you". No, shutting down the ladder is not the answer. But if you understand how many people were breaking the rules of the ladder, you'd understand why he shut it down (early). People were basically in support of smurfing! So if I understand what went on correctly, Janus probably thought: "okay, I have a community of arena players here.. there is rampant smurfing on the ladders.. in response to my post about cleaning the ladders up, I met only SUPPORT for smurfing.. something needs to change".

I personally would have no problem bringing on a tribes arena admin--or even better just an advisor/representative of the arena community that can discuss with me through reason and logical analysis the problems and potential solutions for this ladder. HOWEVER! What some of you do not realize is that bringing on a Tribes arena admin is far from an "out".. that admin would have to adhere to the same written rules on the site as I (and janus and vlasic) do. If the admin does not follow those rules, then he/she will not be adminning... and I see no gain for the community.

I am very open to suggestions, just email me or pm me in IRC anytime. I hope we can arrive at a compromise that satisfies both parties.